Ultimate Campaign... Mythic ... Then what?


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Terokai wrote:
Jim, I never meant to frustrate I was only pointing out that the rules are already being written so it doesnt make a lot of sense for another rule version to be made. I understand though and apologize that my post came off harshly however it does seem that if we want paizo to write everything why have 3rd party publishers at all who can pick up the slack in areas where paizo may not be focusing? everyone's mileage may vary but just pointing out an alternative.

I think in this specific case there is room for both, as I imagine if Paizo comes up with a psychic magic/psionic system, it will look dramatically different from Dreamscarred Press's. And I have a feeling the people who like DSP's will be less fans of Paizo's and the people who like Paizo's will be less fans of DSPs, so it's not a case where one draws away from another--each group's fans keep their fans. And in the best case, people like both and buy both, applying whatever they need for a given campaign, and everybody wins.

Look, honestly, I'm not a big fan of psionics myself. I like them for sci-fi and "weirder" fantasy settings, but I don't feel a dramatic need for them in standard adventure fantasy like what Paizo produces. If Paizo never produced psionic rules I would be just fine and happy. And yet at the same time, I know a lot of people would like to see Paizo's take on the concept, and that as Jim pointed out earlier in the thread, they've even made room for psionics to exist in their campaign setting, they've just not filled in the rules yet.

I think you are absolutely right in your concern that Paizo leaves gaps for 3PPs to fill in.

But I think this is a particular case where there would not be an issue of a moderately sized beast stepping on the little guy's toes. Or at least--that it could be avoided as long as all parties involved were aware of the potential issues. Especially as AFAIK, Paizo's always been very supportive of both 3PPs in general and DSP's efforts to "Pathfinderize" 3.x psionics specifically.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

First off, we're cool. I didn't mean to be harsh. Peace! :)

And let's continue the discussion in a friendly way.

Terokai wrote:
I was only pointing out that the rules are already being written so it doesn't make a lot of sense for another rule version to be made.

I would agree with you, if Paizo was willing to use DSP's ruleset. The problem for me is that anything I would use Unlimited Psionics for would be homebrew. Does that make sense?

Granted, there are other campaign settings I could use besides Golarion, and DSP is producing an AP. I choose to use Golarion, however—I write for the product line. I have a lot of money invested in it. I have a lot of myself invested in it. I have some differences of opinion with the Developers (which I keep to myself), but basically I really like Golarion.

I want to be able to open a Paizo module and see a psychic based character. I want to see monsters like serpentfolk, the neh-thalggu, and the intellect devourer in my Adventure Path chapters with psychic base class levels. I want to make up NPCs with psychic abilities and include them in my turnovers.

That will not happen if Paizo does not write their own style of psychic magic.

DSP's rules don't help me. I believe they are a good product. I own them. But since they won't be used in the other products I buy, and they don't save me any time—they're not doing me any good. I'm really sorry to you and DSP about that, but "it is what it is".

Terokai wrote:
It does seem that if we want paizo to write everything why have 3rd party publishers at all who can pick up the slack in areas where paizo may not be focusing?

I don't know.

But there are different types of consumers and gamers. One thing I have tried to explain is that I use mostly Golarion content. Not all GMs are like me.

And, many people like the "points" driven system that DSP offers, and they're willing to invest their money in their products. I don't want to take that away from them. That's why you have 3rd Party Publishers.

Just because I want Paizo to do their own version doesn't mean that DSP just "goes away".

Does that make sense?

Liberty's Edge

Fair enough Jim :) I also love Golarion and am looking forward to whats coming down the pipe for it.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Terokai wrote:
Fair enough Jim :) I also love Golarion and am looking forward to whats coming down the pipe for it.

Don't let me beat you down though, or give up your love for DSP's products!

Deathquaker is right, there is room enough in the world for both!


DaveMage wrote:
If I had to guess, I would guess a "Manual of the Planes" type book would be next (or next year). Now that they have mythic rules, they are free to open up these kinds of possibilities. Plus, "The Great Beyond", the 64-page planar book was for 3.5.

Perhaps an "Ultimate Planes" book, but "Planes of Golarion" would be a rather different book.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
DaveMage wrote:
Plus, "The Great Beyond", the 64-page planar book was for 3.5.

There's nothing in "The Great Beyond" that needs a mechanical overhaul to the Pathfinder RPG. All the creatures have been redone in Bestiary 2, and there are no other mechanics in that book.


I would love a hardcover book for the planes.

A hardcover book with real world religions(Aztec, greek, norse, Japanese, etc.), deities(there domains, favored weapons, etc.), and other related stuff.


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Jim Groves wrote:
Terokai wrote:
Fair enough Jim :) I also love Golarion and am looking forward to whats coming down the pipe for it.

Don't let me beat you down though, or give up your love for DSP's products!

Deathquaker is right, there is room enough in the world for both!

I love reading the Contributors and Paizo guys on the forums, they're so proper, respectful and coherent.

I want Psychic Warriors! I need Jedi in Golarion!

Silver Crusade

Ultimate Feats. This book would have all the feats printed at that time. It would have chapters over per class and the feats that would make that class great. A tree system for different classes as well.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Ultimate Adoptions: The best of 3pp :-)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Alright, based on reading through this thread, I would like to modify my suggestion somewhat.

Advanced Character Guide: A chapter on alternate skill systems, attributes, feat development and balancing; a chapter of options to help GMs build their own classes or modify existing ones to suit personal styles through alternate class and archetype creation; a chapter covering psychic magic with the Psychic Mage alternate sorcerer class and archetypes for other classes; and a chapter for developing campaigns with different levels of magic availability for PCs, from no-magic to magic overload.

Ultimate Challenge: Monster templates, terrain hazards, trap and monster builders. 'Nuff said.


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My suggestion for a next book is:

Advanced Class Guide
Chapter 1: Psychic Magic. Seriously this is taking too long to come out.

Chapter 2: Technology. Numeria and sci-fi high level technology, specially for setting outside Golarion

Chapter 3: Divinity. Godhood with the coming of mythic rules I think we can finally have this.

Chapter 4: Class Builder. With a class system like the one presented in Pathfinder is a need to have a class or archetype for every concept, like something like that is impossible and there will be no more new classes, a class builder is the perfect solution.

Seriously I hope to see at least one of these the next year.

Also I suspect a NPC Codex 2.


A hardcover book for the planes?

Hell.

Yes.

Day 1 baby.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

For me (in no particular order): Psychic, Planar, Monster design / tinkering / templates, Skillmonkey, Environments (including space and underwater).


Joe Wells wrote:

For me (in no particular order): Psychic, Planar, Monster design / tinkering / templates, Skillmonkey, Environments (including space and underwater).

I concur with all of these suggestions.


To be honset I have pretty much everything I will ever need. I can't see them releasing a psionics guide as they said they won't be doing it. The planes guide has already been done, we have enough spells, classes, archtypes, races and equipment to sink a battleship. NPC codex and bestiaries are preety much guarenteed anyway as they are yearly. They have given is a really good campaign guide and a mythic book so they are now done with.

I personally wouldn't want anything conected to modern or anything futuristic (there are other systems for that that would do it better IMHO).

I think i'm at my limit now but if they were to release an environment book and maybe something with advanced clockwork gadgets (kind of similar to di vincis demons type invention, the time period and flavour of pathfinder is kind of a mix of medieval and renisance anyway so it would kind of fit) I may be tempted.

Whatever they bring out I hope they don't overdo things. Sometimes too much becomes bloat and the system becomes unmanagable with too many options, 3.5 needs to be the benchmark I think as by the end the system just became so bogged down with books.


ferrinwulf wrote:

To be honset I have pretty much everything I will ever need. I can't see them releasing a psionics guide as they said they won't be doing it. The planes guide has already been done, we have enough spells, classes, archtypes, races and equipment to sink a battleship. NPC codex and bestiaries are preety much guarenteed anyway as they are yearly. They have given is a really good campaign guide and a mythic book so they are now done with.

I personally wouldn't want anything conected to modern or anything futuristic (there are other systems for that that would do it better IMHO).

I think i'm at my limit now but if they were to release an environment book and maybe something with advanced clockwork gadgets (kind of similar to di vincis demons type invention, the time period and flavour of pathfinder is kind of a mix of medieval and renisance anyway so it would kind of fit) I may be tempted.

Whatever they bring out I hope they don't overdo things. Sometimes too much becomes bloat and the system becomes unmanagable with too many options, 3.5 needs to be the benchmark I think as by the end the system just became so bogged down with books.

They already established a bunch of things in the universe, such as Psychics (Castroval and Vudra) and "Future Tech" (Numeria and one of the other planets). They have things that they've already mentioned a lot that don't have rules. These things need rules for the Pathfinder universe to be truly complete.

We got Robots in the Inner Sea Bestiary, but you still can't really adventure into Numeria with what information we have. Same with other places. There is still plenty for them to cover. And to call it "Medieval/Renaissance" strikes me as in accurate. It seems to extend as far as the 1700's as far as tech and culture goes.


Renaissance period is 1400's to 1700's. :)


ferrinwulf wrote:
Renaissance period is 1400's to 1700's. :)

I guess I was always bound to step into that. I always fight like the Renaissance wasn't cohesive enough to really be attached to dates, but okay, fair enough.


No worries lol personally my betting is on an advanced book of sme sort. The ultimate line has 4 but advanced only has 2. So another players type guide maybe. Could be psionics but they have stated before that the dream scarred book is the psionics book if you want to use it.

Dark Archive

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I've said it before, and I'll yet repeat it again: Ultimate Hazards, a book that contains new traps, hazards, haunts and terrain-related mechanics. I'd buy it instantly, and I think it would sell pretty well overall. :)

Scarab Sages

Ultimate Spells.

Or they could just make the some of the Deep Magic book from Kobold Press PFS legal.

Dark Archive

Casmaron Campaign Setting.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

golem101 wrote:
Casmaron Campaign Setting.

That wouldn't be an RPG line book. :)

Shadow Lodge

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Ultimate Bloat


Asgetrion wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll yet repeat it again: Ultimate Hazards, a book that contains new traps, hazards, haunts and terrain-related mechanics. I'd buy it instantly, and I think it would sell pretty well overall. :)

Call it something more along the lines of Ultimate Environments, include stuff like improved 3-Dimensional navigation (climbing, flying, swimming underwater and uneven/multi-levelled ground) and combat and I'd be all over it.

Not to say i wouldn't be all over it just as you described, but i would be even more all over it.


It's Ultimate Outside!


Not sure if environments (hazards) alone is enough for an entire book, I see this more like a chapter of a Game Mastery Guide 2, actually a Game Mastery Guide 2 will be cool, another chapter I will like to see is a class builder, I really feel is a necessity to have one.

Dark Archive

edduardco wrote:
another chapter I will like to see is a class builder,I really feel is a necessity to have one.

Creature builder more so imo, considering the flood of material that has already been thrown out there for players (Ultimate Campaign included).

At this point the likelihood of a class builder is much greater than a creature one by virtue of their target demographic - players. So a class breakdown guide will likely see the light of day, just not in the immediate future.

Dark Archive

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DeathBecomesus wrote:

Only glanced at Ultimate Campaign, but it sure looks interesting

Of course eagerly awaiting Mythic

But.......... what hardcover books are planned for after that?

What is after Mythic?

Plans for next year or so?

Thanks

Ultimate Brothels is next.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Dark_Mistress wrote:
Ultimate Brothels is next.

Paizo doesn't publish through Kickstarter.

rimshot


Maybe lack of announcements means that Pathfinder 2 is next and they are just waiting for Gencon to reveal it!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns Subscriber

I believe one of nect years HC's will be a Golarion specific hardcover compiling all the deity articles, new domains, feats, spells and perhaps a glimpse into some of the gods avatars now that mythic will be released by then.

I am also hoping for a NPC Codex 2; using classes from the Advanced Players Guide.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Solusek wrote:
Maybe lack of announcements means that Pathfinder 2 is next and they are just waiting for Gencon to reveal it!

No, the reason for a lack of announcements is because there's a set point when they announce the books, the first of which is only two weeks away

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

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Late to the party here, but I think there is a strong chance 'psionics', 'psychic magic', or maybe "Ultimate Brains" will be coming this year. I recall at one point in time James Jacobs suggested both an Epic/ Mythic book and Psionics were important to the game setting and on the schedule. This excites me a lot because psionics books would line up very well with an interplanetary Adventure Path which would be quite awesome.

That would also set up an "Other Worlds" hardcover which could contain information about planar and inter solar destinations.


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I really hope the next book is a psychic magic book with new classes, magic items, traits, archetypes, feats, spells, psychic related monsters and races.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Solusek wrote:
Maybe lack of announcements means that Pathfinder 2 is next and they are just waiting for Gencon to reveal it!

The announcements are on their usual schedule.


I'd like to see a detailed hardcover city setting-like Monte Cooks' Ptolus or the old City State of the Invincible Overlord. Ptolus also contained an entire adventure campaign and City State had a lot of adventure hooks in addition to stats. Too many city books have all descriptive text and no meat.


I'd like to see a hardcover planes book.

Preferably with input from Todd. :)

Dark Archive

edduardco wrote:
Not sure if environments (hazards) alone is enough for an entire book, I see this more like a chapter of a Game Mastery Guide 2, actually a Game Mastery Guide 2 will be cool, another chapter I will like to see is a class builder, I really feel is a necessity to have one.

Yeah, but I suggested (above) that it wouldn't include just hazards and environment-related mechanics, but traps and haunts as well. I think we don't have too many of those yet.

@Yora: Do not mock the ideas of a fiendish Chelaxian dwarf, unless you want to experience a nightly visit from his terrible imp squad! ;)


ferrinwulf wrote:
To be honset I have pretty much everything I will ever need.

I know that feeling, and as far as player resources I would concur. I don't know where they would go to expand on player resources, and given their release schedule, I'm not sure they do either.

The last few releases have been DM resrouces (NPC Codex, Ultimate Campaign) and for that they've been GREAT. I could see them focusing on DM resources. Maybe a release schedule that only includes 3-4 books a year, one is a DM resource, one is a player resource, one is a bestiary, and IF there's a fourth it can be an optional rule-set (Mythic, Psionics, etc.)


Asgetrion wrote:
I've said it before, and I'll yet repeat it again: Ultimate Hazards, a book that contains new traps, hazards, haunts and terrain-related mechanics. I'd buy it instantly, and I think it would sell pretty well overall. :)

Actually...I like this a lot. How about rather than just traps as listed, they have a book of modular trap ROOMS, akin to Grimtooth's Traps (through perhaps less lethal)!

Going along with this, I'd like to see a book of modular mini-adventures. Like, a set of ruins to be discovered that have a short dungeon crawl, perhaps populated with unique monsters or less used monsters from Bestiaries 2-4. Basically a way to fill out a "make it up as you go along" type campaign, rather than adventures.


Sepherum wrote:
I'd like to see a detailed hardcover city setting-like Monte Cooks' Ptolus or the old City State of the Invincible Overlord. Ptolus also contained an entire adventure campaign and City State had a lot of adventure hooks in addition to stats. Too many city books have all descriptive text and no meat.

This. As you might be able to tell from my posts, I like sandbox games but hate doing the work. I also love urban fantasy. I've been brainstorming a campaign that is city and faction based, likely based in Waterdeep.


Auxmaulous wrote:

Creature builder more so imo, considering the flood of material that has already been thrown out there for players (Ultimate Campaign included).

At this point the likelihood of a class builder is much greater than a creature one by virtue of their target demographic - players. So a class breakdown guide will likely see the light of day, just not in the immediate future.

But Bestiary already have a monster builder, or you mean that it should be publish a better one? That would be cool too.


Perhaps an APG 2. I don't think adding too many classes would be a good option, but I think adding a couple classes, like a Spontaneous Druidic "Shaman" class, and a Bard/Inquisitor Druidic character. In addition, I'd like to see some archetypes, like an Oracle Archetype which replaces the Curse, to give options for concepts for spontaneous casters that aren't burdened by a curse, or mountless Cavaliers, and the like.

Grand Lodge

I'd like to see Paizo learn a lot from Wizards treatment of Faerun in the old 3.5 days.

The "Faiths and Deities" book for Faerun back in the day was stunningly beautiful. So many gods! So many stories! So many options for all the classes. I'd love to see the Paizo staff consolidate Golarion's pantheon and put it all in one big hardcover book.

I would also love to see the Paizo staff study how Wizards handled the hardcover book for "Sharn, City of Towers" in the Ebberron setting and write a huge sourcebook on Absalom. It would have a massive guaranteed audience in the PFS campaign and it could provide some great examples of all the cosmopolitan-ness of the city. Different gangs, international interests, histories, dungeons on Kortos, all that awesome stuff. Absalom needs to be deeper, IMHO.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
the Haunted Jester wrote:
I believe one of nect years HC's will be a Golarion specific hardcover compiling all the deity articles, new domains, feats, spells and perhaps a glimpse into some of the gods avatars now that mythic will be released by then.

I would love something like this. The AP deity articles are fantastic, and having them collected in one place would be both useful and cost-effective.

Dark Archive

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edduardco wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:

Creature builder more so imo, considering the flood of material that has already been thrown out there for players (Ultimate Campaign included).

At this point the likelihood of a class builder is much greater than a creature one by virtue of their target demographic - players. So a class breakdown guide will likely see the light of day, just not in the immediate future.

But Bestiary already have a monster builder, or you mean that it should be publish a better one? That would be cool too.

A better one - complete monster ability breakdown, scoring and system for building creatures based on CR. A expanded version of the Race builder in the Advanced Race Guide, just for monsters. A whole book dedicated to the subject.

Plus a template builder. As it stands none of this information exists for PF.

I would like something broader and better than 3rd eds Savage Species (which was just another players race guide) and better than Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary - a book with actual guidelines on making monsters and monster templates. Long overdue.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

ferrinwulf wrote:
Whatever they bring out I hope they don't overdo things. Sometimes too much becomes bloat and the system becomes unmanagable with too many options, 3.5 needs to be the benchmark I think as by the end the system just became so bogged down with books.

The fact that they limit things to 3 hardcovers a year is a huge help here. Plus, one per year tents to be a bestiary/ NPC book which means 2 new major topics per year. It seems like most of the low hanging fruit has been harvested and we're working our way through more niche products. For example, while almost everyone is going to own the APG, Mythic is likely to be less common.

FWIW, I don't believe Paizo ever said they were *never* doing a psionics book, only that it wasn't on the (public) schedule.


There certainly wouldn't be a point in making a pathfinder version of the XPH. Which would be 98% the same as the already existing Psionics Unleashed and Ultimate Psionics, which I think is going to be releases soon.
And by now, everyone who wants XPH style psionic already has that book.

A new psionic system would have to offer something dreastically different, at which point it isn't really psionics anymore.

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