|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So apparently, everyone I've played with has been doing this wrong the entire time. I always thought when you missed with a thrown splash weapon, it landed in a randomly determined square adjacent to the original target. But that's not what it says in the Core Rulebook (bolding mine):
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 falling short (off-target in a straight line toward the thrower), and 2 through 8 rotating around the target creature or grid intersection in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in that square and in all adjacent squares.
I'm a little confused by this wording. By saying the distance that you're off is based on the range increment of the throw, does that mean the range increment of the thrown splash weapon, or how many range increments away you were when you threw it?
For example, if I throw an alchemist's fire (range increment of 10 feet) from 50 feet away and miss, does it miss by 2 squares (the range increment of the thrown weapon) or 5 squares (because I was throwing from 5 range increments away)? How far away from the target does it land?
Oh wow, I always thought that too. I guess since it says equal to the range increment, it would mean the item's increment, not where you threw it from or what its increment is in your hands after counting feats, class abilities, etc. That's funny that you could end up throwing a thunderstone or alchemist's fire right into your own face. I'll have to remember this for We Be Goblins.
|
|
Actually, it would make sense that the farther away you're throwing from, the more you miss by. So if you miss from 10 feet away, it lands 1 square away. If you miss from 20, it's 2 squares away, from 30, and it's 3 squares away. So I could see that interpretation.
I just wish the wording was clearer.
But I think everyone I've ever played with has been getting this wrong. It's amazing what I'm learning by actually reading the Core Rulebook cover to cover.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It does say, "range increment of the throw" and not "range increment of the weapon". That would indicate it lands 5 squares away if you're throwing it 50'.
I understand that now, and I think you've caught a major oversight in the description (gm human error. I'll freely admit I've overlooked that line.
So say you miss, and you've rolled a 5 on the d8. starting with 1 as short, you count around clockwise to the rear of target. then count out a number of squares totalling the range increment of the splash weapon, so if it says 10', then it's another two squares to the rear of target in this hypothetical. that's getting a double asterisk in my gameplay, thank you.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've always treated it as the range increment of the thrown weapon. That means it will still land in the general vicinity of where you were aiming, and not totally off course, which makes more sense.
So, say the range increment is 10ft (2 squares), and you're throwing it from 30ft (6 squares) away, and you miss. After rolling your d8 for direction, it lands 10ft (2 squares) from your intended target.
Another thing people often get confused, even if you're aiming for a grid intersection, and you miss, your splash weapon lands in a square, and splashes all the squares around it, which means it will actually have a greater area of effect than if you had hit your target.
But even though it lands in a square, the creatures in the square only take the splash damage, not the full damage. Still, that is a very nice trick if you are playing an alchemist and are up against a monk. Target the super high touch AC? Or the AC 5 grid he is standing next to?
|
|
The explanation is not worded optimally, but it's definitely talking about the number of range increments used in the throw, not the range increment of the weapon.
I'm going to say it's up to interpretation and leave it at that. Agree to disagree. Before this thread I'd never heard it explained your way before.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Granted, this is from 3.5, but its the full paragraph of the rules.
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the grid intersection or target creature. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. So, if you miss on a throw out to two range increments and roll a 1 to determine the misdirection of the throw, the splash weapon lands on the intersection that is 2 squares away from the target in the direction toward you. See the accompanying diagram.
It specifically says 2 range increments results in a 2 square distance when you miss. It doesn't say anything about the 2 squares being because the weapons range increment is 10 feet (2 squares), but because it was thrown 2 increments.
Now the full text wasn't made Open Content, so couldn't of been used in Pathfinder, but thats the original intention. The number of squares you count is equal to the number of range increments that you threw the weapon, not the same distance as the weapons range increment.
Of course, Pathfinder could of changed that like they did other things.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm sorry for the thread necro, but wow, I googled something related to thrown splash weapons and this thread popped up and I was shocked that the thread just died with the MAJORITY of its posters thinking the wrong thing.
For anyone googling this topic looking for community ruling on this rule, let me clear: once you determine the direction the missed throw splash weapon will travel in, you count out the number of spaces in that direction equal to the number of range increments the weapon traveled to get to the target. So! if you miss with a flask of alchemist's fire aimed at an enemy 30 feet away (which, by the way, you would've taken a -6 to the attack because it's 3 range increments away), you roll a 1d8, determine what direction the miss happens in, and then count out 3 squares. When it lands there, any creature in that square AS WELL as all adjacent squares, get splash damage dealt to them. Notice that word, splash damage. The primary square the miss happens in DOES NOT incur the splash weapon's direct hit damage.
|
|
One of the reasons why you generally shouldn't necro threads like this is because of the time that has elapsed since the last comment. A lot of things could have either changed about the rules in place when the thread was created or the knowledge people have gained since then.
When I posted in this thread over a year ago, I had only been doing Pathfinder for over half a year. Reading my comments over again, I would have corrected myself if I were another poster. I play an Alchemist now, and understand the rules better because of it, but at the time I was unaware.
So, when you find an old thread, just leave it be. Make your own thread if you have a question, and then it can be answered with the most current information.
You gain very little by necro'ing old threads such as this.
I'm sorry for the thread necro, but wow, I googled something related to thrown splash weapons and this thread popped up and I was shocked that the thread just died with the MAJORITY of its posters thinking the wrong thing.
For anyone googling this topic looking for community ruling on this rule, let me clear: once you determine the direction the missed throw splash weapon will travel in, you count out the number of spaces in that direction equal to the number of range increments the weapon traveled to get to the target. So! if you miss with a flask of alchemist's fire aimed at an enemy 30 feet away (which, by the way, you would've taken a -6 to the attack because it's 3 range increments away), you roll a 1d8, determine what direction the miss happens in, and then count out 3 squares. When it lands there, any creature in that square AS WELL as all adjacent squares, get splash damage dealt to them. Notice that word, splash damage. The primary square the miss happens in DOES NOT incur the splash weapon's direct hit damage.
Just to correct you, 30 feet away with a 10 foot range increment is a -4 penalty. You are penalized for increments BEYOND the first. So, first 10 feet are free, then you have 20 feet left, which is 2 range increments, or a -4 total penalty.
You would then count out 3 squares as the that is the range increment into the total throw distance for miss.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm sorry for the thread necro, but wow, I googled something related to thrown splash weapons and this thread popped up and I was shocked that the thread just died with the MAJORITY of its posters thinking the wrong thing.
For anyone googling this topic looking for community ruling on this rule, let me clear: once you determine the direction the missed throw splash weapon will travel in, you count out the number of spaces in that direction equal to the number of range increments the weapon traveled to get to the target. So! if you miss with a flask of alchemist's fire aimed at an enemy 30 feet away (which, by the way, you would've taken a -6 to the attack because it's 3 range increments away), you roll a 1d8, determine what direction the miss happens in, and then count out 3 squares. When it lands there, any creature in that square AS WELL as all adjacent squares, get splash damage dealt to them. Notice that word, splash damage. The primary square the miss happens in DOES NOT incur the splash weapon's direct hit damage.
Just to correct you, 30 feet away with a 10 foot range increment is a -4 penalty. You are penalized for increments BEYOND the first. So, first 10 feet are free, then you have 20 feet left, which is 2 range increments, or a -4 total penalty.
You would then count out 3 squares as the that is the range increment into the total throw distance for miss.
Whoops, you are correct tarantula.
Nefreet, the only reason why I did it wasn't to scold or criticize the posters involved, but because this thread pops up on google first thing when you google "pathfinder thrown splash weapon miss". That's the technique I use when I want to locate a thread on here about something. I said something because if someone else were to check this thread the same way looking for an answer, they'd get false information. Normally I wouldn't bother with the necro, but the majority ruling was for a wrong reading of the rules, which is rare and doesn't really happen hardly ever, so I decided to post a correct ruling "FROM THE FUTURE!!!" to help anyone who clicks it looking for an answer.