Does Butterfly Sting stack with itself?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

If I had Improved Crit/Keen while TWF kukri, and I confirmed multiple crits with Butterfly Sting, can I choose to give all those crits to my team mates or do I have to take the remaining crits? I looked around and no one else seems to answer the question, and if it doesn't stack the d20 normally says it blatantly but...I don't wanna assume anything haha.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Prd wrote:

Butterfly’s Sting (Critical)

You can forgo a critical hit in order to pass it on to an ally.
Prerequisite: Combat Expertise.
Benefit: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.

I don't see a limitation on the number of crits you can pass.

If you confirm 3 crits, and your allies hit the creature three times, those hits crit. If they only hit twice, that crit is lost... so make sure your allies can hit!


What if two characters both have butterfly sting? Do they crit every hit, but if they also crit on thier roll could they pass another crit along?


Um... no.

You are your own ally, so you can only ever pass one critical.

Jaxtile, I have no idea what you are saying.


Jaxtile seems to be suggesting a situation where you have three party members--Characters A, B, and C--and A and B have Buttefly Sting.

Character A hits first, confirms a crit, and passes it along using Butterfly Sting, because he's a duelist rogue and wants someone harder-hitting to get it.

Character B, the party's TWF ranger, unleashes a series of strikes, connecting a couple times. However, he wants to let the heavy-hitter to get the crit, so he ALSO passes it on with Butterfly Sting.

Finally, Character C, the frothing-at-the-mouth Vital Striker Barbarian with a Scythe is up. He hits, of course, and deals MASSIVE damage. Fun is had by all.

I personally think it should work. The feat says that you have to "confirm a critical hit" to pass it on, and also says the next ally "automatically confirms the hit as a critical." So, it should work.

Why two people need Butterfly Sting is beyond me, though. It'd be better to just have someone delay, I should think.


Loup Blanc wrote:
I personally think it should work. The feat says that you have to "confirm a critical hit" to pass it on, and also says the next ally "automatically confirms the hit as a critical." So, it should work.

Yeah I agree. The idea was to have a support fighter. I would throw keen kukri from a distance to rack up crits and pass them on. Was also planning on having a knife that was anchoring+called+impervious to keep baddies back. Maybe put designating, greater on a kukri huehuehue


Yeah, it would work.

But why doesn't character B just simply delay his action until after character C takes his initiative? Better yet, why doesn't character A simply delay his initiative to directly before character C?

With some basic combat tactics there is absolutely no need for multiple characters with BFS.


awp832 wrote:

Um... no.

You are your own ally, so you can only ever pass one critical.

Jaxtile, I have no idea what you are saying.

Would that mean you can use butterfly sting with two weapon fighting to get crits with a keen Kukri in one hand and take them with the light pick in the other hand?


Artoo wrote:
you can use butterfly sting with two weapon fighting to get crits with a keen Kukri in one hand and take them with the light pick in the other hand?

Should work, yes.


While I understand the concept of you are your own ally, can you be "the next ally" from your own hits? If not, which is how I read it, you cannot then auto crit for yourself.

Dark Archive

Butterfly's Sting, Outflank, Bard.

Butterfly's Sting, confirming then passing the critical triggers Outflank for your BSF to AoO. He gets +5 to +9 ATK (for inspire courage and flank bonus) so basically an auto hit/crit. Which guess what, triggers the bard's Outflank.

Introducing the WOMBO Combo done pathfinder style.

That said, your DM will get hip to the jive. So if he says outflank can't be triggered off of your confirmed critical that you pass along. You simply AoO off of each of your BSF's crits... here's how.

You crit a target, your turn ends. BSF auto crits, you AoO with Outflank. If you crit again, your BSF's next attack will also auto crit. Lather Rinse Repeat.

If that isn't enough hilarity for you. Here's the blender combo.

Dodge + Mobility + Spring Attack + WWA OR Power Attack + Cleave + Great Cleave (depending on your bard stats)

You move in, WWA or Great Cleave. BSF moves in behind you, and auto crit cleaves.

The point of the above is to that you don't have to try so hard to abuse a single feat by two people having it, when there are so many other feats you can combine together to achieve the same thing only better. And a sane DM will eventually ban bards from your game, or just those feats. A wise dm will leave it well enough alone because it's based on even getting a crit and just start throwing crit immune monsters at you every so often so other characters get some spotlight. Only a poor DM would break up the combo since not one but multiple characters are investing into something that works together to achieve a goal (survival/victory).


Unless there's been some ruling otherwise, I'm pretty sure you can be the "next ally who hits the creature."

The problem with that is that two-weapon fighting has very strict limitations on how you can split the attacks between the two weapons.

"...once you decide you're using two-weapon fighing...that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack..."

The solution to this is to use flurry of blows. Unfortunately, it's harder then it seems to use flurry of blows or brawler's flurry with a 18-20/x2 weapon and a x4 weapon that you can dual-wield. You'd have to be something like a brawler/sacred fist with the right deity or a sohei/weapon master with weapon training in light blades.

If you can do it, however, it would be really, really, cool. You could even pass on multiple criticals to yourself during the course of one flurry.


Robby the Rogue has 3 attacks and Butterfly Sting
Attack 1: Confirmed crit. Robby decides to pass the crit on.
Attack 2: Hits(auto confirm due to pass on from attack 1). Since this is also a crit Robby can chose to pass this crit on too. Robby chooses to pass this one on too.
Attack 3: Hits(auto confirm due to pass on from attack 2). Since this is also a crit Robby can chose to pass this crit on too. Robby chooses to pass this one on too.


thorin001 wrote:

Robby the Rogue has 3 attacks and Butterfly Sting

Attack 1: Confirmed crit. Robby decides to pass the crit on.
Attack 2: Hits(auto confirm due to pass on from attack 1). Since this is also a crit Robby can chose to pass this crit on too. Robby chooses to pass this one on too.
Attack 3: Hits(auto confirm due to pass on from attack 2). Since this is also a crit Robby can chose to pass this crit on too. Robby chooses to pass this one on too.

And here lies the reason it is impossible to pass on multiple crits with Butterfly Sting. You don't *roll* any further crits your turn if you keep passing it on. You just keep passing on the first one.

However, it does make perfect sense with TWF and a pick in your off hand (or, if you're greedy, in your primary hand). Here's why.

Improved Two Weapon Fighting:

In addition to the standard single extra attack you get with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, albeit at a –5 penalty.

Since your normal attacks for an ITWF go like this...
18/18/13/13/8
This means that your "second attack with your off-hand weapon" is a 13, so your primary must hit with one 18, and your secondary with the other.
In this case, it starts Primary, then Secondary, then Primary, then Secondary, and finishes with Primary. So the ideal situation is to have the Primary set up crits for the Secondary and hope the last Primary crits just to pass it on, or be selfish and take the Pick in your Primary hand. Now you still get the same two chances to pass a crit on to your pick, don't have a chance to pass a crit to a team mate (unless you for some reason choose not to pass it to your last pick attack), but get your full Str to your heavy Crit.

Both good options, I feel.


I still think flurrying works a good deal better. You even get full strength on each attack.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Does Butterfly Sting stack with itself? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions