How would you turn a wagon into a battle wagon


Advice


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Early on in our current Kingmaker game, we received a wagon that since then we've used quite a bit (especially one of our two wizards and our sorcerer).

So, seeing as the wagon's become a sort of symbol of our group, I was wondering. What we be some good ways to outfit it? And, probably more importantly, how much would such outfitting cost?

I'm thinking whenever we have the "spare" monies, we could line the outside of it with a tough material, maybe adamantine at some point.

Note: I am a wizard as well and have craft wondrous items and craft magical arms & armor handy. Looking to get craft construct in the late future (lv.10, we just made 5th.) So, if any of these could be used to further improve the wagon, that'd be awesome too.

The Exchange

Darkwood, arrow slits, mithral spikes on the outside, druid to hit it with ironwood before heading on adventures, Wood Shape to make it look cool. Mithral covered wheels and axle, wheel spikes of mithral (and hope to get to run over some lycans at some point!).


Hire the A-Team. They built a tank like vehicle in every episode.
But seriously ...
I would start off with Masterwork Transformation spell. I don't know if your DM would allow the spell to make the wagon masterwork and ready for spells. I guess a wagon would be Wondrous Item. I'm not sure.

Mage's Private Sanctum would be really cool for the inside of the wagon. Once again I don't know if it would be allowed. Plus I believe it can be made permanent.

Maybe use the Craft Armor feat to make shields and decorate the outside of the wagon.

Warhorse and Craft Armor feat should be nice as well. Plus you could add enhancements to horses armor and shoes like Stoneskin, Haste, Bull's Strength, Protection from Arrows, Protection from Evil, etc...

Is there any rule that says that a construct (golem) has to be a humaniod shape? Maybe a golem that is a wagon. I remember an Arcane Discovery that allowed you to make golems but did not require all the items feats needed to make it.

I think your on to something here. Good luck building your battle wagon. Let us know what you did so we can read how it all came together.

Sovereign Court

You could try this.

Edit: Damn ninja'd at least I have a link!


Take a look at the Siege Weapon rules. There's a few lighter options that would work well in a wagon. I recommend a light Ballista and/or a light Bombard.

Also, look into Animate Object to turn your wagon into a truck.


Is this pure Pathfinder or a mix of 3.5 and PF?

Step One: Replaces the Horses. Or Oxen, or Mules, or whatever you have pulling the thing. One of the main reason we never saw medieval tanks is that the herd you'd need to pull it would be too easy to kill. Replace this either with spell-powered minions, cheap Undead (Skeletal Horses are amazing, and arrow-resistant too!), or an Animal Companion or the like that's specialized to pull the thing and can be retrieved when needed.
If you're using a 3.5/PF mix, check out Heroes of Battle for a nice cheap Construct steed that can pull it (and shoot Scorching Rays from its eyes...).
Step One-Point-Five: If you have the money and are using actual creatures to haul it, splurge some cheap cash for Horseshoes of a Zephyr and you'll likely double its speed.

Step Two: Uparmor it. This is completely dependent on the current weight of the wagon VS the draft animal's pulling strength. Adding armor to it is possible to increase the AC and any 'layers' foes would need to cut through to get to it. Line the top with a 'short' wall that you can kneel behind so that you can gain cover and still shoot or 'jump off' if you have to. (Having a completely covered top will prevent the party melee guy from sallying forth easily while still keeping the squishies safe.)
Step Two-Point-Five: Uparmor your mounts, should you have them and they can survive carrying the barding.

Step Three: Upgrade weapons. Spikes are rather silly on it, as are the wheel variety, unless you often find yourself doing Ben-Hur style chariot battles in the thing. Doomed Hero's idea of a Siege Weapon works. Best option will probably be a Light Ballista, as technically it only takes one guy to use the thing (having multiples helps with reloads, likely you'll just get one or two shots off anyway), though Cannon could be neat if allowed. Avoid things like catapults and trebuches, they are only really good for shooting fortifications, and if it's just you in a lone wagon that probably won't fly too well. Siege Weapons require the necessary Feat to not get the -4 Penalty, but apparently Siege Firearms can use the Firearms proficiency to work, so if you have a Gunslinger you're golden.

Doomed Hero's idea of Animating it works great too, if you can. Just don't do it permanently, as that'll cost you a buttload when it dies or it will get dispelled repeatedly by magic using foes and hoover up spare gold. Cast it normally, or try to convince the DM to let you craft a 1/Day Wondrous Item that can cast it, in which case you can take that with you into the dungeon to use with some other clever item.


Some very good ideas here, thanks everyone.

I definitely love the idea of animating the wagon. As a wizard I don't straight up have the spell, but I may be able to work with my DM on "researching" either a spell like it, or a spell the rides / drives an object you're currently riding.

I also agree upgraded weaponry would be of help, if not to just make sure that we aren't losing our spells for no reason. I shall look into a light ballista for sure.

Armor is indeed an interesting aspect. Mithral makes sense for the light weight aspect, adamantie would be great for the sheer hardness of it. Mithral at least has a cost per lbs.

One I had see on a different thread was a built in trapdoor in the back, big enough for one person. Lever would be inside of course. Hit the lever and the trap door lets a melee person out.

I was thinking it'd be nice to have some sort of wondrous item made for brief periods of flight. Like, oh there's a cliff with a deep ravine. Hits a switch and flies over.

Thanks again for the suggestions thus far everyone.


Only problem with the trapdoor is the height of the wagon. If it's a "normal" wagon, there's not enough room for him to stand up. And crawling sucks unless you have feats or items for it, as you move in 5' chunks.

So you then either have a 'monster truck' wagon (good luck convincing the DM with that, especially with creatures of the right size to pull it!) where people have to climb up into the thing with ladders, or you have a normal size wagon that poops out the party Fighter onto his face and he either has to wait for the wagon to roll past so he can spend a Move getting back up, or he has to crawl in the dirt (if it's not moving) to find a spot to stand up and loses even more actions. Both options have issues, and one of those is rather humiliating for the poor Fighter.

You can have a normal 'door' where someone opens it and then closes it behind him, but then you face issues of who's going to waste the actions to deploy the meatshield. Is someone going to Move it open, delay, then Move it shut (and perhaps Move the next round to lock it) so the Fighter can deploy, or is the Fighter going to have to open his own doors and have someone shut and lock it behind him? Plus, if the enemies are sapient and possessing some strategy, they might ready actions to chuck in bombs/spells that do AoE and almost the entire party is at risk.

Go with the 'baby battlement' route and he can stay under cover until necessary and then just leap over the thing and go smash face without taking time out from someone else's fun. Maybe he can be the guy that fires the Ballista too before jumping off to go smash faces. At worst he's got merely 'normal' cover but has the HP to back it up, at best this means the other guys can contribute without having to spend actions on him and stay safe the whole time.


cast levitate on the wagon and fly on the animal for short flights. Overland flight works for longer ones. You can really add on the pounds with Mule back cords and a heavy lift belt.

Light Med Heavy
Horse 3600 7200 10800
Zombie 4800 9600 14400

Bison 9600 19200 28800
Zombie 11040 22080 33120

Elephant 28800 57600 86400
Zombie 57600 115200 172800

Mastodon 74880 149760 224650
Zombie 100800 201600 302400

Th down side to zombies is the single move each round but skeleton has the same base strength as its base creature.

An zombie Mastodon can pull an Abrams tank and only be at medium encumbrance. I doubt you can make you wagon weigh more then that.


This is the "wagon" my Alchemist built in a game I'm in here on the boards.

It looks like a giant green and black wolf and is pulled by two trained Ankhegs. It is armored with Ankheg chitin (for weight and Acid Resistance)and has some impressive weapon systems, including a launcher for the Large Returning Trident we picked up.


You might want to check out this movie trailer.

Here's a still of the wagon.


@ Vod - Well if anything, I may have to see if I can get that song they sing about the war wagon. It's kind of catchy.


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The War Wagon.

There you go.

Grand Lodge

Craft Construct.

Animated Object with Construct Modifications.


HA! My group will probably love this. Thanks.

Grand Lodge

Weapon Modifications to add some Ripsaw Glaives.

Chainsaw War Wagon.


Also watch Puss in Boots, the Shrek spin off - Jack and Jill have a pretty cool battle wagon.


Wouldn't most wagons break an axle when you start adding slabs of adamantine to it? You might be better of designing a new wagon from the ground up.


Animate a Fast Zombie Purple Worm and call it a day. Or better yet make it skeletal so you can build a fortress inside his rib cage.


Writer wrote:
Animate a Fast Zombie Purple Worm and call it a day. Or better yet make it skeletal so you can build a fortress inside his rib cage.

Brilliant


Animate it!

A typical wagon would be a Huge animate object... which gives you 7 construction points to work with.

2 - metal
2 - trample
The last 3 to increase its movement (or perhaps add an additional movement mode)

Think it'd be kinda cool having your wagon running down the bad guys...

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