How Not To Learn From History When Making War (but not Love).


Off-Topic Discussions


example Alpha:

1. Napoleon Invades Russia 1812
Napoleon was a great general, but even a great general has an off day. The little Frenchman must have been really off his nut when he decided to invade Russia in the dead of winter. Although Napoleon took Moscow with many losses, he lost more men on the frozen march back to France. In total, half a million soldiers were killed during the entire debacle and many were forced to eat substandard cheese and wine. Napoleon regretted this and his appearance in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Fortunately, no one would be stupid enough to ever repeat this mistake.

2. Hitler Invades Russia 1941
Adolf Hitler, never a good student of history, decided to exactly what Napoleon did, only more evil. In a plan called Operation Barbarossa, Hitler betrayed his former ally, Stalin, and invaded with 4.5 million troops. Things actually went worse for Hitler, as he attempted to occupy Russia. That was kind of like sending four cops to occupy all of South Central L.A. Overstretched and pounded by winter, the Nazis were killed, captured or routed by the Commies. Hitler and Stalin never spoke again.

example Bravo:

1. The Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan 1979
Also known as the “Soviet's Vietnam" or the “Big Russian Suck", Leonid Brezhnev got the bright idea to invade Afghanistan one day. After ten years of letting Osama Bin Laden kill their troops, the Russians wised up and left just in time for their entire country to collapse. America won the Cold War shortly thereafter and no one would be stupid enough to ever repeat this mistake again!

2. The US Invasion of Afghanistan 2001
Called by retired Lt. General [REDACTED] as the “greatest strategic disaster in United States history", the invasion of Afghanistan continues to be a long, drawn out occupation that has expanded into Pakistan. Started by George W. Bush and continued by President Barack Obama, occupation continues to be about as much fun as paying a guy to kick you in the nads every five minutes.

(HOWEVER, atleast we got dibs on the Lithium mines. Ha ha Russia.)


Yet strange how it works when the geography is reversed - namely how close the Golden Hoard came to conquering most of Europe - damn that resin in the bows!


You forgot the invasion of Afghanistan by Imperial Great Britain. The Soviets didn't study their history, either.


Fabius Maximus wrote:
You forgot the invasion of Afghanistan by Imperial Great Britain. The Soviets didn't study their history, either.

Even the Afghans can't control Afghanistan!


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"Never get involved in a land war in Asia" - Fezzik


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Xabulba wrote:
"Never get involved in a land war in Asia" - Fezzik

Fezzik was the giant. You're thinking of Vizinni.


Doug's Workshop wrote:
Xabulba wrote:
"Never get involved in a land war in Asia" - Vazzini
Fezzik was the giant. You're thinking of Vizinni.

D'oh. Fixed


Inconceivable!


Jail House Rock wrote:


Adolf Hitler, never a good student of history, decided to exactly what Napoleon did, only more evil. In a plan called Operation Barbarossa, Hitler betrayed his former ally, Stalin, and invaded with 4.5 million troops.

Hitler and Stalin were never allies. The Soviets and Germans had a non-aggression pact for a little bit under two years, but promising not to shiv each other (while mutually sharpening knives in preparation for the inevitable shivapalooza) is hardly the same thing as an alliance.


"History repeats itself; first as tragedy, then as farce."
--Darl Jubannich


Alexander the great, ghengis khan, mughal empires, all felt they had conquered afghanistan, but really got a kickin there in the long run. Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.


There was even the Transoxiana empire in the making which had all the right potential to take over lots of territory in the world, but the reason we dont hear about them, the second area they invaded, was afghanistan. Parallel to a super epic 35 point build party starting level 2 off with attacking the annual convention of elite combat dragons. With all that blood in the soil you,d thing it would be more lush there. They should be winning rose gardener of the year since Alexander the great.


Blood is rather salty.

Lightminder wrote:
Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.

That's because it is not - contrary to popular opinion, and much like communism - a system of government.

"You want me to pay what? And work for who? Sure. But first, let's play a game of hide and seek..."


Someone recently wrote a book called "return of a king" It details all the parallells between the british invasion and the us one. (half fogged semi awake rememberings of the daily show? )

Karzai and the guy the british put in charge are from the same tribe

The same tribe that opposed the british tribe and eventually killed their stooge is still giving us hell.


52 Blocks wrote:

example Bravo:

2. The US Invasion of Afghanistan 2001
Called by retired Lt. General [REDACTED] as the “greatest strategic disaster in United States history", the invasion of Afghanistan continues to be a long, drawn out occupation that has expanded into Pakistan. Started by George W. Bush and continued by President Barack Obama, occupation continues to be about as much fun as paying a guy to kick you in the nads every five minutes....

Example Bravo 2 is solidified.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens Subscriber

It seems that countries in which the military plays a huge role tend to start a war they cannot win sooner or later - or in some cases, several wars that end badly. If a hammer is the only tool you have, everything looks like a nail at some point. Too bad if you have to work on windows...

I almost hate to say it, but the US seems to have had no luck in picking its wars after WW2. It goes without saying the the losers in any wars are the normal soldiers on both sides anyway, to say nothing about civilians in the invaded areas.


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Lightminder wrote:

Alexander the great, ghengis khan, mughal empires, all felt they had conquered afghanistan, but really got a kickin there in the long run. Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.

I dunno, if the American occupation is still going strong in the 23rd century, then we can start calling Greek rule in Bactria short.


Fabius Maximus wrote:

Blood is rather salty.

Lightminder wrote:
Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.

That's because it is not - contrary to popular opinion, and much like communism - a system of government.

"You want me to pay what? And work for who? Sure. But first, let's play a game of hide and seek..."

Well... I always thought the Quran was pretty clear on how the government should work. YMMV.


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Sissyl wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Lightminder wrote:
Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.

That's because it is not - contrary to popular opinion, and much like communism - a system of government.

"You want me to pay what? And work for who? Sure. But first, let's play a game of hide and seek..."

Well... I always thought the Quran was pretty clear on how the government should work. YMMV.

We can tell that's true by how all the Muslim countries have the same form of government.

Mind you, even if it was true, that would be like saying "only Democracy successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time." It's not that Islam isn't a system of government, it's that Islam isn't a foreign country.


Sissyl wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:

Blood is rather salty.

Lightminder wrote:
Only Islam successfully invaded it and stayed for any length of time.

That's because it is not - contrary to popular opinion, and much like communism - a system of government.

"You want me to pay what? And work for who? Sure. But first, let's play a game of hide and seek..."

Well... I always thought the Quran was pretty clear on how the government should work. YMMV.

Define "pretty clear" in context to Islam.

Sure, there are ideas about policital organization in there, but you find those in Marx' works, as well. That doesn't mean they contain a whole framework on which a state can be founded, like in Rousseau's The Social Contract, for example.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Green Left Eye wrote:
Jail House Rock wrote:


Adolf Hitler, never a good student of history, decided to exactly what Napoleon did, only more evil. In a plan called Operation Barbarossa, Hitler betrayed his former ally, Stalin, and invaded with 4.5 million troops.

Hitler and Stalin were never allies. The Soviets and Germans had a non-aggression pact for a little bit under two years, but promising not to shiv each other (while mutually sharpening knives in preparation for the inevitable shivapalooza) is hardly the same thing as an alliance.

Well while you might argue that Germany never considered itself allies with the Soviets. I think one could argue quite differently that Stalin did indeed feel as though they were allied. It was called a non-aggression pact but acted like an alliance. They split up eastern Europe between them. The Soviets were taken quite by surprise when the Germans attacked in 41. There was hardly much knife sharpening as you call it from the Soviets side of things. They were extremely unprepared for the attack despite Stalin's generals and intelligence telling him an attack by the Germans was eminent. The Soviets provided huge amounts of raw materials which they then used in the attack against the Soviets. I hardly think if they had been planning to renege on this pact that they would send all that material. It is my humble opinion that while the alliance maybe one sided the Soviets certainly were not expecting to go to war with the Germans.


strayshift wrote:
Yet strange how it works when the geography is reversed - namely how close the Golden Hoard came to conquering most of Europe - damn that resin in the bows!

It's pretty interesting (or terrifying) only internal politics stopped the Hoard. But, *we* (humans) would still be the same today. In the modified-today, there would still be cars and video games.

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