Design Manager
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***There should be a mounted archer archtype imo (that's a mouthful). ***
The Luring Cavalier is an excellent mounted archer. Pretty fantastic, though I'll typically go with the standard cavalier and take archery feats so that I maintain some solid melee options. Luring Cavalier is probably the best mounted archer in the game, beating out the Sohei handily by virtue of having a full 20 level progression mount, and meeting/beating ranger by both having a better progressing mount and being able to tie in cool teamwork feats like Enfilading Fire and Coordinated Shot and use them consistently. I don't know about others experiences, but I definitely use Cavalier's Challenge far more consistently then I get to use Ranger's Favored Enemy or Favored Terrain bonuses.
A low level cavalier gets to rock it once a day at low levels (more as he progresses), in my experience a Ranger is lucky to utilize his Favored mechanics once a month, sometimes less if you aren't running an AP with recommended terrains and enemies to choose from.
Also, why can't you file the serial numbers off a samurai? Grey Maiden Samurai sound perfectly suitable.Probably would be, depending on what you were going for. Not if you want the tactician ability however, which is what was used in the example. Samurai trades out all of the charge abilities and for resolve and tactician for weapon expertise. Probably wouldn't be an awful house rule to change weapon expertise to any weapon, but by RAW you can't even give it to other eastern weapons like the Nodachi, nor western weapons if your playing a character who isn't from a place with katanas.
Samurai aren't cavalier in every respect.
Well, no, he said he should have given them teamwork feats, but felt that they were "too weak".
It sounds like he ignored two of the fundamental class features, the mount and teamwork feats, to give the order of the lion challenge bonuses.
This is poor NPC design, not an argument against cavaliers.
The katana thing is circumstantial, as this was a homebrew conversion anyhow. There's no reason to say katanas don't exist in crimson throne other than GM fiat. But then again, you can houserule different weapons, as you suggested.
His example smacks of poor NPC design to me.
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Design Manager
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Which fighting styles are you missing out on here?Two weapon fighting, Sword and Board, two handed fighting, maneuver master, Unarmed/styles, Archery, reach, Crossbow archery. There are quiet a few combat styles, but most martials tend to go with two handed. I always liked the cool tricks you could do with some of the other builds, but straight damage tends to fall on two handed and power attack. Most of the styles have their own issues of course, and the cavaliers static modifiers come from charging and particularly with a lance and mounted.
I've seen several examples of great Two Weapon fighter Cavaliers. My friend recently ran a halfling cavalier who would use his mount as a flanking buddy for two-weapon fighting as often as a mount, and became a real terror when he picked up Mounted Skirmisher. I don't see how a cavalier is missing out on sword and board since that's pretty much a quintessential archetype of the class, and now they get the added bonus of being able to get two handed Power Attack bonuses while wielding a lance and shield.
One of the meanest maneuver based characters I've ever seen was a cavalier wielding a guisarme from horseback. Not only did he get the bonus to attack for being mounted, he could add in his challenge bonuses to be just as effective as any fighter, and after he tripped an opponent, they were usually taking hits from both him and the mount if they wanted to stand up. With Paired Opportunists and Tandem Trip as his Tactician bonus feats, he virtually never failed to successfully trip an opponent and then hammer them when they tried to get up.As I've mentioned previously, cavalier archers are simply incredible. Not only do they amplify the normal benefit an archer gets of making more full attacks by having their mount take their move actions for them, their Tactician ability and challenge bonuses can more than make up for the slower feat progression they'd have compared to a fighter. An Order of the Sword cavalier can be adding up to +6 attack and +20 damage to every arrow he fires, and gain further bonuses to hit by using Enfilading Fire with his Tactician ability, and additional attacks as immediate actions by taking Coordinated Shot as his Greater Tactician ability. Coordinated Shot is particularly nice since it is also triggered by the party spellcaster making his ranged spell attacks. And if an enemy caster happens to throw up a Wind Wall, he can tuck away his bow, pull out a lance, and be just as fierce and damaging in mounted melee as a character who's actually been pouring feats into it.
I suppose that means cavaliers don't make very good unarmed combatants. That's about it.
Cavaliers don't lose out on fighting styles, they get the distinct advantage of being able to incorporate a mount into just about any fighting style they choose.
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Hey totally random, but didn't William Wallace ride in to the guys bedroom on a horse? Mount in a dungeon. Bravehart for the Win!
From the PRD/Core Rules/Rules about animal companions in generalIf the companion's Intelligence score is 2 or lower, it is limited to a small selection of feats. You should decide what feats the animal learns, though the GM should have a say about whether a desired feat is appropriate to the animal's type and training—fortunately, the feats on the list are appropriate for just about any animal. If the animal's Intelligence is 3 or higher (whether from using its ability score increase or a magic item), it can select any feat that it qualifies for. You should decide what feat it learns, subject to GM approval, although the creature's higher intelligence might mean it has its own ideas about what it wants to learn.
Animal companions CAN have Int scores higher than 3. There is no "Probably no with many GM's" involved, unless they are house ruling. Society wise it is perfectly legal. Basic rules wise, it is perfectly legal.
I had no idea of this. LOL. Only shows how uninterested I am in mounts.
Can you provide a link?Messy, contradictory and unclear? The same applies to EVERY class with an animal companion, not just the Cavalier.yet another reason for me not to like the class. Messy, contradictory and unclear rules regarding animals and animal companions.
From the PRD/Core Rules/Rules about animal companions in generalIf the companion's Intelligence score is 2 or lower, it is limited to a small selection of feats. You should decide what feats the animal learns, though the GM should have a say about whether a desired feat is appropriate to the animal's type and training—fortunately, the feats on the list are appropriate for just about any animal. If the animal's Intelligence is 3 or higher (whether from using its ability score increase or a magic item), it can select any feat that it qualifies for. You should decide what feat it learns, subject to GM approval, although the creature's higher intelligence might mean it has its own ideas about what it wants to learn.
Animal companions CAN have Int scores higher than 3. There is no "Probably no with many GM's" involved, unless they are house ruling. Society wise it is perfectly legal. Basic rules wise, it is perfectly legal.
Never said it didn’t. That’s why I don’t play characters with a mount. (Well I did it once in a game a long time ago but it was just for one session and it was a griffon and we used house rules.) Can’t recall anyone in our table top game has had a mount, ever.
It is a simple example of specific trumping general, the game is full of such exemptions. /shrug
Yep, and Again: Only shows how totally uninterested I am in mounts.