Ultimate Campaign... Mythic ... Then what?


Product Discussion

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My vote is definitely for an Ultimate Intrigue/Adventurer/Scoundrel book.

Combat and Magic both had new classes and then alternate rules, I feel like they could give the Adventurer classes love and give them new tools for politicking and sneaking up on the BBEGs. I wouldn't mind it being two books and giving us more Intrigue and more Adventure options in each >.>

When they did the Dungeoneer non-hardcover, I thought it was going to be their version of Complete Adventurer and got all excited.

I'd love a Ultimate Divinity and Ultimate Psionics down the road also. I wanted to play a Psychic Warrior last game, but 3rd party stuff makes me really wary.


Yora wrote:

Having psionics but stripping it of it's best part?!

Heresy!

I'd rather have a book that converts all spellcasters to spell points and gives augmentation options to all spells.

Then outside of 3rd-party publishers, you're likely out of luck. JJ has gone on record previously stating that spell points wouldn't be used for arcane/divine. Hence, no surprise when they weren't in Ultimate Magic. I believe the whole psychic magic vs. psionics is to underscore the distinction that similar mechanics will be used.

That said, there are excellent 3PP products that do what you want.


Mike Dalrymple wrote:
I think they will make a book like the Inner Sea World Guide, only for the rest of the world. I for one would love to see that. I could see an NPC Codex II for the other classes. I'd like to see less systemic stuff and more fluff myself.

Not for the RPG line, they won't. At least it's not unless they change their "no/minimal Golarion content in the RPG line" approach. Your idea is definitely a candidate for a possible Campaign Setting hardcover, however, I suspect.

Liberty's Edge

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Ultimate Guide to Weight Lifting (so you can carry all the books around)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Stefan Hill wrote:
Ultimate Guide to Weight Lifting (so you can carry all the books around)

That is already available it is called an iPad and/or an internet connection :)


An Hardcover Book on Absalom or Deities Would be sweet

Someone mentioned Ultimate Society that is an awesome idea as well


I'll be waiting for the books on Garund and Vudra as well as Psioni- I mean Psychics.

Silver Crusade

Honestly, I'm kinda rule-d out for a while. I'd love to see more Golarion hardbacks though. So much to explore!

Cast my vote!


I would love something with psionics.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

Ultimate Felines!

To go together with the Campaign Setting release of Kittens of Golarion and the Pathfinder Battles Grumpy Cat miniature.

The Exchange

ErockB wrote:
An Hardcover Book on Absalom

This is something I'd absolutely love. Perhaps they could get it into the RPG line by having a book of rules and techniques for an urban based campaign, and then having half the book be a sample city.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Jim Groves wrote:
Yora wrote:
How would psychic magic be different from psionics?

It would be Paizo's interpretation of psionics. For that very reason, I'm not sure I am the best one to describe what that would look like.

On the other hand, it is possible no one else will reply, so I will answer—but take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not in the office, and I'm not participating in any hypothetical internal meetings about it. And this does not indicate that they're even considering doing it at this time.

(Only that I would like them to)

Psychic magic is an approach to psionics where they treat it like other arcane and divine magic. The practitioners of psychic magic would have base classes, but would probably resemble sorcerers over prepared casters. They would use their powers as "slots" and uses per day, rather than driven by points.

The concept behind that is having a "power" system that works like other systems which already work within the game now. This, opposed to having an entirely different mechanic. This has the advantage of internally consistent rules and GMs don't have to integrate radically different subsystems in what is arguably an already complex game.

Interesting. That's what I've been doing with "psionics" for a revision of d20 Modern I've been working on for fun.


Ultimate villainy, a book on how to optimize your villains, villainous feats and archetypes and all sorts of villainous trickery and magic.

Ultimate subterfuge, a book focusing on skills and sneaky options

NPC codex 2, focusing on classes from the APG, UM and UC

Ultimate secrets, new types of magic like psionics, alien technology and secret lore

Ultimate Mythos, a book focusing solely on the Cthulhu mythos

Liberty's Edge

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DeathBecomesus wrote:

But.......... what hardcover books are planned for after that?

What is after Mythic?

Plans for next year or so?

Thanks

I'm hoping for Ultimate Environment.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

DeathQuaker wrote:
Interesting. That's what I've been doing with "psionics" for a revision of d20 Modern I've been working on for fun.

Cool! That's pretty neat. I wouldn't do a modern setting myself without some psychic abilities.

I think the idea has merit. They have "seeded" the campaign with psionics already.

As a parallel observation, last night James Jacobs was saying in the Paizo Chat that "Mythic adventures have always been in the background of Golarion. Tar-Baphon was always mythic..." and he proceeded to explain that several NPCs and locations have always been considered 'mythic' and just waiting for the rules to catch up with them. In a sense, the campaign was seeded for mythic rules long before they were created.

I think there is something similiar to be said about psychic magic. For example, they have stated that they're avoiding Vudra until such time that they know what they're doing with psychic powers. There are many existing creatures that operate on a "psychic level" like the intellect devourer and the neh-thalggu.

Personally speaking, I think the time has come and I wish they would act on it.

(No disrespect to DSP whatsoever. As a freelancer I want a tool I can actually use in my work with Paizo. I don't do much 3PP at the moment.)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Jim Groves wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Interesting. That's what I've been doing with "psionics" for a revision of d20 Modern I've been working on for fun.
Cool! That's pretty neat. I wouldn't do a modern setting myself without some psychic abilities.

Yeah. I was originally going to skip it and then realized it was needed to fill in some gaps for certain kinds of modern and sci-fi settings. I felt more comfortable working with the "normal" magic system then try to wrangle with 3.5 psionics, which I never grokked very well and felt there were some balance issues, personally.

Quote:


I think the idea has merit. They have "seeded" the campaign with psionics already.

As a parallel observation, last night James Jacobs was saying in the Paizo Chat that "Mythic adventures have always been in the background of Golarion. Tar-Baphon was always mythic..." and he proceeded to explain that several NPCs and locations have always been considered 'mythic' and just waiting for the rules to catch up with them. In a sense, the campaign was seeded for mythic rules long before they were created.

I think there is something similiar to be said about psychic magic. For example, they have stated that they're avoiding Vudra until such time that they know what they're doing with psychic powers. There are many existing creatures that operate on a "psychic level" like the intellect devourer and the neh-thalggu.

I don't play in Golarion much but I will say they are good about leaving the door open for all kinds of possibilities for things to exist in it.

Quote:


Personally speaking, I think the time has come and I wish they would act on it.

(No disrespect to DSP whatsoever. As a freelancer I want a tool I can actually use in my work with Paizo. I don't do much 3PP at the moment.)

I think it's cool there's a 3PP that supports psionics as something closer to the system 3rd ed psionics fans liked.

But I am with you that Paizo should do its own thing--but that also there is room for it in fantasy and that having a system for it therefore would be a good idea.

Also, if it's different enough, people can use DSP or Paizo's or both.

It's not necessarily what I personally want to see next (I'm with other posters on something focusing on skills/dungeoneering) but I think you have a point that there is a niche carved out for it, so one does wonder when it will be filled.


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I'd like for psychic magic from Paizo to be it's own thing. For these reasons.

A) I think that it should be codified with the Vancian system so that it's easier to get into, instead of learning new rules for spellpoints.

B) So they don't step on Dreamscarred's toes. They have a good system out and they don't need to be overshadowed. I'm a full supporter of 3PP and them.

C) I dislike spellpoints. It's a flavor thing. I prefer the ease of Vancian casting to mana points.

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

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Starfinder Superscriber

I'm with Aux. I'd like to see a book talking about how to optimize monsters and villains. Something that really takes into account how awesome PCs can get, and how to provide appropriate challenges without making combats take forever.


I would like to see something for running gritty, low-fantasy campaigns.

Perhaps an Advanced Campaign Guide.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Lakesidefantasy wrote:

I would like to see something for running gritty, low-fantasy campaigns.

Perhaps an Advanced Campaign Guide.

I don't think you can really put out another campaign-named book after releasing something called Ultimate Campaign without making a fool of yourself.


Zaister wrote:
Lakesidefantasy wrote:

I would like to see something for running gritty, low-fantasy campaigns.

Perhaps an Advanced Campaign Guide.

I don't think you can really put out another campaign-named book after releasing something called Ultimate Campaign without making a fool of yourself.

I think the cat is out of the bag on this one, after the disappointment that was Ultimate Magic got released without cantrips...

I would second a Ultimate Sellsword (read: Adventurer)type of book with quirky but playable feats/options for characters of any class. It would be nice if this book also included skillful ways to make use of mundane items because this would go a long way to making skill classes playable again. Moderately expensive mundane gear (1k-10k gp). Class-Agnostic Archetypes which give interesting options for swapping out character feats or attribute bumps. 10-20 actually playable prestige classes (read: NOT PATHS OF PRESTIGE)with a mix of generic and specific but yet broad choices for different character advancements.(like not requiring bravery class feature for a prestige class that a ranger/barbarian/paladin may be interested in, or something that any arcane or divine caster might take) Options for keeping class feature progression when you multiclass. (ie, if a Bard takes Dragon Disciple his casting progression crawls to a halt. 2/3 casting by bard and 2/3 casting from DD. Find some way for the character to advance his performance abilities at 2/3 so his sacrifice is more on par with the Sorcerer who takes DD.)

In general, find ways to make more interesting concepts playable. That would be a great book.


I'd totally buy a book called "The End of Pathfinder: Going back to 3rd Edition D&D".


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Icyshadow wrote:
I'd totally buy a book called "The End of Pathfinder: Going back to 3rd Edition D&D".

Then, why are you even here?


Because there's no ban on 3.5e fans on this forum.

Do you just hate people who disagree with your tastes?

The Exchange

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Icyshadow wrote:
I'd totally buy a book called "The End of Pathfinder: Going back to 3rd Edition D&D".

You know, 3rd is still there Icyshadow. There's tons of books for it. Years of resources as a matter of fact.

You could just get those and run the modules and AP's that Paizo put out with minimal need to adjust things quite honestly.

As a matter of fact, adjusting it backwards to 3rd ed is easier than adjusting 3.5 forwards to pathfinder.

I do however think that suggesting Paizo abandons its entire game so you can get back to mechanics you enjoy more is somewhat in poor taste. You're entitled to an opinion of course. You don't always have to share them though.

Cheers


Sheesh, everyone gets bent the wrong way over what I originally planned as just a joke post. Not that I mind, this is pretty darn hilarious if you ask me :3

I don't mean any offense to you by the way, Wrath. But do keep in mind, people share even more edgy opinions around here willy-nilly.

I'm not the first, and I'm sure as hell not going to be the last :D

The Exchange

Icyshadow wrote:

Sheesh, everyone gets bent the wrong way over what I originally planned as just a joke post. Not that I mind, this is pretty darn hilarious if you ask me :3

I don't mean any offense to you by the way, Wrath. But do keep in mind, people share even more edgy opinions around here willy-nilly.

I'm not the first, and I'm sure as hell not going to be the last :D

None Taken,

Usually I try not to reply to anything like the way I did. This is just how I get around exam marking time sorry to say. I'm getting older and more tetchy too. <sigh> I tend to get overly defensive of Pathfinder itself, and fighters when they get harangued in various threads. I should know better, but then that's what stress and lack of sleep does I guess.

Cheers

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Icyshadow wrote:
I'd totally buy a book called "The End of Pathfinder: Going back to 3rd Edition D&D".

Paizo can't do that, they don't own the rights to "D&D" in any edition. They can use the OGL rules all they like, but they can't ever call it D&D.

I know you were joking (or rather, provoking for the lulz) but still.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Zaister wrote:
Lakesidefantasy wrote:

I would like to see something for running gritty, low-fantasy campaigns.

Perhaps an Advanced Campaign Guide.

I don't think you can really put out another campaign-named book after releasing something called Ultimate Campaign without making a fool of yourself.

I'd like to see an Advanced Game Mastery Guide. The original GMG was broad in scope but only very shallowy touched the topics it covered, and was clearly oriented toward new GMs.

An AGMG that went seriously in depth with advice about world and campaign design, maybe with some random NPC generation tables and solid frameworks for things like low and high fantasy settings would be my dream book.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

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Actually, I know I said I would like psychic magic, but I would also love an Advanced Creature Guide with templates (simple and complex), classes, prestige classes, feats, and special rules for monsters. Advice on advancing a creature or lowering it's HD, but the long way and not with a template. How to build a creature from scratch-I know how as a freelancer, but many do not. With advice on combat and roles. Something inspired by Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, but perhaps broader in scope and done for Pathfinder.

I even created a thread for that in the suggestion forum and it got a lot of support.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Jim Groves wrote:

Actually, I know I said I would like psychic magic, but I would also love an Advanced Creature Guide with templates (simple and complex), classes, prestige classes, feats, and special rules for monsters. Advice on advancing a creature or lowering it's HD, but the long way and not with a template. How to build a creature from scratch-I know how as a freelancer, but many do not. With advice on combat and roles. Something inspired by Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, but perhaps broader in scope and done for Pathfinder.

I even created a thread for that in the suggestion forum and it got a lot of support.

Ooh. I just imagined an archetype or prestige class designed around aerial combat.


You know what? I think it would be nice for a stealth and skill focused book to be the next one. Make something for all those people who want rogues to be more awesome.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Jim Groves wrote:
I would like something on psychic magic. This would help with future exploration of Vudra, and working with concepts like the Dark Tapestry and Mythos monsters.

And with Castrovel.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

I'm guessing Ultimate Space. They published a module, AP issue, and a campaign setting dealing with space. I think Paizo has enough indication that there is interest there.

Topics could include:
space archetypes
new equipment
space ships
new spells for traveling in and surviving in space
planet development system

Another possibility: Eastern Adventures (but I doubt this one)

Topics:
more eastern archtypes
more equipment
discussions on differences between eastern and western cultures

Aside from them, I really don't know where Paizo can go now.


I would love a psychic magic book especially for things like Castrovel, Vudra, Dark Tapestry, etc.

I would really like an Advance Races Guide 2 but this time all chapters devoted to the individual races and just put the RP cost for each race and there abilities in there section. Plus give the non-core races more space, there is more then enough stuff for the core seven.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Dragon78 wrote:
I would really like an Advance Races Guide 2 but this time all chapters devoted to the individual races .... Plus give the non-core races more space, there is more then enough stuff for the core seven.

I'd love to see this. I don't think it is going to have in 2014 though.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Kajehase wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:
I would like something on psychic magic. This would help with future exploration of Vudra, and working with concepts like the Dark Tapestry and Mythos monsters.
And with Castrovel.

Indeed, you and Dragon78 are quite right to remember Castrovel. :)


Jim Groves wrote:

Actually, I know I said I would like psychic magic, but I would also love an Advanced Creature Guide with templates (simple and complex), classes, prestige classes, feats, and special rules for monsters. Advice on advancing a creature or lowering it's HD, but the long way and not with a template. How to build a creature from scratch-I know how as a freelancer, but many do not. With advice on combat and roles. Something inspired by Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, but perhaps broader in scope and done for Pathfinder.

I even created a thread for that in the suggestion forum and it got a lot of support.

+1!

Do you have a link for that other thread?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

goldomark wrote:
Jim Groves wrote:

Actually, I know I said I would like psychic magic, but I would also love an Advanced Creature Guide with templates (simple and complex), classes, prestige classes, feats, and special rules for monsters. Advice on advancing a creature or lowering it's HD, but the long way and not with a template. How to build a creature from scratch-I know how as a freelancer, but many do not. With advice on combat and roles. Something inspired by Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, but perhaps broader in scope and done for Pathfinder.

I even created a thread for that in the suggestion forum and it got a lot of support.

+1!

Do you have a link for that other thread?

Certainly, it is right here!

Actually, credit where credit is due, it was based on a suggestion by James Jacobs. James encouraged the creation of a thread so that the Design Team would see it and see fan based support. He even clarifies his own personal vision for such a book in the thread.

Please, everyone, if you like the idea—please raise the thread from the dead and show your support!


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

I'm guessing Ultimate Space. They published a module, AP issue, and a campaign setting dealing with space. I think Paizo has enough indication that there is interest there.

Topics could include:
space archetypes
new equipment
space ships
new spells for traveling in and surviving in space
planet development system

Twelve year old me would insist on anthropomorphic hippo gunslingers.

On a more serious note, how likely is the idea of Paizo moving forward with psychic magic? It seems like it would severely harm the sales of one of their third party publisher's primary products.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

ZanThrax wrote:
On a more serious note, how likely is the idea of Paizo moving forward with psychic magic? It seems like it would severely harm the sales of one of their third party publisher's primary products.

Psionics via points has very strong support. Enough to fund Psionics Unleashed in advance via Kickstarter. I doubt very much their loyal fan base would abandon them.

And if people wanted to substitute DSP rules for psychic magic, it should be simple and straightforward. That was, after all, DSP's design goal.


Also, various members of Paizo have stated that Power Point based psionics has few fans at Paizo, so it's doubtful that any psionics they did would involve power points.

And to a lot of people, psionics is power points, so there'd be a big difference in the implementation, and thus I don't think much overlap other than the basic design space.


Well in that case, how eager will Paizo be to sink resources into a product that will have a reduced target audience? Presumably not every Pathfinder group will want to add psionics / psychic magic to their game. And if a large portion of those that would already have and are unlikely to switch to the Paizo books then the potential sales might not be high enough to justify creating the books (especially if it's a choice between the psychic magic book(s) and something else that might sell better).

Dark Archive

Jim Groves wrote:

.....but I would also love an Advanced Creature Guide with templates (simple and complex), classes, prestige classes, feats, and special rules for monsters. Advice on advancing a creature or lowering it's HD, but the long way and not with a template. How to build a creature from scratch-I know how as a freelancer, but many do not. With advice on combat and roles. Something inspired by Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, but perhaps broader in scope and done for Pathfinder.

I even created a thread for that in the suggestion forum and it got a lot of support.

This is something that I think should take precedence before any other new "Ultimate" PC related book (with the exception of Ultimate Skill/Rogue style book - in fairness, to those PC types being neglected in the last few years). All the magic variants should be down the list when compared to an Advanced/Ultimate Bestiary release, which IMO should have came out when they released the AGM and APG, or at the start of the Ultimate line.

Mr. Groves, what you have posted here, and what I have stated repeatedly up thread is something that I think that Paizo really needs to address. It's ironic that races got a breakdown/point scoring/new race creation system in hardcover format, but rules for monster/template creation are totally neglected? Even with Mythic rules coming before them, if they ever come out?

Anyway, I won't hold my breath. A monster focused non-bestiary would not yield as many sales as the next "Ultimate NPC Classes" book, or the "Advanced Downtime Guide", so I doubt it would see the light of day. On top of that - breaking down PC available race abilities so things all add up right may work easily for a small set of races, doing the same so every creature's stats/abilities and powers all add up to neat CR would be very tough. Not so much the task itself, but making the reverse engineering process so that the numbers add up to their listed CR without discrepancy could be a problem. I think upon implementing a forensic system, many glaring issues with over or under priced creatures will come to light (as they should, some creatures are way off listed CR).

I would still love to see a book try to cover it though. That plus advanced/simple template entries, template building, monster only feats, special monster rules, monster classes/prestige advancement, monster roles and an ability pick/swap list and slew of other creature related chapters. They could even come out with a template book (PFRPGs Advanced Bestiary) and a second book detailing creature creation and abilities. I think there is a TON of material there…for DMs.
The DM part being the nail in the coffin so I doubt it's coming anytime soon, if ever.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

ZanThrax wrote:
Well in that case, how eager will Paizo be to sink resources into a product that will have a reduced target audience?

I don't think any of us really know.

On either side. However, I can't foresee them dedicated an entire book to the subject. Rather I see the hypothetical book in which psychic magic may appear in being combined with other unrelated content. Perhaps expanded skill based rules? That way the value of the book won't be reduced to a single topic, and may offer something of value to a broad audience.

ZanThrax wrote:
Presumably not every Pathfinder group will want to add psionics / psychic magic to their game. And if a large portion of those that would already have and are unlikely to switch to the Paizo books then the potential sales might not be high enough to justify creating the books (especially if it's a choice between the psychic magic book(s) and something else that might sell better).

I don't know.

I do however strongly suspect they'll never adopt DSP's rule system, so in that case we won't actually see anything like psychic powers in Paizo products and adventures. Both as a fan/customer and as a contracted writer, that would make me sad.

The Zero-Sum outlook unfortunately cuts both ways.

And I don't dislike DSP's products at all and people who I trust, vouch for their rules. However I look at their books and think "Well, that's a great big book of homebrew I don't have time for right now." But listen to me! I'm considering pre-ordering Psionics Unleashed, I can point out my issues with it while still liking their products.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Auxmaulous wrote:

I would still love to see a book try to cover it though. That plus advanced/simple template entries, template building, monster only feats, special monster rules, monster classes/prestige advancement, monster roles and an ability pick/swap list and slew of other creature related chapters. They could even come out with a template book (PFRPGs Advanced Bestiary) and a second book detailing creature creation and abilities. I think there is a TON of material there…for DMs.

The DM part being the nail in the coffin so I doubt it's coming anytime soon, if ever.

I see your point and it is noteworthy. Let me honor that before I present a different perspective. There is certainly some validity to your concerns.

Then I look the NPC Codex, and all the campaign setting material and I scratch my head. While the campaign setting material is just sheer fun to read, technically to practically apply that material you need a GM to present it to players. And the NPC Codex is a big book of NPCs and Iconics. There is some pre-gen value there for PFS, but the amount of player useful content is limited.

Then there was the TSR/WOTC belief that "adventures don't sell." The Adventure Path line has become Paizo's strongest selling product line, even when some groups don't have time to play them all. I see an element of that concern, but there is also evidence to the contrary.

I don't know, I think the jury is still out—but I think it is worth advocating for. If you like the idea, I would heartily recommend giving that thread a bump, or creating a new one. Be vocal and outspoken. I don't think it is beyond the range of possibility.

Liberty's Edge

Just want to throw my two cents in and say that DreamScarred Press has already done psionics for pathfinder and is releasing Ultimate Psionics which is their update to their entire pathfinder compatable psionics line. Plus its getting full hero labs support either from the community or the Hero labs guys themselves. So there is really no need to ask for a Psionics book from paizo. I would rather they focus on other things.


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If I had to guess, I would guess a "Manual of the Planes" type book would be next (or next year). Now that they have mythic rules, they are free to open up these kinds of possibilities. Plus, "The Great Beyond", the 64-page planar book was for 3.5.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Terokai wrote:
So there is really no need to ask for a Psionics book from paizo.

There is a need to ask for psychic magic support from Paizo. The need stems from a desire to see psychic powers and abilities used in Paizo products. Used in Paizo modules and Adventure Path chapters. Paizo will not use DSP's mechanics.

It is the only way I might see this type of ability represented in the Campaign Setting I choose to play in and write for. If I used Dreamscarred Press's rules system I would be spending a lot of time inserting them into into the Paizo products I buy in order to save me time. For me it is not inability to adapt DSP rules, it is time management. I not only write for Paizo, but I use their game products. Pre-written adventures save me time and energy just like everybody else.

A nice chunk of my freelancing goes to pay for the Paizo products that I buy. I try to be as professional as possible on the messageboards as I can be, but I'm a customer too. Once in a while, it's only fair that I can ask for things, just like any other customer. They don't have to listen to me, but I can ask.

Your comment frustrated me. I understand that you want to support DSP, but telling people what they can and can't wish for is not the way to go about it.

Liberty's Edge

Jim, I never meant to frustrate I was only pointing out that the rules are already being written so it doesnt make a lot of sense for another rule version to be made. I understand though and apologize that my post came off harshly however it does seem that if we want paizo to write everything why have 3rd party publishers at all who can pick up the slack in areas where paizo may not be focusing? everyone's mileage may vary but just pointing out an alternative.

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