Is there any Devil version of a Succubus?


Advice


Or really any devil with high cha that can alter it's shape. Be better if the CR is less then 10.


It's called an Incubus CR 6. Different stat block and no kiss though.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
fictionfan wrote:
Or really any devil with high cha that can alter it's shape. Be better is the CR was less then 10.

To my knowledge, the closest thing would be a handmaiden devil/gylou; unfortunately, they are CR 14. If you are the DM, though, you could simply refluff the succubus by replacing the chaotic and demon subtypes with lawful and devil subtypes, then rename it, creating a devil that seduces and manipulates people into Hell's grasp.

Edit: Incubi are demons...


I believe there is a Pleasure Devil in the 3.5 book on Devils (analogous to Book of the Damned, Vol 1).


Incubus are male, but they are still demons. I need a devil. I keep looking, but oddly I can't seem to find a shape-changing tricky devil. You would think it would be more common with and the stories about tricky contracts.

I am not the DM however I have a home-brewed thing similar to planer ally, but it works better with devils.


fictionfan, you were just given the recipe to solve your situation by Luthorne.


gnomersy wrote:
It's called an Incubus CR 6. Different stat block and no kiss though.

An Incubus, is the male form of a succubus.

The only truly female formed Devil's I can think of are the Erinyes. Beautiful, Angelic forms, but generally not seducers, though the occasionally anomaly does happen.


Luthorne wrote:

... If you are the DM, though, you could simply refluff the succubus by replacing the chaotic and demon subtypes with lawful and devil subtypes, then rename it, creating a devil that seduces and manipulates people into Hell's grasp.

Edit: Incubi are demons...

Or take an erinyes and add shape change.

Refluffing is your friend.


Many devils have powerful illusion abilities; any of them could (say) have disguise self added as a spell-like ability.


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fictionfan wrote:

Incubus are male, but they are still demons. I need a devil. I keep looking, but oddly I can't seem to find a shape-changing tricky devil. You would think it would be more common with and the stories about tricky contracts.

I am not the DM however I have a home-brewed thing similar to planer ally, but it works better with devils.

Devils are more into making mortals willingly sign their souls away, and will likely rather put legal loopholes and strings into the contract, making it hard to know exactly what you're signing, than trick the person into signing the contract in the first place.

If it's devilish contracts you want, you might want to check out Bestiary 3's Contract Devil.


tonyz wrote:
Many devils have powerful illusion abilities; any of them could (say) have disguise self added as a spell-like ability.

Looking for that oddly not finding it it. There are a lot of them that can turn invisible, but not finding any that can convince someone they are not a devil. Most of them only seem only to have combat powers not much subtle.


Considering they have virtually infinate resources give an appropriate devil the magical items needed to make it happen. Eventually finding out that the would be seducer is actually one of the more grotesque devil types is just icing on the cake.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Many of the less powerful devils tend to be soldiers, scouts, assassins, and enforcers, it's only once you start going up the ranks that the trickier devils such as the belier devil/Bdellavritra, the previously mentioned contract devil/Phistophilus, the apostate devil/Deimavigga (found in Book of the Damned: Princes of Darkness), and as I already mentioned, the handmaiden devil/Gylou that represent the trickier devils, all of which are well above CR 10. As I already mentioned, I would talk with your DM about either altering an existing devil, creating a devil variant of the succubus, or something else along those lines, since I don't believe there is a devil under CR 10 that matches your needs.

Edit: Alternatively, as Belazoar suggested, an item that allows such a transformation or disguise, such as the humble hat of disguise, or the greater hat of disguise would work fine, or even a less powerful devil with class levels that would allow them to cast spells to disguise themselves.


The Tome of Horrors is 3rd party, but has Lilin it is a devil version of a succubus at cr 6, but has no shape change, being focused on at will charm and suggestion.

The Infernal Syndrome: Council of thieves 4 has the Cabal Devil, CR10 and closer to what you seem to be looking for.


The Erinyes does have a Minor Image (DC 17) ability, as an at will.

Scarab Sages

Take an Erinyes and give her Bard levels. Bardic abilities and spells will give you Charm, Fascinate, and Alter Self.


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I think the issue here is the nature of the creatures themselves. Demons are CHAOTIC - trickery is not just something they favor, it's what they are MADE OF. Devils on the other hand are LAWFUL - they don't resort to trickery as a means to fulfill their purpose (sure, some have invisibility or mirror image, etc., mainly for self defense, but their purpose of leading mortals into damnation is fulfilled generally without overt deception).

Seducing a person to drain their energy and steal their soul is what Demons do, so the only fiend type that really specializes in this is the demonic succubus.

Sure, a GM could blur the lines. Heaven knows (no pun intended) those lines get blurred all the time, and in our real world, demon/devil are nearly synonymous. But D&D and subsequently Pathfinder, created a distinction. I would be wary of accidentally breaking that distinction because that can be a slippery slope - do it deliberately if you want, but otherwise, if trickery and seduction is your goal, a succubus is your girl.


An Imp can change its shape, albeit only in an animal form.


What's the name of the India/hindu themed evil outsider from... Bestiary II or III. I think they have a "hate the color red" weakness, they spread lust and disease IIRC from the book. They might fit.


That's a Div and not a Devil, Shoulder.


I could see Devils having a more open, direct approach than the average Succubus.
"Hi. I'm a Devil. I want your soul. I can give you your heart's desire in return. Would you be interested in a deal?"


I would suggest taking an existing devil and either swapping out a SLA for disguise self, or just adding one or two levels of sorcerer.


RJGrady wrote:
I would suggest taking an existing devil and either swapping out a SLA for disguise self, or just adding one or two levels of sorcerer.

This is, thematically, a bad idea. Devils are about as inclined to be deceitful (at least regarding their core purpose of leading mortals into damnation) as fire elementals are inclined to be wet. They CANNOT be deceitful because they are MADE OF LAW, the same way a fire elemental is made of fire. Exactly the same way.

If a GM wants to throw that theme out the window, that's fine. In fact, it could be really fun to play a game where devils are tricky, fire elemntals are wet, and red dragons breath cones of frost. IF that is what the GM is trying to do, then this is an awesome idea. But if he still wants his fiends to behave within the established thematic norms, then it's a bad idea to make devils act like demons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Imps can Polymorph.

Liberty's Edge

That is an Imp’s purpose. They are designed to be companions to spell casters and such not cause the populace to burn the offending spell caster in righteous cleansing fire by consorting with demons.

This is also a defence not a seduction technique for them to be able to wander around and not get lynched.

You could call them the exception that proves the rule for the lower power Devils.

I believe DM Blake has it right.

Sic

Edit: Consorting with Demons/Devils/Div etc all the same to torch burning fanatic commoner with no ranks in Knowledge Planes

Scarab Sages

DM_Blake wrote:
RJGrady wrote:
I would suggest taking an existing devil and either swapping out a SLA for disguise self, or just adding one or two levels of sorcerer.

This is, thematically, a bad idea. Devils are about as inclined to be deceitful (at least regarding their core purpose of leading mortals into damnation) as fire elementals are inclined to be wet. They CANNOT be deceitful because they are MADE OF LAW, the same way a fire elemental is made of fire. Exactly the same way.

If a GM wants to throw that theme out the window, that's fine. In fact, it could be really fun to play a game where devils are tricky, fire elemntals are wet, and red dragons breath cones of frost. IF that is what the GM is trying to do, then this is an awesome idea. But if he still wants his fiends to behave within the established thematic norms, then it's a bad idea to make devils act like demons.

Yes, Devil are lawful, but that doesn't mean they are above trickery and temptation to getting their goals. Asmodeus grants clerics the Trickery domain after all.


Imbicatus wrote:
Yes, Devil are lawful, but that doesn't mean they are above trickery and temptation to getting their goals. Asmodeus grants clerics the Trickery domain after all.

Yeah, that really stinks by the way. I suspect it was a mental lapse on the part of a writer who felt like Azzy needed one more domain but couldn't think of a good one. I fluff it by assuming Azzy finds the idea both reprehensible and antithetical to his very existence, but he understands that this is not true of mortal clerics so grants that domain to these lesser beings so that they can survive long enough to do his bidding, despite the fact that the notion of actually using these spells himself is almost incomprehensible to him.

On the other hand, there are times a devil knows he is tricking a mortal. For example, when a devil writes up a 10-page contract for services rendered and deliberately leaves loopholes in the contract so that the devil doesn't have to do his part, or so that the devil gets more than the mortal assumes. This isn't "trickery" so much as it is "obfuscation" or "confusion". After all, the contract CLEARLY states that these terms and loopholes exist and the devil is 100% willing to follow that contract perfectly; it's not the devil's fault if the stupid mortal can't read and understand the contract, is it? I imagine a devil takes immense delight in fooling foolish mortals through stuff like this - perfectly lawful, perfectly deceitful.

Unfortunately, the Trickery domain is not limited to just that kind of trickery, but I might, as a DM, caution a player who worships Azzy and chooses that domain that Azzy won't approve of his devoted cleric deliberately engaging in chaotic behavior.


NECRO BUMP!!!!

This thread has relevance to my current needs, as I also am looking for a devil equivalent to the Succubus.

In my research I have discovered that in 4e the succubi were actually devils (not demons) but had a NE alignment.

I'm also looking into some sort of binding magic that a true devil could use on a succubus to enslave her, impart fake memories into her, and use her to manipulate and control an NPC.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The Contract Devil. He wants your soul and is willing to pay you whatever you want for it no matter how stupid that want is.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The Contract Devil. He wants your soul and is willing to pay you whatever you want for it no matter how stupid that want is.


There is the [self promotion] addiction devil (amazing art) in Wayfinder #11 (free) [/self promotion].


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doc the grey wrote:
The Contract Devil. He wants your soul and is willing to pay you whatever you want for it no matter how stupid that want is.

See this is the sort of bias I have to work against. "OOOH You're a Devil! You want my soul!"

No! No I do not want your pitiful excuse of a soul. IF that's ALL you have to trade honestly your bargain can easily be handled by an imp, and quite frankly whatever you are wanting could probably be had for a simple blood sacrifice or something.

It's a very rare mortal soul that has intrinsic value. Most of the soul trades or loopy contracts people ascribe to us are actually the work of night hags or the like. Our contracts are very plain, and straight forward. IF you have a soul with actual value AND you decide to trade it to me you WILL know that you are doing exactly that and what you are getting in return, and anything that will void the contract to your misfortune, as well as what will void it to your fortune.

Because I have no reason to try and hide the details from you. That sort of predatory practice can often void the contract in the first place.

Mortals... I swear they get the news wrong worse than CNN.


master_marshmallow wrote:
I'm also looking into some sort of binding magic that a true devil could use on a succubus to enslave her, impart fake memories into her, and use her to manipulate and control an NPC.

Hmm... planar binding + modify memory would be easy enough.. but the hard part is finding a devil with both of those abilities.


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DM_Blake wrote:
Devils are about as inclined to be deceitful (at least regarding their core purpose of leading mortals into damnation) as fire elementals are inclined to be wet. They CANNOT be deceitful because they are MADE OF LAW, the same way a fire elemental is made of fire. Exactly the same way.

I gotta disagree with you wholeheartedly on this one.

Lawful =/= Honest.
Lawful means they live by strict rules and will not go against them (being Lawful by nature instead of by choice makes this especially true for L outsiders like Devils).

So, for example, if the code that Devils live by is something like, "You must trick and deceive mortals so that they give their souls willingly and never forcefully take them," that means that trickery and illusion and what not are going to be 2nd nature to said Devils.


I ended up using a half-succubus template on a Hellspawn tiefling, and just giving it class levels.


...
I *know* there's a writeup somewhere about a guy using drugs and orgies to make people sign infernal contracts in a drugged-up stupor. When he tries to make contact with the infernal duke he serves, said duke basically replies "Yeah, you're not nearly bringing in enough souls, here, have an Erinyes, she's going to whip your orgies into shape. If you do well, she'll serve you. If you do poorly, she's serve you to me on a silver plater."

I'll try tracking it down, there should only be so many named Erinyes...


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That's from Hell Unleashed. The erinyes devil is Terindelle, who's working with a cleric of Alichino (The Jester Prince, Golarion's malebranche) named Zeffiro Lesiege.

Being lawful doesn't prevent devils from committing fraud, murder, rape, and other crimes in the slightest.

(And frankly, what a denizen of Hell actually views as a crime is probably quite different from what a mortal would view as a crime.)

Being lawful has nothing to do with being honest. (As best I can tell, Asmodeus is only routinely honest with those who he actually respects. And there's not that many entities that Asmodeus actually respects.)

Being lawful just means being dedicated to some flavor of Order (and often, obedience.) The good-evil axis is more relevant for what a lawful creature is willing to do in service of said Order.

Also, Inner Sea Gods introduced the Accomplice Devil, a CR 4 servant of Asmodeus who should fill the succubus niche quite handily (they're always male but like their succubus counterparts can transform into humanoids of any gender).


master_marshmallow wrote:

NECRO BUMP!!!!

This thread has relevance to my current needs, as I also am looking for a devil equivalent to the Succubus.

When you say "equivalent to the Succubus", what exactly are you thinking of? A high-Cha enchanter who uses dominations and suggestions? A slinky, sexy seductress? A manipulator?

Quote:
I'm also looking into some sort of binding magic that a true devil could use on a succubus to enslave her, impart fake memories into her, and use her to manipulate and control an NPC.

1) If you have half an hour, go look up "DMDM's Guide to Planar Binding". If you have another half hour, look up "DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist". Not directly on topic, but possibly of interest. A strong binder who knows a succubus' true name might be what you're looking for.

2) Does it have to be enslavement? What about employment? Here's a post from a few years ago about the Sisters Market, which is basically Craigslist for fiends. If that doesn't work for you, well, there are other possibilities -- what could you use to either bribe or blackmail a demon?

Doug M.


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Zhangar wrote:

That's from Hell Unleashed. The erinyes devil is Terindelle, who's working with a cleric of Alichino (The Jester Prince, Golarion's malebranche) named Zeffiro Lesiege.

Being lawful doesn't prevent devils from committing fraud, murder, rape, and other crimes in the slightest.

Ahhh, yes, thank you.

And yeah. Being Lawful just means that Devils feel obligued to hold any deals they make, and expect any deals made with them to be held in return.
If they can force you or trick you into making a deal that's grossly disadvantageous to you? Well, then that just shows that you're weak in mind and didn't deserve any better, but you may feel free to look for loopholes to abuse anyway. If you do the same to them? Then they were weak and didn't deserve any better, but they'll still look for loopholes allowing them to ruin you even as they serve you.
They're loyal to their word and their deals, never to you, and there's no reason to advertise that they're devils - the contract is all that matters. If you can't keep track of the fine print, then that's your problem, not theirs.

Shadow Lodge

The accomplice devil linked above is particularly clear on the fact that devils in Pathfinder are particularly willing to deceive.

I think it's actually the succubus that's unusual among demons. Most of them are more blatantly destructive - and treacherous, yes, but not exactly sneaky about it.

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
2) Does it have to be enslavement? What about employment? Here's a post from a few years ago about the Sisters Market, which is basically Craigslist for fiends. If that doesn't work for you, well, there are other possibilities -- what could you use to either bribe or blackmail a demon?

Love the Sister's Market.


I was considering the same issue for my diabolist in an upcoming campaign. I decided this is the appropriate time to just go ahead and use simulacrum to make a succubus, because they really can't be trusted unless you weird science one yourself.

Liberty's Edge

Lastoth wrote:
I was considering the same issue for my diabolist in an upcoming campaign. I decided this is the appropriate time to just go ahead and use simulacrum to make a succubus, because they really can't be trusted unless you weird science one yourself.

Succubi aren't any more immune to Diplomacy than anyone else with Cha 26. Just win them over and you'll be fine. ;)

Note: Only people with really high Diplomacy (and Sense Motive, to tell whether the succubus is legit) should even attempt this. Still, make 'em helpful and it's pretty workable. Plus, if you get them to give you their name (not True Name, just enough to summon them with Planar Binding), then you can summon 'em back any time, and they're suddenly very likely to think through the full consequences of betraying someone who can and will kill them if betrayed.

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