why did you wipe?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I have played dnd for over 10 years and have yet to experience a TPK. Some times we have been close, but we soldom lose more than 1 person.

What made your TPK happen? Angry dm, dumb players or just bad luck?

Dark Archive

Poor life choices, every time.


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Because it's extremely nasty not to? I mean ewwww.

I'm just here for the bad joke, don't mind me. Never had a TPK on either side of the screen yet.


Ninja'ed by Rynjin. Because my mother told me, and it sticks to my underpants if I don't?

Real answer: Bad luck, missing something (weapon for DR, class for damage output, spell like protection vs evil, ...). Never had a TPK in a published adventure, only with DIY GM's. And well, he liked to win (either bad guys or npc's).


I've been playing and GMing RPGs for over 20 years, and have never witnessed an unintended TPK.

.

.

I have been in games where the entire party died, but it has always been a case where the GM and/or players intended it to happen.

A positive example:
I played an excellent game of Cthulu Bunnies & Burrows that Randy Milholland ran at Intercon a few years ago. We played bunnies, in a dark dark world, eventually going insane and [unspeakable] before we [unspeakable], and eventually [unspeakable] and ate the corpse. Great fun!

A negative example:
At a different convention I was signed up to play D&D with Gary Gygax. I gave up my seat to a kid and observed instead. I can sum up the remainder of the experience in three words, Tomb of Horrors.


I've never had a TPK while I was the DM, but had several close calls. I'm not perfect, sometimes I make mistakes and set up an encounter that's way too tough for the players. Maybe they just had a goofy set of classes and had glaring weaknesses, maybe the monster was from a 3PP and it's CR was severely understated, or maybe the players picked a fight with someone they really, really, should not have(which falls back on me as DM for having this person around the scene in the first place).

Spoiler:

I once had the players in a tavern, and had Strahd Von Zarovich arrive in disguise, searching for a certain female NPC in the background(he does this from time to time). The players jumped on him for "harassing" the tavern-goers, and despite my multiple attempts to withdraw Strahd out of the scene and spare their level 7 lives, they kept pushing and pushing, finally striking him with a Lightning Bolt as he tried to ride away.

I was going to have him disappear, but this is Strahd we're talking about. There's no way he'd stand for such insolence, in his homeland, in front of other townsfolk, even in disguise. So, he mutilated the PC who fired the bolt. *Maximized Fireball followed up with a Quickened Lightning Bolt, tore off the PC's head, stuck it on a pike, and rode off into the night.

Just to be a good sport, I told the players after the encounter was over who the mysterious man really was, and they were shocked. The player of the now-dead PC was actually happy; he was honored to have gone down in such a blaze of glory, picking a fight with the Dark Lord of the Realms himself.

Happy as he was though, I learned not to leave NPC's like that lying around the potential of over-zealous PC's again. As a bit of a disclaimer; this was my first actual D&D campaign I ever ran, so I had a lot to learn.

*As an aside, the PC now qualified for being brought back as a Zombie Lord from Van Richten's Book of the Walking Dead. The player was pretty happy about this too; he bowed out due to work scheduling, but gave me full rights to use his PC as a NPC Zombie Lord in later adventures.

Sure, I could be a killer DM and just say "hey, they mad their choice, a TPK was well deserved." But, TPK's are not fun. So, yes; I fudged some die rolls in my time. But, more often than not, it's because I chose an encounter that was too powerful for the group, not the group being ill-prepared. I'd feel terrible wiping out a group because I failed to notice this particular monster was immune too all forms of attack the group had available to them.

I've been a player in games where we wiped, and it usually fell down to some of the reason I gave above; the DM picked something way out of our league, and a TPK was inevitably, barring everyone rolling consistent natural 20's all night.

Sometimes... The dice just want blood, and demand PC sacrifice. My special "DM Dice" LOVE to kill players. In combat, I never roll below a 17, except in rare cases. But when I use the same dice as a player, I hardly roll over a 5.


I have committed three TPKs. The second and third I attribute to the players' choices. The first, when I was a teenager, I attribute to my boredom.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Our games always end in TPKs. We're not terribly good at RPGs, I suspect, but generally play APs/modules as written.

Somewhere around 6th to 8th level we typically bump into something we can hardly hit who just wipes us out.


I had to pull a Deus Ex Machina last weekend because I accidentally made an encounter that would have caused a TPK. Really it was just an Aboleth with 4 levels of wizard (those wizard levels didn't even do anything besides giving it a few hit points and wasting two rounds on unsuccessfully casting wizard spells) against a party of 5 level 8 characters with a summoner cohort and a Roc AC.
After it had successfully dominated the archer-ranger, the AC and the ninja, everything went out of control. I couldn't fudge what the players were rolling against each other, so three characters died. Two of them were brought back by the macguffin, the third couldn't be, because he was in the starting party and they basically started the game being resurrected by the macguffin (and everyone only gets one resurrect). Then i had an Elder Thing the ranger freed earlier come in and pick the last 10 hit points off the aboleth and save the dying cohort (I just assumed a few levels of cleric on the elder thing, that was entirely improvised anyway).

So I TPKed accidentally. Or would have.

What I learned is that Aboleths are the s**t, if i had played it a little smarter (i was playing deliberately badly, as i just had the creature let itself be surrounded, and not even use most of its at-wills) even a normal CR 7 Aboleth without class levels could have wiped them out, just by having them kill each other.


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Always caused by one miscreant in the party.

As a GM, playing Shadowrun in the Harlequin module (excellent if you can find one by the way) in one scenario the players achieve the final goal of the adventure, have the item literally in hand, as coincidentally one of the scout PCs gets discovered by an armed guard. I ask the PC scout, "What do you do?" He says, "I detonate my C4 charge" which he had in hand, and was about to arm and place on a helicopter. The helicopter was the theoretical escape vehicle, but the interesting part we discovered was that the PC was also carrying an additional 18 KILOS of C12(a condensed form of c4). The ensuing crater could be seen from orbit, needless to say no one within 3/4 of a mile survived.

As a player, we were in the Underdark and we encountered a beholder in a short narrow stone hallway. The party wizard at the rear of the party cast a lightning bolt through the party and it rebounded (old rules D&D) about 40 times, blasting all of us, including the beholder, instantly to dust. It was intentional for some reason, this person is broken.


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Josh M. wrote:
Sometimes... The dice just want blood, and demand PC sacrifice. My special "DM Dice" LOVE to kill players. In combat, I never roll below a 17, except in rare cases. But when I use the same dice as a player, I hardly roll over a 5.

Haha my players have called my black die the "soul die" because I take it out when the fight is going too fast on their side. And when it comes out, it had a tendency to be the end of a player character on the table. No fudging or anything.

They tremble at the sight, but sometimes, they even ask for it... Literally! :D

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The witch stayed 100ft away from the main battle. The enemy half-dragon flew straight to her and proceeded to murder her while none of the rest of the party could come to her aid. By the time the half-dragon came back still fresh, we were worn down, and couldn't keep up with the maneuverability or damage he was putting out.

Liberty's Edge

I've always avoided the TPK in fantasy games, unless it was just a matter of PC suicide. I've had to fudge a bit, pull a couple of deus ex machinas, and the like...but as long as it's just bad rolls or expectations gone south, I don't let it bother me. Horror games are a bit different...

It seems like many years ago I was involved in a couple as a player, but I don't recall details.

The closest I've ever seen to a TPK with no fudging and amazing luck both ways was a solo Clr3 trying to escape a city being war-torn...there were orcs at the gate...using greataxes...one crit left the cleric with 1 hp. She was able to back off just far enough to heal enough to survive the rest of the fight, but 2 NPCs died in the process...


45d6 fire damage in a 20 foot aoe trap, undetectable because the trigger was behind the door not on it, whereupon the boss and his minions were in the room that we opened so we didn't get a perception to see the trap.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I remember one time when I annoyed my fellow players by averting a TPK. The monsters had killed the rest of the party, and my PC was standing alone on the battlefield with no enemies next to him -- so of course I ran away, since I could think of no in-character reason for my character to fight to the death with no support.


I've had a few TPKs in the last month (as a player) and a fair number as a DM over the years.

A recurring element in TPKs I am involved in is a missing player. Recently, our maul (earthbreaker) Paladin didn't show up and, not having a tank or a single target DPS machine, the party fell to zombies and a quasit (after some failed will saves).

I ran a party through the first chapter of a campaign I wrote and the party succumbed in the end to a skum attack... because the guy who was supposed to play the healer was unable to play.

I've had two TPKs from DM additions to APLs. I've also seen TPKs happen when the PCs pursue some goal that logic might otherwise tell them isn't a good idea (in a CoC campaign I ran the players failed horribly on a series of library use checks and - with no info - broke into an asylum only to be picked off one by one by a proto-shoggoth).

[semiofftopic]I really dislike when DMs fudge the dice to keep the party alive; it kills any interest in the game I have[/semiofftopic]

Generally, TPKs happen because...

...the party isn't built well (either due to lack of coordination or because someone didn't show)
...the party tries to do something they can't, but that isn't necessary to the plot
...the party splits up or is forced to split up


Theodor Snuddletusk wrote:

I have played dnd for over 10 years and have yet to experience a TPK. Some times we have been close, but we soldom lose more than 1 person.

What made your TPK happen? Angry dm, dumb players or just bad luck?

I had a DM who was running Skulls & Shackles strictly by the book. We had five level three characters toward the end of the first module when we encountered a time crunch. We had extremely limited time to get through a series of tunnels before they became flooded and then we encountered a nasty mini-boss that was large. It was aquatic in a water environment and had reach, cleave, total concealment, and nauseated half our party for 1d4 rounds. Oh... did I mention that it had cleave? Or that it could grapple any one of the remaining party members that wasn't nauseated. Once we did half it's HP in damage it grabbed the bard and dragged her under and into another cave. And guess what that cave was filled with the real boss and her allies... and guess what... right after that we were supposed to start a mutiny.

Leason... water encounters against aquatic beings are tough, like double the CR tough. Sure we could have run from the encounter, but then we would have lost an NPC ally (remember that time crunch). Without that ally there was no way the mutiny would have worked.

We started that night knowing there was a potential for TPK and we did everything we could to avoid it, but the fact is that encounter was too much for us. Sure the DM could have fudged it, but from the very start he made it clear he was going to run the module as written. We all agreed and in the end it was a fun time.


C'mon! who DIDN'T see the jokes coming?!?!?!

Anywho, no TPK experienced...yet. However, in a different game system my character died because the GM rolled three natural 20's!!!

Never heard sooooo many damage dice being rolled before!

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

I think I've only ever had one party wipe as a player, and that had a lot to do with an over-confident party underestimating their opponents (kobolds), helped along substantially by a wizard who wasn't as careful as he should have been with not catching party members in AoE spells.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Haven't had a TPK yet, but have gotten really close.

Two leading causes of near TPKs:
1. Bad tactics - things like not focusing the caster, hugging each other to let the caster Fireball all of you at once, etc.
2. Lack of preparation - the party didn't do research beforehand, and was caught completely unprepared to deal with a flying demon, shadows, etc.

I've generally found PC deaths happen because of bad luck, TPKs happen because of bad decisions. This is assuming, of course, the GM is not going out of their way to kill the party or tossing something that is clearly too difficult.


We had a BBEG fight that probably SHOULD have been a TPK - it ended up being really close, and I suspect the GM fudged a bit for us. It was entirely due to hideously bad tactics by most of the party.

CSB:

BBEG is performing a ritual during a storm using an artifact that grants massive metamagic powers. The party is attempting to put together an attack plan, but spends a lot of time dithering and arguing about it. My bard/rogue said, "right, I'll go get in position while you guys figure out what you're going to do" and split off to go hide.

The party EVENTUALLY decides to cast silence on themselves to conceal their approach, but they've spent so much time arguing and otherwise failing to be stealthy that they've already caught the attention of the villains. However, they cast silence on themselves before they can hear the BBEG issue orders to his men to "get them" - and they also miss that he is beginning to call upon the artifact to bombard them with empowered flamestrikes. My character, of course, sees/hears all of this happening - but has no way of letting the party know.

So after the group gets nut-punched by several metamagicked spells and mooks showing up on the flanks, I have to send my PC out to try and take out the BBEG all by himself. I have a powerful sleep poison on my dagger, but I suck at combat. I need to roll close to a 20 to hit him, and he (a mid to high level cleric) needs to fail his fort save (only a 1 or 2 would have worked). Miraculously, both happen, and the main enemy spellcaster goes down after that one shot. Then, the party spends the next 6-10 rounds brutally slugging it out with the mooks, and barely surviving.

So yeah, by all accounts, we should have wiped there.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Most recent: a player squabble over loot that didn't go down well (always have a charter, check the articles of various pirates). The Sorcerer decides to 'back-stab' the Wizard in the midst of the very next BBEG combat near total party wipe within one round. I managed to Rogue my way out of the fight (gotta love Evasion) but fell to the pursuit as I scaled the vines to escape.

Liberty's Edge

Bored Dm. I've had a few TPK but they have always been when the same DM became bored with the campaign and wanted a change.


I had one pretty bad one last year. The players stumbled across some tombs, and cracked one open. The creature inside was pretty powerful, and due the fact I roll a lot of crits, sheer luck, they nearly died.

But, then the 'must gain epic lootz' player decided he wanted to open another. I asked if he wanted it to stand, "Sure, I do." So, they all died cause I fudged to keep them alive the previous encounter.

I told them they gave up the loot from the tomb, and I would erase their future with my godlike powers. They agreed.

Definitely a poor player decided there. One scary melee/caster kicks your butt you shouldn't go for another round.


In the strictest technical sense, I've never GM'ed or suffered a TPK, mainly because we've only been wiped out by intelligent creatures who saw captives as far more valuable than corpses. The one non-intelligent near-TPK I was running as a GM was saved by GM fiat.

(1) The Great Troll Massacre. I was GM.
I play my monsters as living, breathing, thinking creatures. So they have schedules. In my Runequest game, the two shifts of highly-competent great trolls would meet in the kitchen during their shift change to have a snack and discuss anything the previous shift had seen out of the ordinary.
The party decided to camp overnight in the kitchen.
Wiped half the party, ransomed the other half after they threw down their weapons and surrendered.

(2) Those darned goblin dogs, Rise of the Runelords. I was GM.
At Thistletop, the AE states that Medium-sized PCs are at -4 to hit and -4 AC when in the tunnels. This nearly wiped out my group, so after two of them were down, I dropped it to -2/-2. Voila! The party survived and killed off the dogs. Seriously, -4/-4 isn't something you spring on 3rd level PCs.

(3) Unicorn riders. I was a player.
We took a wrong turn and were surrounded by 40-odd unicorn riders in Runequest. Our party diplomat made a wonderful speech to them offering them massive amounts of ransom if they would let us surrender. The GM allowed it, not wanting a TPK 2 years into the campaign.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

In my experience, TPKs happen when someone dies/gets knocked unconscious and the party sticks to their standard tactics. If someone goes down and you don't adjust for the gap, you're headed for disaster.


Responding to the dubious title: because I made number 2.
Responding to the op because we didn't take the hint and run away.


Have not been a player in a TPK, but have DM'd two of them (and many, many close calls).

First TPK happened at Gen Con. The module I was running had these nasty dopplegangers and if a PC got separated from the party during the adventure it was assumed (unbeknownst to the PC) that he was replaced by a doppleganger. Two of the 6 PCs were replaced prior to the final boss fight and the result was an easy TPK. I found out later from other GMs running the same module that they went through several TPKs in one module!

Second TPK happened in a homebrew game. All I recall of the night was a bunch of terrible dice rolls by the PCs and decent rolling by me. They fell one by one (or maybe two by two) in futility to the dice gods.

As a player, I was once the sole survivor of a near-TPK. I lucked out with a readied spear against the bad guy's charge attack and skewered him. I walked out of the dungeon with 2 hps and a fat sack of loot. Died the next session on my way back to town as I foolishly tried to rob the lair of 3 owlbears (as a 2nd level mage/thief mind you). Ah, youth is wasted on the young.


I've yet to TPK but I have had all but one of us die. Rise of Runelords, a barbarian kicked open the door and the GM decided that everything in the compound (approximately 4 encounters) on that level triggered at once. None of us even took actions, panicked into dead.


I haven't had a TPK since 3E came out. I came really close, but it took the worse die rolling I have ever seen on the part of the PCs. They couldn't hit squat and couldn't make a save... to, well, save their lives :) They squeaked out of it with 1 PC standing. Usually in 3.x games I may lose a PC and have some beaten up but they make it through. Of course, my PCs are good at it.

I can remember several TPKs back in the 0E / 1E / 2E days. They generally involved a combination of bad luck and bad choices...


I was involved in a TPK toward the end of the first module of Skull and Shackles. Some of those final encounters are just brutal if you get bad rolls.


As a DM I've never had a TPK but I had a party just about TPK itself. This was 1E with the space-filling fireballs. The party was being harassed by one guy who kept taking one shot and running away. A wizard had enough of it and lobbed a fireball down the bearing of the incoming fire. The rest of the party screamed "NO!" when he did it but they were all experienced players, while I would cut a newbie some slack I normally play it you said it, you did it.

The shot was completely blind, he was firing into darkness with no idea of what might be out there beyond their lights. They were in a dungeon with 5' corridors, though.

I was generous enough to let him counterfire perfectly and I ran the fireball straight down the corridor. It didn't smack the shooter as he was doing a shoot-and-scoot (he was in the blast zone and died, though.) The fireball ran out of corridor and burst. I was sitting there with my map counting off squares and describing the fireball coming closer and closer to them--it burned out 5' from the first characters. Anyone who failed their save against it would have been knocked below zero. (I wasn't playing zero = dead but if they had all gone down there would be no rescue.)

As a player I've been in one near-TPK. Nobody died but at the end of the battle the wizard used his last cantrip to finally drop the shadow that had immobilized the rest of us. I think the DM played it wrong, though--while the shadow would have a 50% chance of avoiding damage from the fire in it's square I don't believe it could attack someone without exposing itself to the fire.


Never been a player in a TPK, but did one as the DM once.

My high school group wanted to play Return to the Keep on the Borderlands in 3.5. Unfortunately for them, one of the players had a knack for remembering modules (he once gave another GM turn-for-turn guidance on how to get out of the Temple of Elemental Evil from the third level down, without a map), and he remembered the original module. So the players followed his lead when he stat he wanted to go to a specific cavern on ttheir first foray (all still 1st level).

So, a 40' climb was made, ropes were thrown down and into the caveern they went. Instead of goblins, or whatever they expected, they saw a sleeping troll (see, I was nice, giving them an out). That's when the Chaotic-Stupid Elf of the party decided to shoot the troll with an arrow. Things went downhill from there and ended with the cleric, carrying the unconcious rogue on his shoulder, lost his grip on the rope 30' up.

I actually did not feel pity for them that day.


Only tpk I've ever been a part of is when i was running the DnD encounters at the flgs (( I was REALLY desperate for any kind of d20 action )). I don't remember the exacts, but it was some lizardfolk and a dominated copper wyrmling in a ruin or something. The dragon basically played murder pinball while the lizardfolk got in the way of pcs movement.

For the sake of being nice I had the dragon 'snap out of it' after all the pcs were at negatives since all the lizardfolk were dead too. Passed around some healing potions and that was a wrap for that week.

Silver Crusade

I've never heard many strong arguments not to.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Can't remember experiencing any as a player. As a GM, I've run one and came close to a few others. The actual TPK was the first encounter in The Red Hand of Doom, essentially a random encounter with a hydra. What neither I as GM nor the players understood about the 3E hydra was that it was a vicious exploit monster--it struck me in hindsight that entering melee with a hydra without having the Improved Sunder feat was a death sentence. The melee fighter rushed in and was immediately overwhelmed; now the other PCs needed to save him and engaged, but were overwhelmed in turn.

In a near-TPK (different group, different game), a stealthy PC slipped into a villain's lair to scout (and loot) it, but was captured. The sole other PC watching her back was forced to flee, getting separated from the rest of the party for a few days. Another PC went in after her -- and was immediately captured. Fortunately for all of these PCs, the baddies in that case found the PCs more useful alive than dead, so they all got out alive eventually. Before that came to pass, however, it came down to the last two PCs debating whether the higher moral responsibility was to go in after their lost allies or to cut and run, since they were also watching out for a young NPC.

I'd say the theme connecting the actual TPK and the close calls was player ambivalence. Namely, a foe engages them, and the PCs can't decide whether to take it on or to flee, so rather than doing either, they hang back. One PC ends up closing with the foe (or the foe closes on them), and has to take it on alone while the others urge the PC to flee. Then that PC goes down, and now the other players know they have to try to save that PC, but some of them still want to flee, so another PC jumps in and goes down, then another, and then another.

In action movie terms, the PCs suddenly turn themselves into the stereotypical mooks who line up to take on the big foe one at a time rather than as a coordinated team. Whenever the PCs have immediately engaged a challenging foe as a group, they've always pulled through (with the very occasional lone casualty).


I roll all my dice out in the open.

TPKs happen for any number of reasons. Much of the time it is because I run an open world and the players can't seem to understand when their characters should retreat, or not head Hell bent for leather into danger.


Bad rolls. I used to play Fighter types in AD&D. They would stomp through the encounters. Then invariably, they would fail a saving throw and die.

Of course the TPK I refer to, was an encounter with ghouls. Nobody made their saves. The thief tried to run away, but was too slow. So, everybody died.

All through my 3.5 time, my characters were built to have the best possible saving throws, for the class, because of this.


One time I accidentally the party on a random encounter with an Ice Elemental that was intended to level them up. I threw out xp after that.

Player side I had a GM that loved to 'end' the campaign in a TPK once he got bored. Ironically my characters always survived and thus the party won the game!! :)


I nearly had a TPK on my hands today. Running Rapan Athuk and my PCs came across a high level Vampire Wizard. A surpise round Wail of the Banshee coupled with a failed saving throw from everyone dropped the Psyonic Warrior and Inquisitor to negatives, and our Archer was left at 1 HP. The only one unaffected was our Lich Wizard. They managed to win initiative, even with +18 to init it didn't stop the vamp from rolling a 1, and DPS'd the thing into oblivion with the help of hero points.

Though not a TPK, I've watched two characters die to a circle of death in RotRL due to complete stupidity on a third PC's part.

Spoiler:
The neutral-stupid sorcerer in our party instucted our meat wall of a level 14 commoner friend to start breaking the floors of the Misgivings mansion for s+&&s and giggles, and he did so. When he hit the basement, the lich-house had enough of his shenanigans and circle of death'd us all. The commoner and I failed the save. We were lucky enough to afford a Resurrection for myself, but the commoner stayed quite dead. His main mistake was killing off the Neutral Evil party member who had the morals of psychopath. With the help of the other party members (a Chaotic Neutral and a Lawful Evil) I cornered and killed him the next chance I got. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Hooray for inter-party conflict.


I have sadly had many, many TPKs. And the main reason for them is: All of the above. It's pretty easy to kill off all the PCs when something goes wrong with Boss-type encounters or powerful creatures or forces intended to be bargained with. Sometimes the PCs just attack. Sometimes they use bad tactics like directly charging the slow-moving but otherwise strong ooze. Sometimes I build an NPC with just a little too much synergy or abilities that the PCs cannot handle.

My last TPK was a BBEG cultist cleric with the Penanggalen template (Beastiary 3). It was scaled down slightly for a 3-person party but should have been within the reasonable finale range for the APL of 6 (three level 7 PCs) at CR 8. It was not necessarily intended to be directly faced in combat. But the PCs, of course, attacked. The creature had the Trickery domain, so I mistakenly thought it would be a good idea to give it max ranks in stealth, little considering the implications. The party consisted of one Negative Energy-using cleric and two melee combatants. Because of the template, it was immune to negative energy damage, and had no armor nor armor check penalty. So first round it casts obscuring mist, then proceeds to fly about while using stealth. Second round, while the PCs are still trying to come to terms with what's going on....Confusion spell and instantly two of the three-person party become confused. The one non-confused party member had scent...but due in part to the thing being a boss monster, the thing was able to repeatedly outstealth the remaining PC. Resulting in total concealment despite having its location pinpointed.

Couple (Enemy) Channels later....

The PCs COULD have fled into a room where there was no mist or where the thing had no space to fly around. There WERE a high number of 'acts normally rolls'. But nobody tried to do that :( I do, in retrospect, think that maybe Stealth skill on top of the flying and obscuring mist as well as the thing's OTHER defenses were possibly a little excessive. Oh well.

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