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A character in my world has a Tattoo called Flash of Insight. It allows him to:
Flash of Insight (Su)
Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures, gaining insight that allows it to select the exact result of one die roll before the roll is made. This effect can alter an action taken by the cyclops only, and cannot be applied to the rolls of others.
He also has a vorpal weapon.
He has been using this to one-shot kill opponents, such a a CR 20 devil.
He says he can choose to roll a "20" on the first hit then simply roll to confirm the critical. As a high level character himself with a large BAB, he only misses on a 1-5 mostly.
My question is: does the Flash of Insight for the tattoo allow him to roll a "natural 20" that needs to be used for the vorpal to work?
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Yes, it does. The player is using his abilities correctly.
I would say no, it is not a natural 20. A natural 20 is when a d20 is rolled and a 20 is the result.
Yes, that works as intended.
(Just add in some fortification armour or throw dispel magic around or use 'immune to critical hits' enemies)
I would say no, it is not a natural 20. A natural 20 is when a d20 is rolled and a 20 is the result.
As CrystalSpellblade mentions, it's not a "natural 20" unless it is rolled. Although the better question would be: Why does he have this tattoo in the first place? That sort of ability should have never been given to the player to begin with.
As a GM you should have known not to give a player such a magical item, whether its a magical tattoo or a crafted wondrous items. Some items just aren't suitable for players. In any event, as a GM its within your right to say it simply doesn't work. I would. I wouldn't have every allowed him the item in the first place, but even if I had I still wouldn't allow it to combine with Vorpal.
Edit: If you're willing to be mean and your player refuses to give up this ability simply use the same combination against him in a surprise round and kill the character. If a player doesn't understand with something is incredibly unbalanced there isn't much you can do. Do offer after killing him to go back in time and remove the event from ever happening if he agrees to get rid of the tattoo.
A character in my world has a Tattoo called Flash of Insight. It allows him to:
Flash of Insight (Su)
Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures, gaining insight that allows it to select the exact result of one die roll before the roll is made. This effect can alter an action taken by the cyclops only, and cannot be applied to the rolls of others.
He also has a vorpal weapon.
He has been using this to one-shot kill opponents, such a a CR 20 devil.
He says he can choose to roll a "20" on the first hit then simply roll to confirm the critical. As a high level character himself with a large BAB, he only misses on a 1-5 mostly.
My question is: does the Flash of Insight for the tattoo allow him to roll a "natural 20" that needs to be used for the vorpal to work?
Yes the ability(from the cyclops) works like that, but not all abilities are for players to have even if they sound cool. Sometimes the rule of cool needs to be countered by balance.
I know players hate having things taken away, but you need to try to diplomatically get rid of that tattoo if possible. Even if it means asking explaining the consequence of an NPC getting the same tattoo.
If that fails just take it away.
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If you do remove it, make sure to either reimbuse the player, or give him something to replace it so that there's no hard feelings. It's not his fault he got a broken item, it's yours. So, no need to punish him for your mistake. Explain that it's too abusive, but you're willing to replace it with something of equal value.
Or you could fight fire with fire: Have a group of vorpal-sword-wielding cyclopes (preferably with immunity to vorpal themselves) show up on his doorstep :)
[disclaimer]No, don't actually do that! Use Odraude's advice instead.[/disclaimer]
how did he come by the vorpal weapon?
If he is level 15 or higher they are not that hard to get. Even if there are none in town he could have had one crafted.
This isn't in any way an auto-decapitate. I did some digging and found this particular tattoo. It is called "Eye of Steropeps" and it is listed on page 25 of 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming's book "Inkantations - A Sourcebook of Tattoo Magic & Body Art". When you say it's a one-shot kill, consider the following:
1) Flash of Insight per the tattoo listing, as well as the actual Core ability listing, can only be used once per day. That means it will only possibly succeed on one creature or enemy that is susceptible to critical hits and/or has a head.
2) The PC has to roll a higher initiative than the enemy so he/she can attack first.
3) The PC has to move to the enemy and possibly be subject to one or more attacks of opportunity.
4) The PC must roll to confirm the critical.
The PC has to accomplish 3 goals in order to successfully use Flash of Insight to decapitate one enemy.
It sounds to me that if the player can do this every time, his dice are loaded or his character is built really well. I don't see why a player should be punished for doing things that are within the rules. It's a rather cleaver combination.
This also could allow this kind of opportunity..
"The Perfect Strike ability for the Weapon Adept Monk. At 10th level, the Monk can roll to attack THREE TIMES and choose the best result and confirm a critical with the same set of rolls.
2)Using Hero Points to re-roll."
Keep in mind that there are the options of Fortification, being incorporeal, not having a head to sever, not needing a head to continue fighting, being immune to critical hits, being undead, being a vampire, or being a construct.
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As a GM you should have known not to give a player such a magical item, whether its a magical tattoo or a crafted wondrous items. Some items just aren't suitable for players.
I didn't "give it" to the players, he purchased the item with his money. He is level 21 and can craft, but can't craft tattoos. He has many connections in the game as well as rogue Black Market talent, so he is able to get any wondrous item (except artifacts) within a reasonable period of time.
That's why I allowed the wondrous tattoo, using the 3rd party book Inkantations. I'm not a big fan of tattoo magic myself, preferring to stick to those in Core, much like I am with wondrous items. But if he is able to craft, which he is, virtually anything, why not allow him, per rules, to make a +10 Headband of Mental Superiority?
If he had Craft Tattoo, why not allow him to make the tattoo giving him Flask of Insight? As I said, I am not a big fan of the 3rd party stuff (and may have to limit 3rd party from now on) but a lot of 3rd party things are fun and interesting. Obviously, having a CR 20 devil killed in one shot isn't fun for a GM, though.
If a crafter can make a magical item and sell it, why can't a tattoo be sold? This is where I was coming from from he obtained it.
-blackbloodtroll- Of course, it would seem to reason that if he can kill easily such high level monsters, why would I bother to GM? If I'm not having fun, it ain't worth it. I can seek to balance it out, though- by giving him, as mentioned, enemies with add-ons, like fortification, or even an enemy with the same tattoo and sword. But this would be sort of powergaming and metagaming on the GM's part...
-Icast- he purchsed the Vorpal sword.
-Pauper-
In the case of the character, it IS pretty much an auto-decapitate. With a BAB of +31, the character can almost hit any creature with a head. NO SAVE...
Going by the bestiary, there are 2,099 monsters that could be hit with AC 32 unless the character rolls a 1 on the critical confirmation hit.
There are only 2,297 creatures listed on the database. That means a use of the Flash of Insight and NOT rolling a 1 on the confirmation basically auto-kills 91% of all creatures listed!!!! The highest AC creature listed is something called a Pizuzu at AC 49.
Take a look at some iconic high level creatures:
Great Wyrm Red Dragon AC 39 Dead on a confirmation roll of 8+
Pit Fiend AC 38 Dead on a confirmation roll of 7+
Tor Linnorm AC 37 Dead on a confirmation roll of 6+
Not many creatures a character encounters will be able to do anything whatsoever.
Pointing out that it can only be used once per day is a red herring- who cares. Typically there is only 1 encounter per day anyway, and if you kill the big bad boss, of which there are usually just one, the encounter is over anyway. Plus, most creatures players encounter have heads, so that is moot. Unless the GM powergames and only has the character face those without a head, or ads 2 or more big bad bosses to negate the effect of vorpal...
Higher initiative doesn't matter at all since the enemy doesn't have a one-shot kill ability. All the player would have to do is move in, use flash, vorpal, dead. Initiative order has no bearing in this case.
Attacks of opportunity is a concern, but not when the AC is 47. And especially not when the enemy still doesn't have autokill.
Rolling to confirm the critical is a joke when all that is usually needed to fail is a roll of 1.
The 4 goals to accomplish you list are very easy to do.
Recap:
1. Usually only one encounter per day, one bad boss per encounter. This point is moot.
2. Initiative doesn't matter unless the enemy can kill you with one shot, which isn't possible 99% of the time (because this would be unfair to players and a game breaker like the tattoo has become).
3. Attack of opportunity doesn't matter- read above.
4. Confirming a crit is easy when all you have to do is roll not roll a 1.
Sorry give wasn't the right word, you shouldn't have allowed him to have it.
Why shouldn't he have it? Because clearly you have problems with it now or you wouldn't have made this thread.
A GM has to know how and where to limit his players so that they don't get out of control. Magic item creation rules are simply guidelines, and the GM should carefully review what is available and consider how it will impact the game. You job is to make it fun for everyone and items like this just shouldn't be available.
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I mentioned to my players early on, that I'm usually very lenient when it comes to allowing stuff. If I'm asked I'm usually more inclined to allow it than not unless it's completely over the top.
However, I also told them "What's fair for me to use is fair for you too, and vica versa". Meaning I'm not making special rules for my NPCs. I'm not going to have my NPCs swallow healing potions as a free action without AOO for example and force my PCs to provoke and use a Standard on it. If I'm gonna rule that my NPC can do X, because of Y, than a PC in the same position could do it too.
But on the other hand, if one of them comes up with a really broken combination of feats, items and spells that clearly wasn't meant to work that way but by the rules does, then they shouldn't be surprised if suddenly NPCs start having the same stuff.
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Combat at 21st level SHOULD be nearly instantaneous. Once enemies learn his his super-move, they'll kill him in ways that don't bring them within melee range. This is part and parcel of DMing epic-level campaigns. Combat at 21st level should not run the way it does at 1st, or something is very wrong.
If you only have 1 encounter a day, maybe you should up the rate of encounters for your game. Every game I've played has had more than 1 encounter in a day.
If you only have 1 encounter a day, maybe you should up the rate of encounters for your game. Every game I've played has had more than 1 encounter in a day.
Then he'd save it for the big bad evil guy. Talk about anti-climactic.
It sounds to me like the DM is upset that the player has a high AC and BAB, not just that he combined Vorpal with the Flash of Insight tattoo. It seems that the DM is begrudging the player for making smart moves and steering the PC in a direction that caused him to have high stats. What's next, only being able to heal a certain amount of hit points per day?
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If you only have 1 encounter a day, maybe you should up the rate of encounters for your game. Every game I've played has had more than 1 encounter in a day.Then he'd save it for the big bad evil guy. Talk about anti-climactic.
The illusion of the bbeg really didn't see the decapitation coming. Poor illusion wife and illusion sick baby have no fake father now.
Or disguised henchman or shape shifter or other ideas.
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Apparently u as the dm arent having fun anymore and EVERYBODYs supposed to be having fun. How are the other party members doing? Are they having fun being outshined by this person?
U have a few choices. U can talk with the player and discuss what can be done about the broken item he has. U can end the campaign and atart a new one. U can off his charecter. Or u can continue on.
Point is, EVERYBODY should be having fun, that includes the dm who has to work and create all this content players enjoy. Yes the players have a right to be happy to, but if its a broken situation the try to fix it or move on. To much work goes into dming for u not to be having fun as well.
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Combat at 21st level SHOULD be nearly instantaneous. Once enemies learn his his super-move, they'll kill him in ways that don't bring them within melee range. This is part and parcel of DMing epic-level campaigns. Combat at 21st level should not run the way it does at 1st, or something is very wrong.
But this would imply that all future enemies know the character...and know his strengths and weaknesses...isn't that GM metagaming?
But this would imply that all future enemies know the character...and know his strengths and weaknesses...isn't that GM metagaming?
Why are people so terrified by the "M" word that they crazily assume that eveyone in the game world is blind, deaf, and densely stupid? Certainly "all enemies" wouldn't know -- but any epic-level social types should know by rumor, and any epic-level casters should know by divination. Unless you're playing them as if their Int is like 2.
If some guy has been walking around magically beheading epic-level threats, one would think that wouldn't go unnoticed forever. Just like, if an NPC is in a position to observe that the sun comes up every morning, it's not "DM metagaming" for him to eventually notice it.
This isn't in any way an auto-decapitate. I did some digging and found this particular tattoo. It is called "Eye of Steropeps" and it is listed on page 25 of 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming's book "Inkantations - A Sourcebook of Tattoo Magic & Body Art". When you say it's a one-shot kill, consider the following:
1) Flash of Insight per the tattoo listing, as well as the actual Core ability listing, can only be used once per day. That means it will only possibly succeed on one creature or enemy that is susceptible to critical hits and/or has a head.
2) The PC has to roll a higher initiative than the enemy so he/she can attack first.
3) The PC has to move to the enemy and possibly be subject to one or more attacks of opportunity.
4) The PC must roll to confirm the critical.The PC has to accomplish 3 goals in order to successfully use Flash of Insight to decapitate one enemy.
It sounds to me that if the player can do this every time, his dice are loaded or his character is built really well. I don't see why a player should be punished for doing things that are within the rules. It's a rather cleaver combination.
This also could allow this kind of opportunity..
"The Perfect Strike ability for the Weapon Adept Monk. At 10th level, the Monk can roll to attack THREE TIMES and choose the best result and confirm a critical with the same set of rolls.
2)Using Hero Points to re-roll."Keep in mind that there are the options of Fortification, being incorporeal, not having a head to sever, not needing a head to continue fighting, being immune to critical hits, being undead, being a vampire, or being a construct.
The OP might have given his player the monster ability from the cyclops.
He did say it cost a lot of gold. How much does the 3rd party tattoo cost?
I am realizing that now. I was being way too generous but have to fix the situation in a way that doesn't make the player storm off in a temper tantrum.Sorry give wasn't the right word, you shouldn't have allowed him to have it.
Just remind the player that anything he can get the NPC's can also get. That is normally all I have to say to get most players to change their tune.
Combat at 21st level SHOULD be nearly instantaneous. Once enemies learn his his super-move, they'll kill him in ways that don't bring them within melee range. This is part and parcel of DMing epic-level campaigns. Combat at 21st level should not run the way it does at 1st, or something is very wrong.But this would imply that all future enemies know the character...and know his strengths and weaknesses...isn't that GM metagaming?
Just have a bad guy run away. With spells like teleport or plane shift that is not hard to do, and by level 11 characters are legendary and subject to legend lore. Other divination spells would also work.
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It sounds to me like the DM is upset that the player has a high AC and BAB, not just that he combined Vorpal with the Flash of Insight tattoo. It seems that the DM is begrudging the player for making smart moves and steering the PC in a direction that caused him to have high stats. What's next, only being able to heal a certain amount of hit points per day?
LOL. It seems to me the GM allowed 3rd party items in the game when he shouldn't have. They will be promptly removed. It's too bad this GM was so generous to even allow such a thing and the player took advantage and still blames to GM, even after the GM was willing to compromise to make things balanced. Talk about arrogance...
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It's a rather cleaver combination.
I see what you did there.
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Apparently u as the dm arent having fun anymore and EVERYBODYs supposed to be having fun. How are the other party members doing? Are they having fun being outshined by this person?
With this character, he plays by himself, since there is only one other person with a level 20, and he rarely plays. So I actually created hirelings for him to use, decent hirelings that could easily be played as characters with great equipment. Maybe I should just disallow the use of these, too, since they aren't in the rules?
As a GM you should have known not to give a player such a magical item, whether its a magical tattoo or a crafted wondrous items. Some items just aren't suitable for players.I didn't "give it" to the players, he purchased the item with his money. He is level 21 and can craft, but can't craft tattoos. He has many connections in the game as well as rogue Black Market talent, so he is able to get any wondrous item (except artifacts) within a reasonable period of time.
That's why I allowed the wondrous tattoo, using the 3rd party book Inkantations. I'm not a big fan of tattoo magic myself, preferring to stick to those in Core, much like I am with wondrous items. But if he is able to craft, which he is, virtually anything, why not allow him, per rules, to make a +10 Headband of Mental Superiority?
If he had Craft Tattoo, why not allow him to make the tattoo giving him Flask of Insight? As I said, I am not a big fan of the 3rd party stuff (and may have to limit 3rd party from now on) but a lot of 3rd party things are fun and interesting. Obviously, having a CR 20 devil killed in one shot isn't fun for a GM, though.
If a crafter can make a magical item and sell it, why can't a tattoo be sold? This is where I was coming from from he obtained it.
-blackbloodtroll- Of course, it would seem to reason that if he can kill easily such high level monsters, why would I bother to GM? If I'm not having fun, it ain't worth it. I can seek to balance it out, though- by giving him, as mentioned, enemies with add-ons, like fortification, or even an enemy with the same tattoo and sword. But this would be sort of powergaming and metagaming on the GM's part...
-Icast- he purchsed the Vorpal sword.
-Pauper-
In the case of the character, it IS pretty much an auto-decapitate. With a BAB of +31, the character can almost hit any creature with a head. NO SAVE...
Going by the bestiary, there are 2,099 monsters that could be hit with AC 32 unless the character rolls a 1 on...
So...up the ante. Throw the book at them. Throw two of whatever bad nasty is coming at them, or three, or four! At level 21 the XP barely matters anymore.
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He's 21st level, you are fully within your rights to use mage's disjunction with a BBEG wizard archenemy.
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Set the stage. Give him a chance to hear tales of other great heroes going up against this baddie and he has slaughtered them. If he has any kind of information gathering (in the right area) he might even hear the their magic items were useless.
Make sure that the BBEG is loaded down with minions, so it will take some time for him to get to the wizard, and thus give the wizard sufficient time to do his little taunt, and if need be cast mage's disjunction once or twice.
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Now the important thing is to give the PC enough time to build up the reputation with his vorpal blade. It kind of sounds like he has, but let him have his fun for a bit, but then when you have had enough (which it kinda sounds you have) bam, introduce this baddie.
That's how I would handle it.
He did say it cost a lot of gold. How much does the 3rd party tattoo cost?The 3rd party book lists the cost as 2,500 GP. *Cringe*
Clearly, after using it in a game, it is very powerful. It is from the 3rd Party Inkantations book.
How much did it cost in your game?
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He did say it cost a lot of gold. How much does the 3rd party tattoo cost?The 3rd party book lists the cost as 2,500 GP. *Cringe*
Clearly, after using it in a game, it is very powerful. It is from the 3rd Party Inkantations book.
I don't think you ever properly gave us enough background for your campaign in order for us to make informed decisions here for instance:
* Approaching, or even beyond 20th level, the math behind the game really breaks down. Soon, if not already, you'll reach a point where the player character cannot make his poor saves and cannot fail his good saves. What are you doing to compensate for the numbers becoming so diverse?
* It seems likely there are only 1-2 players with primary characters at 20-21st level plus some followers or something. How long has this been the case? A team of 1-2 characters isn't the same EPL as a 4 person party, so certainly you buffed them/reduced encounters to compensate, right? For a solo 21st level character, probably CR22 would be "epically challenging". But again, the math breaks down.
* What Class is the character? I ask because by 21st level, I find it really hard to believe that anybody could get into melee with anybody else. Really, almost any spellcaster could defeat the vorpal sword-instant crit strategy with no chance of retaliation. By even 18th level a Wizard can easily scry the character and dump his entire spellbook worth of save-or-die effects unto him from complete safety. Daily. Get six of them to do that for CR 22.
Seriously, though- even if the player never missed with an attack and always instantly killed anything he attacked, he STILL would not be a threat to most things he should be fighting. The fact that once per day he can kill a target should not really reduce the impact the other five CR 22 encounters that day.
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So character is level 21.
Instead of a leveel 24 bad guy, have two level 22 bad guys....
To make it interesting you also might want to have them both know crane style.
Player charges rolls a 20 with his vorpal. Monk deflects it and Ripostes on the player.
If you want to provide a "one shot" threat. Monk level X, Rogue level 9+ with feat Dastardly Finish. Monk ripostes with Crane stance and uses a Stunning fist to stun hero. On Monks turn he uses dastardly finish to "Coup de Grace" on stunned opponent.
I wouldn't even make the lvl 24 BBEG. I would make him lvl 20. How embarrassing would that be? :p
Honestly, he does not need to be higher level than the party. Just give him sufficient minions to be a threat.
I have always been of the mind that the heroes should be stronger than the villain, at least once the heroes have been established. Otherwise you end up with the Dragonball effect, where combats are going to irrevocably alter the face of the world, with tremendous casualty.
Having a character around or even lower level could provide a recurring villain that is something more of a pain than a threat. If your players are not bloodthirsty goons (like many of us often play) they could possibly even make a choice of imprisonment over other means of defeat.
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* What Class is the character? I ask because by 21st level, I find it really hard to believe that anybody could get into melee with anybody else. Really, almost any spellcaster could defeat the vorpal sword-instant crit strategy with no chance of retaliation. By even 18th level a Wizard can easily scry the character and dump his entire spellbook worth of save-or-die effects unto him from complete safety. Daily. Get six of them to do that for CR 22.
I thought that there were only a handful of spells that could be cast through a scry? Even then, I thought that they were only detects and the like?
Of course, this does not take away from the fact that the character would have to wade through spell after spell to even get up to the wizard, and who's to say that it won't be an illusion that the spells are being cast through? (I can't remember the name of the spell but it quickly became one of my favorites for Illusionists...)
You can't attack through scrying spells, so that is not an option.
I thought that there were only a handful of spells that could be cast through a scry? Even then, I thought that they were only detects and the like?
Step 1 - Scry. Step 2 - Cast all your buff spells. Step 3- Confirm scry and teleport in. Step 4 - Unload like hell.
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I thought that there were only a handful of spells that could be cast through a scry? Even then, I thought that they were only detects and the like?Step 1 - Scry. Step 2 - Cast all your buff spells. Step 3- Confirm scry and teleport in. Step 4 - Unload like hell.
Nice, but no wizard worth his salt would get close enough to a whirlwind of death like that... unless he is greater invis'd and various other safety measures! ;p
Aeshuura: That's what "Step 2 - Cast all your buff spells" is for :)
Anyway, if this is an epic-level campaign, then I wouldn't be surprised if virtually any level-appropriate encounter would be over in a couple of rounds at the most (whether it's a win or loss for the party), regardless of abilities like this.
And if the GM only throws 1-2 such encounters at the party per day, none of whom apparently have any foreknowledge of the party's tactics, then yes, this is an auto-win button. If the GM starts having more encounters, or more high-level opponents in each encounter, then the value of this tactic will be drastically reduced.
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anybody with that level of power is going to be known everywhere in land. Along with many of their tactics (especially if they use the same one often). Thus having a smart BBEG be prepared for this character would not be out of line. Even if the PC ends up beating the BBEG, he may be forced to change up his tactics from time to time.
As for things to use on him, Don't forget the simple things like the Witch's Misfortune Hex. He may be able to call one roll as a 20, he then gets to roll a second die and take the lower of the two. And as long as the witch keeps cackling, he gets to keep throwing 2 and taking the lower.
Strong ability, probably a high price for it as well, but regardless it is not a Natural 20. He can certainly auto-threat, and probably confirm a critical, but Vorpal won't work. No need to go to great lengths for this.
For the OP, a suggestion: toss another Pit Fiend, or perhaps another Wish-bearing creature. If/when he goes for the behead, either have it fail to behead and the Fiend cackles and says "The Universe doesn't work that way... anymore, Muahahahaha!", or have it make the Wish to change it in that instant (to be fair, it would have to ready for that).