The problem with "quest doors": Breaking stuff is ridiculously easy.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Tarantula wrote:
Taking 10/20 is for using skills. Burst door is a strength check. Ergo, you can't take 20 on it

Actually, you can. As you said, if bursting a door is a Strength check...Bolded for relevant text.

PRD wrote:
Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks.

Of course, it can be argued whether you can take 20 or not given the requirement of having plenty of time, no threats, no distractions, and no penalty for failure. But that would depend on the circumstances.

PRD wrote:
When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.


I wish there was a "drop microphone" emote, so I could have typed it after I posted the rule. Alas, the internet hasn't evolved to that point ;)


Awww snap! Can't be right 100% of the time.

The Exchange

A rare and treasured thing to say on any messageboard. I salute you!


Tarantula wrote:
Serisan wrote:

Solution: The door is really just a mechanism for causing some other opening or scene change to occur. Example: Putting the key in the "door" causes a spiral staircase going down to open from a previously flat floor elsewhere in the room. Breaking the door does nothing to allow passage anywhere.

Alternative solution: The real door is a secret one behind a bookcase.

So if they cast knock.... what happens?
Knock wrote:

Knock

School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 2

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)

Target one door, box, or chest with an area of up to 10 sq. ft./level

Duration instantaneous; see text

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

Knock opens stuck, barred, or locked doors, as well as those subject to hold portal or arcane lock. When you complete the casting of this spell, make a caster level check against the DC of the lock with a +10 bonus. If successful, knock opens up to two means of closure. This spell opens secret doors, as well as locked or trick-opening boxes or chests. It also loosens welds, shackles, or chains (provided they serve to hold something shut). If used to open an arcane locked door, the spell does not remove the arcane lock but simply suspends its functioning for 10 minutes. In all other cases, the door does not relock itself or become stuck again on its own. Knock does not raise barred gates or similar impediments (such as a portcullis), nor does it affect ropes, vines, and the like. The effect is limited by the area. Each casting can undo as many as two means of preventing access.

Looks like a whole lot of nothin', Tarantula. The mechanism looks like a door, but it isn't. Depending on the design of the stairwell idea, it might simply be too large for the spell to work.


Aww, I'd hope you'd at least let the door open (they had to build the mechanisms in there somehow) and they could see that it was attached to *something* in the wall. Then they could at least see there is a reason to hunt out the key.

Or smash gears in frustration. You know, whatever.


Have things guarded by door mimics that adhere themselves to the doorframe. If somebody tries to break through the door, they might lose their weapon and the mimic will take exception.

However, the mimic will move aside for anybody that can feed it a sweet, delicious key.

Sovereign Court

I don't think doors are ridiculously easy to break. I think anyone who expects that an inanimate obstacle will suffice to bulwark the plot is just being a bit naive about that.

IRL, when no-gooders are confronted with a door (safe, bunker) they don't INSIST on finding the key. They weigh the options: opening it with some blowtorch or explosives, finding the key, forging the key, tricking someone into opening it, going through the wall next to it and so forth. Contraints play a role: technical expertise, how hard it would be to get the key, how much notice will be attracted by brute force, how much time before police response arrives.

Go watch some heist movies. Keys aren't always the approach taken. Often the approach is much more creative than a key.

You can create some constraints to force your players to be creative, but keep in mind that what you've put before them is an engineering problem, not something that should be done one way and one way only.

Brute force might not be the best way; it would draw enemy response due to noise, and take long enough that buffs will run out or that enemies can buff up. Can the players really cope with an entire dungeon level at once? If not, then they'll probably want to come up with some scheme to do it a different way.

Shadow Lodge

Pupsocket wrote:
However, "Nearly impossible" is apparently hardness 12, 120 hp. A first level character with str 18, power attack and a greataxe, will do an evenly distributed average of 3,75 damage per round, breaking through in 32 rounds,

I personally am not willing to roll damage dice for attacking that door ~32 times.

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