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I say let 'em take what they want, WBL is supposed to be a system that you correct as you go (they get a windfall here, they hit a dry spot there...), and the classic "Hey Geralt, if you die, can I have your Boots of Speed?" trope gets fulfilled.
S'all good.
Since my group usually runs APs we have a "rule" saying that when a character dies (and doesn't get better) then the other characters give his gear to his family or donate to the dead guy's church or the nearest good church or just simply bury him with his gear.
It is metagaming i know but the other route is worse for our group.
What if the gear is less-good with other people, than it was with him? Like it's a magic thing.
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It's no different to any other sort of stealing.
The money / possessions belong's to the deceased's family, who may well use it towards the cost of a raise-dead.
With a little bit of divination, the family of a dead character should be able to figure out what has happened and come chasing after the dead character's thieving colleagues.
Richard
I think it depends on the alignment too. I can hardly imagine a paladin looting them for anything more than the bare essentials (if he was the only one with a ghost touch weapon for example). Otherwise, they will go with some moral route.
But this player was an assassin, so I am going to guess that morals are a bit more flexible. Discuss how comfortable players are with such situations before starting the game though.
With a little bit of divination, the family of a dead character should be able to figure out what has happened and come chasing after the dead character's thieving colleagues.
And promptly die in the attempt as the trail would lead them through the Underdark, meaning problem solved.
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No the dead guy was a member of an assassins guild that hunts drow. He was killed in the underdark, and the guild is none the wiser at this point.
That sounds like a very nice plot point for the DM. If they keep the loot maybe the Assassins guild will come looking for a specific item they gave him. :)
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In my games this is entirely a player in character decision and the GM has no role whatsoever in making the decision to loot or not loot.
However, based on the story, the alignment, the circumstances or the location, looting a dead PC's stuff for personal gain may have consequences for the PCs involved.
Most of my good aligned characters take a dim view on looting anything not clearly in the possession of their evil enemies. And even then I've had my good PCs actively search for the rightful owners of stolen stuff to return it.
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They should sell the gear to resurrect their companion. It's what they would want done right?
Anyway the pcs might be jerks and not Rez him (maybe for good reason too), but they should start looking over their shoulder since their companions are so quick to leave each other dead.
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They should sell the gear to resurrect their companion. It's what they would want done right?
Anyway the pcs might be jerks and not Rez him (maybe for good reason too), but they should start looking over their shoulder since their companions are so quick to leave each other dead.
This is where "good metagaming" comes into play.
The players know a rez is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS because the player has left the game. They'd be rezzing an NPC that is likely to just go "Whoop whoop whoop!" and leave.
Make up some excuse like "We can't be weighed down by his body in this place, not on the off chance we might find someone willing to resurrect him", jack his boots, cloak, and jewelry, then roll his naked ass down a chasm and get on with the game.
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And promptly die in the attempt as the trail would lead them through the Underdark, meaning problem solved.
With a little bit of divination, the family of a dead character should be able to figure out what has happened and come chasing after the dead character's thieving colleagues.
In your game.
Richard
It depends.
In one of my games, the characters are working for a lawful mega-city, and they are required by regulations to bring the belongings and corpse back (if possible) and turn them in. The belongings go to next of kin (on file for everyone), or to the city if no NoK. They can use the equipment while they're returning it however.
In another game, it's completely up to the players as they are freelancers. However, they usually send it to the NoK if they can find any.
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And promptly die in the attempt as the trail would lead them through the Underdark, meaning problem solved.
With a little bit of divination, the family of a dead character should be able to figure out what has happened and come chasing after the dead character's thieving colleagues.
In your game.
Richard
Yeah, I usually don't Fiat people into surviving where they shouldn't just to prevent them from making sure items don't go to waste.
When death comes to claim the fallen party member, he plans to take the loot with him... If the players want to keep the loot, they must draw from the deck of many things.
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When death comes to claim the fallen party member, he plans to take the loot with him... If the players want to keep the loot, they must draw from the deck of many things.
Ah, the good ol' Deck of Many Things. Our party found that artifact once.
It was responsible for more PC deaths than all of the monsters in that dungeon could have ever hoped for. :)
It's no different to any other sort of stealing.
The money / possessions belong's to the deceased's family, who may well use it towards the cost of a raise-dead.
Well, you see, it was common for gear and loot found while part of an adventuring party to be considered as group loot per an adventurers compact. In other words, your buddie's bank account or real property or interest in the family farm or business would pass back to the family. But the treasure/gear he found while part of a band of adventurers would pass back to the band. Heck even in WWII, a guys buddies would divvie up some of his stuff among them, like battlefield trophies, combat gear etc, while stuff like family mementoes, a watch and cash were sent back. If one of the guys in your squad managed to get his hands on a extra .45 , a Luger and combat knife, you sure as heck weren’t going to mail that back to his wife. Nor his issue gear, of course, except his dress uniform, maybe. And certainly not his booze, cigs and porno stash.
So, if the morals of this are important to you (and I don’t understand why, it’s a simple, common and realistic RPG convention) then just ask each player to do a will for his PC. If he then wants to leave his gear for his buddies, who he has lived with for the last few years and had his live saved by and the reverse countless times, as opposed to some distant relatives he hasn’t seen for nor care much for, then what’s the problem?
Now, for the Metagame reason of WBL, then yes, we generally assume that the gear passes out of the party. Quest items, consumables and undivided shares stay.
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Lets say it was PFS in WWII. Your Garand is out of bullets. Your dead squadmate was shot early in combat and has 5 clips on him, as well as a pair of grenades. Would you respect their sacrifice by not touching their body or respect them by using all the tools available to stop the enemy and continue forward?
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We used to split a dead ally's things immediately, but upon reading this thread I realize we haven't done it in years. Either it stays with them until they are raised, or the body and loot conveniently disappears. I think this began durring a long-term evil campaign with a high turn over rate. Once we level 10-18 a new ally meant a new batch of party magic items. When someone died their magic was split up and it started getting out of control. Eventually the DM decided that a body not raised simply vanished with all of their equipment,
Several people have said this, but it depends on the characters and circumstances. Many good or lawful characters will not think it appropriate to loot a friends corpse (looking for next of kin or burying the body w/ the gear to "honor the dead"), more chaotic or evil characters will see no problem. Of course, strange circumstances like a very logically thinking lawful character may see no point in wasting the supplies. Each character will see this differently and they can decide what works for them.
WBL is a guideline. Just give them less stuff for a little while to get it back in line. That is if they decide to loot the body.
No reason to stop them. As has been said, just hold back on the treasure for a bit 'til things even out.
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(Ahem) The Army happens to own all of those possessions - neither you nor your late friend do. Please choose a different metaphor.
Also, when one of your war-buddies suffers sudden bullet poisoning, you might pick up some of his gear to help carry out the mission, but you and your surviving buddies probably aren't going to shout "Dibs," slap at each other to get first pick, or declare that the 'high roller' gets first pick of his stuff and start rolling right there in mid-onslaught.
Ok, let us bring this back to PFS terms. If you have exhausted all your potions, weapon sundered, party nearly slained, and your dead cleric has a large supply of Cure Serious Potions and a +2 Holy weapon that would help finish off that demon. Would you not take them to help your party? Would you not use the weapon to help continue to stop that onslaught of demons coming out of the Worldwound? Would you just say, "ok, we are out of potions, but the cleric has a bunch that we, in respect of his body, do not touch. I guess we have to head back home."
Ok, let us bring this back to PFS terms. If you have exhausted all your potions, weapon sundered, party nearly slained, and your dead cleric has a large supply of Cure Serious Potions and a +2 Holy weapon that would help finish off that demon. Would you not take them to help your party? Would you not use the weapon to help continue to stop that onslaught of demons coming out of the Worldwound? Would you just say, "ok, we are out of potions, but the cleric has a bunch that we, in respect of his body, do not touch. I guess we have to head back home."
If I were playing a Paladin (so most goody, good you can get), I'd have no problem picking up the +2 Holy Sword and using it to defeat a demon if the Cleric died mid-combat. BUT! After the fight I would not keep the weapon indefinitely. Depending on situation, I would probably bury the sword w/ my fallen friend (assuming he can't be rezed), return the sword to the next of kin, or return the sword to his religious order.
The potions are up for grabs. I mean, come on, healing potions. :P
(Ahem) The Army happens to own all of those possessions - neither you nor your late friend do. Please choose a different metaphor.
Also, when one of your war-buddies suffers sudden bullet poisoning, you might pick up some of his gear to help carry out the mission, but you and your surviving buddies probably aren't going to shout "Dibs," slap at each other to get first pick, or declare that the 'high roller' gets first pick of his stuff and start rolling right there in mid-onslaught.
Nope. But after dividing what you needed right then and there for the battle, and giving the Army back it’s due, then the squad would make a division of the guys stuff after the battle. War trophies (like that Luger), and his stash of cigs/booze/porno would be divvied, while stuff with sentimental or personal significance would be sent back. And it’s likely what he would want anyway.
And sure, in TODAY's army, it owns all that stuff. Not so back then.
Let us also stop trying to make medieval chatacters confrom to todays morality. Today, even adventurering would be immoral.
Depends on what type of game you want to play. I like making my game realistic, so I would let them loot whoever they want. Otherwise, there's just some arbitrary force keeping them from doing certain things they should be able to do. There may be consequences to their actions though. For example, the other party members may not approve of it, or will want a share.
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Up to your game, but kamikaze play style is encouraged if a financial windfall can be obtained off "suiciding" characters, looting their wealth, and starting new ones with appropriate wealth by level.
I have a list of "house rules" given to players before the campaign. This includes that characters who die go "viking style;" all equipment goes with them and is considered gone. Same goes for wealth, whether it is conveyed to family or otherwise. Quest items or undistributed wealth from that current session are exempt.
The game is meant to have balance to provide challenge. This is my group's solution to aspects of the game where "we can take an action" followed by "but should we?"
If a person is attached to a character (as they should be in any non-meat grinder campaign) the "Kamikaze for more stuff" approach is unlikely to show up.
Since my group usually runs APs we have a "rule" saying that when a character dies (and doesn't get better) then the other characters give his gear to his family or donate to the dead guy's church or the nearest good church or just simply bury him with his gear.
It is metagaming i know but the other route is worse for our group.
This is what our groups do.
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In one campaign, not only did they loot a dead player, they cut off his hands and face and jaw so that NPCs couldn't use speak with dead. Most of these guys have been friends for 15 or more years so it's all in fun. But now, years later, every once in awhile after a key NPC is killed someone yells "face off!" and we all laugh.
Obviously that would not work in every group. I'm about to start DMing a LN/LE campaign and am coming out with a rule handout for what I expect. The "anything you keep will be taken away from the WBL of the next character" is a good one I think
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I had an in game friend die, I took his armor that had is dietys holy symbol embroidered on it. I wore it in honor of his memory and buried him with his sword. Everything else was a free for all.
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Warning: Nostalgia ahead.
Well, you see, it was common for gear and loot found while part of an adventuring party to be considered as group loot per an adventurers compact. In other words, your buddie's bank account or real property or interest in the family farm or business would pass back to the family. But the treasure/gear he found while part of a band of adventurers would pass back to the band. Heck even in WWII, a guys buddies would divvie up some of his stuff among them, like battlefield trophies, combat gear etc, while stuff like family mementoes, a watch and cash were sent back. If one of the guys in your squad managed to get his hands on a extra .45 , a Luger and combat knife, you sure as heck weren’t going to mail that back to his wife. Nor his issue gear, of course, except his dress uniform, maybe. And certainly not his booze, cigs and porno stash.
So, if the morals of this are important to you (and I don’t understand why, it’s a simple, common and realistic RPG convention) then just ask each player to do a will for his PC. If he then wants to leave his gear for his buddies, who he has lived with for the last few years and had his live saved by and the reverse countless times, as opposed to some distant relatives he hasn’t seen for nor care much for, then what’s the problem?
In my first PF campaign, my druid did indeed write up a short will saying "make sure my family gets enough gold to see them comfortably provided for, and I want items 1, 2, and 3 to go to persons A, B, and C, but other than that my gear should go to the party, to use it to protect what I love."
I think it depends on the alignment too. I can hardly imagine a paladin looting them for anything more than the bare essentials (if he was the only one with a ghost touch weapon for example). Otherwise, they will go with some moral route.
In the above example, my druid explicitly willed her weapon to the paladin and made it very clear that the paladin should feel free to sell it because she wasn't sure whether the paladin was going to try something stupid and noble like bury her with the +4 Keen Dancing Scythe.
It can depend also on the culture of the PCs (including the dead one). A Fremen-like "waste not, want not" mentality could fit even a Paladin (or a follower of Pharasma). As long as proper respect is paid to the dead, all is well.
My above druid was very practical and would have been really ticked off at the above paladin wasting a fine scythe by burying it.
In one campaign, not only did they loot a dead player, they cut off his hands and face and jaw so that NPCs couldn't use speak with dead.
My above druid also briefly considered getting Disintegrate contingencied onto herself somehow to prevent her body from getting into the hands of a very scary Necromancer.
Summary: Looting your buddy can totally be done respectfully depending on the PCs (and the players - the ragequit is probably your biggest concern here if you think looting will cause hard feelings IRL).
I'm running a game and a character died, the player then rage quit the group. He had some good gear, I feel as though the other players should be able to loot his corpse, but I fear if they get all the stuff he had, its going to overpower the existing players? What are your thoughts on this Pathfinder Community?!
Yes,why else would they kill them?
In one campaign, not only did they loot a dead player, they cut off his hands and face and jaw so that NPCs couldn't use speak with dead. Most of these guys have been friends for 15 or more years so it's all in fun. But now, years later, every once in awhile after a key NPC is killed someone yells "face off!" and we all laugh.
Obviously that would not work in every group. I'm about to start DMing a LN/LE campaign and am coming out with a rule handout for what I expect. The "anything you keep will be taken away from the WBL of the next character" is a good one I think
Hmm that's an interesting idea. Never thought of that.
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It's strictly an alignment role-play scenario.
Lawful Good: Would probably "use" items at the present need. Taking any items is usually to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands, only to be returned to the appropriate person(s) once available to do so.
Neutral Good: Would use items, and return them if available, but keep them if that isn't possible.
Chaotic Good: Might take items of use, but may return them if asked.
Lawful Neutral: Would take items of use, but is usually persuaded to return some form of compensation.
Neutral: The pull from all possibilities ways heavy on your soul. I'll keep these safe, until I can figure out what to do with them.
Chaotic Neutral: Takes what he needs and denies that the other party ever owned it.
Lawful Evil: Would take items and sell them back to the owner for a considerable discount... I mean a safe keeping deposit.
Neutral Evil: Why let good items go to waste? Besides, if they were meant to have them, they wouldn't have died no would they?
Chaotic Evil: Will probably kill you for your items... "It's my precious!"