Dealing with cheating players?

[warpi9]

I have a group that I have been playing with for 10 years. Some in the group longer. Until recently cheating hasn't come up, but I am about 90% sure that 2 of the players are cheating/fudging their rolls. The other 2 players either roll very large d20, or just roll out in the open.

We sit around a large table So it's hard to glance at the dice that players are rolling. One player quickly picks his dice up after rolling, he also kinda shields them with his other hand. The other player rolls a very dark d20 and often times rolls in a small space on the table away from sight.

The fudging has gotten to be unbearable for me as a GM, and the players who are not cheating.

Its tough to pull them aside and say "hey if you are cheating please stop..." Especially since I have been playing with these guys for so long and until the past couple of years it hasn't been an issue. One of the players even cheats in card games we play, but that's beyond the topic.

I was considering a rule where I have to see the roll otherwise it doesn't count. Not only for this issue but also because i really do like to see it when players roll a nat 20. But it's hard to implement this when we have never done this.

Any advice?

[Bart Vervaet]

You could just put some sort of box (like the lid of a board game or something similar) in the middle of the table and ask ALL players to always roll their dice in the box. You could even designate one player to call out all the results

[BzAli]

Countercheat!

Roll your own dice behind your DM's screen, and add +4 when targetting a cheater...

[warpi9]

BzAli wrote:

Countercheat!

Roll your own dice behind your DM's screen, and add +4 when targetting a cheater...

I did counter cheat for one session. But the major problem with the cheaters is that they are making the players who are playing fair, look vastly inferior. I believe cheating leads to more cheating players because everyone wants their character to "shine".

[warpi9]

We did pass around a dice tray, but it got tedious, passing it on every initiative, i would forget to pass it, and the cheaters never made it a priority. but it helped somewhat, the cheaters dice were more available to be seen. though a quick pick up or a dark die made it hard still. Unfortunately there isn't much room for a box lid. Between battlemat sketches and books, most of the space is taken up. Now rolling a die on the battlemat is fine as a die doesn't take up much room.

[VRMH]

warpi9 wrote:

Its tough to pull them aside and say "hey if you are cheating please stop..."

It is tough. But what else are you going to do?

[stuart haffenden]

Ban all camouflage dice or dice that are not clearly readable.

All rolls must be made in the middle-ish part of the table where everyone can see them.

Any roll not seen by you doesn't count.

Don't worry about hurting their feelings, they're the ones cheating after all.

[Ecaterina Ducaird]

To me it depends on severity and frequency.

Lying on a dice roll once in a blue mood on something that isn't overly important.... pfft.... To me at least, that's barely worth the effort of calling someone on. I'd mentally acknowledge that it's going on and (as a GM) be more inclined to fudge my own rolls, but it's probably not worth the confrontation over it, especially if no-one else is really being harmed over it.

That doesn't sound like what's happening. It sounds pretty consistent and that the other players have noticed and are getting peeved. As soon as either other players or the game itself is being compromised, that needs to stop.

A very very odd option dawns on me that may dodge the confrontation part.... Monitor the 'good' rolls for an evening and put it to them in terms of "With what your getting, you seem out of power proportion to the other chars.... How would you feel about de-optimizing them a little to level the playing field between the group? Otherwise things are going to end up one encounter for you guys, and another for the rest of the group to keep it interesting." Don't even acknowledge that they might be cheating, but DO give the warning that if it doesn't change, you will have to re-balance, then back it up with the numbers of things like "Well... that things had AC 30 and you guys never seemed to miss even with your second / third attacks while power attacking, so your attack must be pretty high.... you got <X> on the perception skill check... " etc etc etc.... If they are reading between the lines, it'll set off alarm bells with them that they ARE being watched and monitored without formally coming out and accusing them of anything.

If that doesn't work, then more.... blunt... methods may need to be employed.

[Calybos1]

I've known a player who's been cheating so long it's an automatic action with him... every single dice roll is always hidden behind his other hand. He has never failed a save except when he "knew" (metagaming) that the effect would be harmless, to provide cover for his other more vital saves.

Knowing this, as a GM, I simply adjust all of his difficulties upward to compensate.

[Ivan Rûski]

Have had this problem before. Have a couple of possible solutions:

1. Have the person to the player's left/right confirm their rolls. Do this for all players and it is fair. May slow down play some, but not as much as the box thing.

2. Assigned seating, either temporarily or permanently. Those suspected of cheating must sit on either side of the GM and let you confirm their rolls. I don't like doing this to people, but sometimes it is the only way to get the cheating to stop.

[strayshift]

I played with a group at college years ago (too many years ago) and I was used to a fair amount of 'transparency' with regard to our dice rolling and character creation/development.

This group were not, how did I handle it?
I held a character design session where their characters were rolled in front of everyone. The same happened with hit points for level ups. The number of 'lucky characters' dropped tremendously.

In game I asked the players to make all rolls in the centre of the table and I did too. If we knew the probability then I would often state out loud what the player needed PRIOR to the dice roll. This led to some enjoyable tension with the save or suck stuff and for critical/fumble type situations. The players responded after a few reservations but as an outsider I had carte-blanche to re-write their unwritten rules for my game.

For an existing group it is more difficult, asking people to roll dice on the table implies you suspect cheating. An 'invisible' way to work this is to look at the physical environment for your game, usually a table, and to seek to make it 'less cluttered', or 'have the combat go quicker', by having the figures in one area, books in another, the characters not having character sheets on a table and dice rolled in a separate area (where all can see them). This then makes it about housekeeping not cheating.

Good luck.

[Reecy]

Everyone most roll the Die at the DM screen if there is no thunk and I cant see the result you get what ever number I feel is worthy off a d4...

Why play a game if you are going to cheat.

Its funny I had an on fire night where i was rolling crazy. So I just rolled in the dms face and just waited for mine to move the die back...

If people hide their rolls... it just means they want to DM their character and alter results they can control. There is no reason to hide rolls

[Blueluck]

strayshift wrote:

In game I asked the players to make all rolls in the centre of the table and I did too. If we knew the probability then I would often state out loud what the player needed PRIOR to the dice roll. This led to some enjoyable tension with the save or suck stuff and for critical/fumble type situations.

Strayshift's observation gives me an idea on how to sell the changes I was going to suggest.

• Bring some large, easy to read dice to the next game. (d20's at least, since they seem to be your main problem)

• Tell the players that, with the payers' rolls hidden from each other, everyone is missing out on some of the excitement of the game, so your going to try something new.

• For a trial period, all rolls must be made on the battlemat, visible to everyone, and left in the open long enough for others to see the result.

The "increased excitement" bit is mostly an excuse so that you don't have to accuse your friends of cheating, but it's also true! Hopefully your non-cheating players understand that this will help stop the cheating, and immediately jump on board with your suggestion. If the cheaters object, just beg their indulgence for a while as their GM tries out a new GMing technique. "Guys, I do all the work, and you get to play. Humor me for a while, please?"

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

This is what I did with one group long ago. (Btw, I wouldn't do this now. I no longer have the patience to put up with that carp. I will just find a different group.)

I kept track of every single number rolled on a sheet of paper right out in the open. "Ok, you got a 27 total what was the number you actually rolled?" I did not keep it separate per person, just between PC's and foes. Just the fact that I was keeping track made 2 of the 3 people shape up and stop doing it.

After a couple of sessions, "Ok the PC's average number is 14.7 over the course of 200+ rolls. That doesn't make sense. If I don't see the number, it was a 10 or someone else can be GM for awhile." This made the 3rd person stop at least most of the time.

----------------------------------------------------------

Another method of cheating that I have seen is the "pre-roller." A lot of players (myself included) fiddle with their dice when it is not their turn, the GM is describing stuff, etc... It is fairly normal behavior. One guy I know does this but when the die happens to fall on a high number he stops. When the GM calls for a save, init, perception, or attack he just points at it and says "I got a 19."
He also 'arranges' the iterative attacks advantageously. He rolls all 3 iterative attack dice at the same time ( I have no problem with this since it saves time) but he does not have a consistent order. For example the black is always the first, the green is always the second, etc… The low number is always the first attack, the middle number is always the second, and the high one is always the third. So big surprise all 3 hit almost every single time.

I am not the GM in that group so I haven’t said much, but it is irritating all the same.

[wraithstrike]

I would just let them know I need to see the dice rolls. Sometimes as a GM you need to do math behind the scene for ad-hoc reasons. That is not even an excuse. If they say they can do the math on their end and you can handle the modifiers just tell them you feel better seeing the dice. If you don't see the dice the roll did not take place.

[Conundrum]

Lol. Screw that malarkey. Three attack die boy would have a rude awakening at my table.

[strayshift]

wraithstrike wrote:

I would just let them know I need to see the dice rolls. Sometimes as a GM you need to do math behind the scene for ad-hoc reasons. That is not even an excuse. If they say they can do the math on their end and you can handle the modifiers just tell them you feel better seeing the dice. If you don't see the dice the roll did not take place.

Ultimately with some people it will come down to being assertive yes. Also the dice fiddlers are relatively easy to handle by asking them to roll the dice, if they claim they already have, you can clearly say, not since I have asked you to.

Three dice guy I would be insisting on knowing the order and would be repeating it back to him frequently.

[Javaed]

It sounds like you just want to avoid saying out loud "guys there's been some accusations of possible cheating, please roll your dice on the table in front of everybody".

In that case, how often has rolling behind a book or on the edge of the table resulted in dice falling on the floor? How often has combat been slowed down a bit (for any reason). My guess is that both those situations occur at least once a session.

Put a small tray or box in the middle of the table and ask your players to roll their dice in it. Tell them you're trying to speed up combat a bit as you feel the pace of the game is starting to slow a bit.

Another good idea is to get a decent die-roller app, load it up on an Ipad and put that on the table. That'll actually speed up combat quite a bit in addition to being an unimpeachable source for a roll.

Also @Kydeem, you've got a major cheater there. You probably should talk to your GM about a rule specifying which die equates to which roll.

[Imbicatus]

I have no problem with rolling three dice at once for iterative attacks, but you damn well better declare the order by color before you roll.

[strangepork]

i used two ideas:

- please roll in the open as it makes it more dramatic (trying to mmake it sound like they would be doing us a favor, not an accusation)

- Please roll in the middle of the table "because dice falling off slows the game down so much". a little fib to protect their egos.

[Driver 325 yards]

Okay, first make sure that they are indeed cheating. I say this because a 20 sided die can give you very interesting results. You should know, die are not perfectly balanced and it is very possible to run across a die that rolls high numbers more often than it is supposed to. I swear, I know a guy that can roll a 20 with his die 1 out of 8 times. We tracked the performance of the die. Everyone watched the roll. Point is that sometimes it is the die.

Second, the solution is simple. Institute a rule where you roll the die for everyone at critical moments in the game. Also, there are sheats that can be passed around where every player list their primary stats. You pass this around at the beginning of the game so you know where everyone stands.

That said, I repeat again. Make sure that they are cheating before you accuse them. Die can yeild odd results, even when they are not wieghted.

Last, don't chastise the person cheating. Instead, praise the guy that does not cheat. Praise the guy that catches someone else making a mistake and/or cheating. You will be surprised how praise can change the culture of your table from a honesty and policing standpoint.

"Way to let John confirm your die roll Tom." "Jack, way to catch Peter over there. Keep an I on him for me."

You can even say these things jokingly. Don't make them turn you into a prick. Be subtle and psychological.

[DM_Blake]

I have taken players aside, privately, and said this: "Hey, everyone has noticed that you are the luckiest player at the table. By far. This creates a lot of problems, like you trivialize encounters that should be fun and challenging but just seem boring. It's ruining the fun for everyone. And they way you roll your dice makes it look like you might be fudging the rolls. That makes everyone irritable. We're here to have fun, not be irritable, so everyone at the table would have more fun, including you, if we could all be sure that your rolls really are good luck and not fudging. With that in mind, please, from now on, just roll your dice and leave them on the table instead of picking them up so fast. That way everyone can see just how lucky you are. It's a game, let's all just have fun and let the dice decide our fates."

I've had a couple players get really angry. I assume they "protested too much", a sign of guilt that they had been caught cheating. Maybe. I've had other players just readily agree. In all cases, they were mature enough to realize that it's a game, and no matter how much they want their hero to be invincible, they needed to treat it more like a game and less like a personal investment into their character's heroism.

Every time, that little discussion put an end to the cheating. Mostly (I still think a few of them "forgot" a few times, especially when the situation was dire).

[strayshift]

Just as an addition to the previous post, last gaming session (3.5) the party were attacked by four ogres hasted by a Beguiler. They hit the party's flank but the gnome Illusionist Wizard had a shadow spell which would entangle them - save DC 21. So the Ogres need 20's - I roll out in front of my players. Three out of four ogres got 20's on their saves. If that had happened behind a screen there would have been some raised eyebrows (roughly 1 in 20,000 chance I was told).

It cuts both ways - you roll your dice in the open, they roll theirs.

[Reecy]

I think everyone here is backing you up and saying use your best Judgement, and it should never be an issue to ask everyone to rule in view... On the flip Side they do it in craps for money so why shouldnt we follow in their grand example?

[Dosgamer]

I had a player make his own fake d6's (multiple sides with 4, 5, and 6 pips on them). We confiscated them and I threatened to use them against him on several occasions. I still have them in my dice bag in their own little baggy...just in case they ever need to come back out. *evil grin*

If you suspect players of cheating it is probably best to implement one or more of the suggestions above. The simplest is that the DM has to verify all rolls. We've used that rule for ages. It's up to the individual DM whether they care to enforce it or not, but it's a standard rule at our table. Good luck!

[andy mcdonald 623]

I've had several instances of this over 30+ years and what was remarkable was that it was never with a new player.

In one case, the player altered the d20 so that it was smoother on the opposite side from the "20". He would roll high numbers, literally, every time. He started doing this at about the mid-point (level 8-9) of a 3.5 campaign I was running. When the other players pointed this out to me, I just pre generated 200 d20 results (by computer) and used them with his mods. In other words, I ignored his rolls and just told him the results. Well, he started to notice when his iterative attacks would miss on a 17 then hit on a 14 so he asked me what was up. It was easy to discuss at that point. And, he stopped using the "shaved" die.

In another 3.5 game, one of the players was rolling about 4 to 8 times as many "20's" as everyone else combined (four other players). It was small stuff at first, but then every critical skill check or save or opposed combat maneuver roll was a "20". It got to the point of ridiculousness. In order to rein him in, I started a conversation on how I would scale encounters to the party and how I tried to set things where the party would hit the monster on 50% of their rolls, save 70% of the time, etc. I then told them "one night, a few months ago, one character never missed. Not once, the whole night." After that, the behavior stopped or at least it dropped off.

In both cases, I was merciful because the players were good friends and had outside things impacting them (the first guy was facing a divorce and the second guy was recently unemployed). But, regardless of the situation, cheating that is egregious will ruin everyone's fun. I suggest dealing with it in a more circumspect fashion over just publicly calling them out.

For what that's worth.
Andy

[Taffer]

At my table, we have instituted an "official die roll area". We use a small box that comes with computer games like World of Warcraft expansions and such). They are small enough that you can use more than one for different areas of the table, and common enough to come by.

ANY die that does not start and finish its roll inside the box MUST be re-rolled. If the die is cocked AT ALL, it must be re-rolled, no matter how "obvious" it is what the number would have been.

This was not put in to prevent cheating, but to prevent dice rolling off the table, so we could spend more time rolling and less time searching for dice. But it probably does make cheating harder, for those so inclined.

I also used to have a player that liked to use weird dice. They would sometime be so small you needed a magnifying glass to read them, or as large as your fist. Sometimes he would use one of those transparent dies with a second die inside the first, for times when he needed two rolls of the same die. I quickly put an end to that.

For dice that are hard to read due to colouring and such, just simply ban them. It is not unreasonable for the DM to need to see the result of a die roll, and if you can't read it, it takes more time from the game that could be used playing. (As the DM, I have personally retired a couple of my own dice for this reason. One d20 has marbling that makes it difficult to tell if I've just rolled a 3 or an 8. I never use it anymore.)

===
Taffer

[Carl Hanson]

Let me make sure we have all of the facts straight.

1. You have been gaming with these people for at least a decade, which makes it very likely they are not just a "gaming group," but also friends.

2. They have recently changed their behavior in such a manor that the rest of the group thinks that they are cheating.

If this were a new relationship I would understand your dilema, but after 10 years I would hope that there is enough trust and respect in you relationship with these people that you could have an honest, straightforward convesation about their behavior and settle it like adults.

I understand the aversion to confrontation, but all of this passive agressive counter strategy is not a long term solution and will only lead to bad feelings between you and them.

[Azixirad]

Confer with your honest players, I'm sure they have noticed discrepancies, if it is confirmed that they cheat well then you have a couple of options.
One obvious action is to boot their sorry as#@s out! another action that I enjoy is to emulate their actions i.e roll your dice the way they do. Pick up your dice really quick or keep a hand in front so no one sees the result and crit the hell out of them.

The look on their faces when they realize that not only you and everyone knows they cheat should be priceless.

Another thought your first instinct is usually right.

[Driver 325 yards]

Oh, I forgot to say, don't cheat yourself. I know that some have suggested that you cheat in return. However, cheating GMs lose all credibility. In fact, they foster their player into becoming cheaters.

Lead by example. I think someone above suggested that you roll out in the open and that you allow others to confirm your die. I agree. The roll behind the screen thing that many GMs do iritates players and makes them "believe" that GMs are cheating.

Just like you have considered cheating in response to a cheating PC. A PC that thinks you are cheating may respond in like kind.

[Iced2k]

I'd let it slide.

If the people in your group are cheating on dice rolls in a tabletop roll playing game then life must be pretty desperate for them.

It literally doesn't get more hopeless than that. Well, maybe if they were LARPing...

But seriously, let it slide, I can't imagine how depressed these people must be with their lives, any ray of sunshine and control they can muster should be encouraged.

[Lincoln Hills]

I know others have suggested a box, but - as has been pointed out - that tends to clog the battle map. The principle of "all dice must land within this space to be eligible game results," however, is well worth finding yourself a nice dice bowl. Ideally you want something that stands on three or four thin legs so it can be set down on the battle map with a little careful positioning; metal interiors are rough on dice, so get something else. Some folks like the clatter of dice on ceramic or wood, while other groups might prefer something felt-lined. (Plastic works, but isn't exactly as mood-setting as more medieval materials, right?) It should be shallow enough for the results to be visible from any seat (but particularly yours.) Have a look around nearby thrift shops or yard sales; it shouldn't take long to find something that'll work just right. Ideally it should be located directly under some overhead light, because - as others have noticed - die-fudgers tend to favor dice that have black numbers on forest-green backgrounds or similar foolishness.

The advantage of the bowl is that your fudgers are subtly made aware that you know darn well that they're not playing it straight - without any awkward scenes and with no possibility of false denials - and all the folks that do roll honestly will be glad to make this small additional effort if it means not constantly living in the shadow of Mr. McNeverMiss.

[wraithstrike]

strayshift wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I would just let them know I need to see the dice rolls. Sometimes as a GM you need to do math behind the scene for ad-hoc reasons. That is not even an excuse. If they say they can do the math on their end and you can handle the modifiers just tell them you feel better seeing the dice. If you don't see the dice the roll did not take place.

Ultimately with some people it will come down to being assertive yes. Also the dice fiddlers are relatively easy to handle by asking them to roll the dice, if they claim they already have, you can clearly say, not since I have asked you to.

Three dice guy I would be insisting on knowing the order and would be repeating it back to him frequently.

I would kick him out of the game or baby him. If he cant "remember" which color is for the first attack I would write it down and tape it to the table in front of him. I am just trying to "help".

edit:I forgot about the battle map..Well I guess I could ask for the die in a certain order to help him..:)

[Lamontius]

geek hierarchy post #39492848583

on my old avatar even

:(

[Berti Blackfoot]

It is tough, but either make them roll in the middle and cannot pick up the dice, or else just call them out.
Why are they cheating in the first place? it is ridiculous. It is just a dumb game and hanging out with your friends should trump performance in the game.
If they get huffy and leave, then you are better off without them.

Once in awhile we've had to kick someone out of our D&D group (or from a MMO guild) and it's hard, but it's part of managing a group. Managers in real life have to do this as well. They might say "it's just a game" but they believe that then why don't they stay and stop cheating?

If they are ruining the fun, or unwilling to play fair, then they don't belong.

I'd rather play with 2 other people (I did for most of my childhood) than play with 4 or 5 when some are cheating.

edit: I missed that you've been playing for 10 years. Well in our group one guy did leave for a year then finally came back. He was angry that the group wouldn't let him create a vampire character. But that eventually got settled, so maybe even if they leave, they will come back.

The problem with that is, you've accepted their behavior for a long time, and now you want to change the rules. i.e. cheating has been ok, but now suddenly it's not. So there will definitely be pushback. Just be prepared.

[MrSin]

I would suggest against taking it out on them in game. I don't think that actually fixes the problem. If anything it might make things worse, and it avoids the problem rather than deals with it.

Talk with them about it outside of the game, or if you don't really want to be confrontational you can ask them to use dice that are easier for everyone to see and not allow rolls that are taken back in the hand before the results are revealed or the like. I like to have my dice rolled in front of the DM, but depending on your seating/location that isn't always easy.

[Thomas Long 175]

I'm gonna agree with Driver.

Check on the cheating first. Dice are very interesting things.

My last session I rolled 5 natural 1's in a row and never above 8 for the entire session. :p Predictable? No. But sometimes dice are just weird like that.

[warpi9]

As far as dice falling off the table it really doesn't happen. Funny thing is it usually only happens when one of the players uses a dice tray. The dice bounce out. Putting something in the middle of the table is a bit out of the question as the players at he ends would have to toss their dice about three feet into the box. This table is like 7 feet long.

I do like the idea of stating for dramatic purposes I want to see the dice rolls. And I really do like seeing when a player rolls a nag 20. The other night a player rolled 2 in a row, not a cheater, I saw the rolls and it was exciting.

My initial response to the cheating was, if that's how they have to play to have fun then let them, but now its effecting others.

As for using large dice I thought about bing everyone one. One player uses a blinking d20, but the group I'm with have their favorite d20 that they have been using probably for 5+ years.

I thought about putting dice towers at either end of the table and making it so the dice roll out into the center, ie the come out the bottom and roll out, but I'm not sure if that would work, if the dice would even roll far enough, and thus it could be a waste of an investment.

I think I may go with the dramatic purposes. Seriously I don't remember when a cheater rolled a 1. The other night one of the non cheaters saw a cheater roll 4d6 for a scorching ray the cheater rolled 7 damage so he picked the dice up and rerolled. This a mentioned to me afterwards.

[MrSin]

Thomas Long 175 wrote:

My last session I rolled 5 natural 1's in a row and never above 8 for the entire session. :p Predictable? No. But sometimes dice are just weird like that.

I once spent an entire campaign rolling nothing above a 2. It was a month long, once a week, and dozens of dice rolls. Threw the dice away when it ended. Luck is weird.

[_Cobalt_]

There was that time my friend rolled 5 natural 20s in a row. In front of us. Clearly visible. That's 0.4% chance, if I did my math right (I am way too tired for this time of day).

All that to say that they might not be cheating. But if they are, I suggest two things.

1. Don't single them out, i.e. having only them roll in front of everyone.
2. If it turns out they are cheating, tell them you will be watching them closely and if they are caught again they will be booted without any remorse or hesitation.

[Lincoln Hills]

I suppose you could announce "Dice are apparently too complicated for this group - hard to read correctly and too easy to knock over. From now on, we'll use the d2 system. Everybody take a coin! Heads, you succeed; tails, you fail - on everything!"

But be ready to see a sudden upsurge of interest in the Luck domain...

[DM_Blake]

Yeah, the math is a little off. It's actually 0.00003125%. Or 31.25% of 1% of 1%. Or roughly about 10,000x less than your initial assessment.

But your point is valid, maybe they're not cheating. If they're not, then they won't mind leaving their dice on the table (although they may resent the accusation). If they are cheating, then they will mind (and also will still resent the accusation AND resent being caught) - but at least the cheating will (mostly) end.

[Kairos Dawnfury]

I'm with the Honest Conversation crowd. Do it one on one, you can frame it as if you're doing it with everyone and just say that someone's been cheating and others are getting annoyed and ask his opinion on it, or if you know he is mature enough, be straight forward and ask him if he's been fudging rolls. I would use Fudging over the word Cheating, easier to swallow.

Try to avoid straight up "Stop cheating" or accusations. I would also recommend if you're really worried, do it after a session is over, or on a day you aren't playing so they can vent. Sometimes I need a day or two to accept an inconvienant truth.

They may have a reason they are cheating, maybe they wanted a little more spotlight in the game or they are more into the combat than roleplay and someone else is taking the spotlight. If they admit they are cheating, maybe they have a concern they want to vent. Maybe you just have to explain you want a little more tension and things are getting dry.

[_Cobalt_]

Ah, yeah. Math + late night + early morning wake up = failure.

[warpi9]

_Cobalt_ wrote:

There was that time my friend rolled 5 natural 20s in a row. In front of us. Clearly visible. That's 0.4% chance, if I did my math right (I am way too tired for this time of day).

All that to say that they might not be cheating. But if they are, I suggest two things.

1. Don't single them out, i.e. having only them roll in front of everyone.
2. If it turns out they are cheating, tell them you will be watching them closely and if they are caught again they will be booted without any remorse or hesitation.

Yeah booting them out wont really work as we play at their house. It would be more like me leaving. Plus it's hard to boot someone out of the group that you've been playing with for years.

I admit a couple of years ago i occasionally fudged my roles as a player, but it was mostly because I didn't want my pc to look worthless compared to cheaters, but I found out that the game is more fun if you accept the bad rolls. Seriously failing a charm person spell save and attacking your own group made for a memorable combat.

[EWHM]

Around 20 years ago I was running a game and for a couple of nights my dice absolutely hated the party's paladin, who had a very impressive armor class. Normally I rolled behind a DMs screen at the time and the player of said paladin suspected strongly that I was cheating and moved the screen after I announced the result of a series of attacks on him.
This was a breach of protocol, but I wasn't too hard on him because I knew he was frustrated.
You see, it turns out I HAD fudged that round of attacks on him. There were in fact three of four hits as I'd said. What I hadn't said, and what I fudged, was that 2 of those 3 hits were crits (in those days only a 20 was a potential crit at most tables, and nearly all crits were just double damage).

I also remember players who had exceptionally good luck pretty consistently on rolling characters, and players who had the reverse. One player was consistently unable to roll characters in the same ballpark as the others (note that all were rolled with my dice in front of me, and I had tons of six-siders). Finally I just made it practice to roll all of his characters for him. Another player had consistently excellent luck rolling hit points (he was a fighter and they got up to 9d10 hit points in those days). All of these things were witnessed and above the board. Be careful levelling accusations of cheating when you're working with small samples of data.

[Lamontius]

is there like a filter you can apply to a thread where you can not see jaded advice or terrible ideas that will make the players virulently hate their gm or vice-versa

i hope it is in the queue before the sarcasm filter and the filter that edits out all the posts where I express fear that Ross Byers and Chris Lambertz are going to see me at a convention and punch me right in my face at the exact same time

[_Cobalt_]

Is there something you would suggest, Lamontius, or are you just going to tell everyone their ideas stink?

[Bruunwald]

Here's what I did.

1. Suspected a player was cheating.

2. Had a conversation with the most reliable player at the table to get his thoughts on the matter.

3. He confirmed that he had suspected the same thing.

4. Sat the reliable player near to the cheating player to help me keep an eye on him. The closeness of the reliable player curbed the cheating behavior for awhile.

5. Eventually, when the reliable player moved away, I enlisted the help of a new reliable player from my other group (I would have liked to have just gotten rid of the cheater, but the politics of that move are fodder for an entire thread on their own). That worked for awhile.

6. Finally got sick of having to think about it, and stopped that game.

7. Continued on with a newly reformed group sans the offending player.

[Expostfacto]

Imbicatus wrote:

I have no problem with rolling three dice at once for iterative attacks, but you damn well better declare the order by color before you roll.

I've never had the cheater problem and play with longtime friends. But we all have the declared dice rule, it helps speed up turns when martials have to roll anywhere from 3-7 d20s at a time.