4-21 Way of the Kirin


GM Discussion

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Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Just downloaded and skimmed. Really excited for my run of it next week. Not sure how well the Defense Points will go over, but hopefully my players will have experience with Defenders of Nesting Swallow. Also, those of us that have First Steps credit on our LL characters are going to be super lucky.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Help me understand. The Chronicle provides a reward for the Lantern Lodge characters. Part of that boon is: "Before August 14, 2013, you may change from Lantern Lodge to a new faction without spending Prestige Points or losing any faction-specific Prestige Awards."

All well and good. How much does switching cost a Lantern Lodge character who does not play this scenario?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I assume it is meant in the same way as selecting a new feat to replace one that is no longer legal for play. You choose a new faction to replace the one that is no longer legal for play, at no cost.

When Season 3 kicked off, characters were allowed a one-time faction change at no cost due to the expanded options. I don't see this as any different.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Question: If I DM this scenario and apply it to a first level PC, does that PC need to hit level 3 before time runs out or is DMing it before the deadline good enough?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Since GMs now get access to boons as well as items, all you need to do is get your GM credit before the deadline. When you apply the credit to the character does not matter, as the date on the chronicle is the date you ran it.

Grand Lodge

So wait,...

:

I can make a new character of the Lantern Lodge faction, GM the game and apply the Lantern Triumph boon to that new level 1 character assuming I GM the game before August 14.

I MAY NOT apply the Lantern Triumph boon to my level 12 pre-existing Lantern Lodge character (who has been Lantern Lodge since they were announced and has never wavered once).

Before the game begins, I can change a pre-existing non Lantern Lodge character to Lantern Lodge by spending a number of Prestige Points equal to 3 times my character level (9 for a level 3, 12 for a level 4, 15 for a level 5, 18 for a level 6, 21 for a level 7).

Once word gets out, I predict that there will be a big wave of level 3 characters spending 9 prestige to get the Lantern Triumph boon. There is no other prestige reward that comes even remotely close to this one.

Of course, as Chris Mortika alludes to, this situation may be different come the August 14 deadline. Development counsel is required.

I don't want to encourage such mercenary gaming, but I've been in PFS long enough to know that gamers gonna game :/

Grand Lodge

Just to make sure I don't sound too nitpicky...

Story stuff:
Just off topic with the boon talk, I am really delighted with the conclusion of the Lantern Lodge story arc. I think it hints at a lot of exciting Tian Xia scenarios in the future. I'd like to see Tsuneo become a regular NPC, almost like a grandfather figure for Amara.

How frigging evil are the Golden League!?! They make the Aspis look like the Silver Crusade!

People have been begging for more 'hold the fort' scenarios for a while now. I expect I'll be giving this one a great rating. I also think that Knowledge: Engineering is about to receive a massive surge in popularity, for certain ballistic reasons :)

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

@Kestler,

It was my understading that you can apply the sheet to your 12th level LL character, as a one shot 'bending the rules'.

Spoiler:
That said, Mayim currently exists as a non-played block of GM credit in my head, though I've been reporting her as Taldor. I had a brief moment of conflict as I thought "I can apply this to her, play one scenario as LL, (to 'lock' her into existance) then switch to Taldor for free."

You're right, it is tempting.

Grand Lodge

More on the Chronicle:
It's crazy tempting.

If I could hack into Paizo's computers and edit the chronicle sheet, this is what I'd do.

"Before August 14, 2013, you may change from Lantern Lodge to a new faction without spending Prestige Points or losing any faction-specific Prestige Awards. When you complete this change to a new faction, choose one (Redacted). As the culmination of years of service to the Lantern Lodge and Amara Li’s guidance, you receive (Redacted).
If you are not a member of the Lantern Lodge faction, cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet.

*CHANGED TO*

If you have not earned at least 5 prestige for the Lantern Lodge faction which has been recorded on PFS Chronicle sheets, cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet.

As of August 14, 2013, the Lantern Lodge is no longer a legal faction. As a result, no character may receive this boon."


I realise this change would be unpopular for power reasons, but it's the best way I can think to stop people gaming the chronicle. I'm glad there's a time limit.

Grand Lodge

I know I saw Mark or Mike say GMs could apply the special LL boon to characters out of tier when they run it but I don't see any rules for that on the chronicle. Was this changed?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

KestlerGunner wrote:
Once word gets out, I predict that there will be a big wave of level 3 characters spending 9 prestige to get the Lantern Triumph boon. There is no other prestige reward that comes even remotely close to this one.

It's also a one-time boon that is only available until August 14th. Even if it does happen, I don't see a problem.

Grand Lodge

Kintrik wrote:
I know I saw Mark or Mike say GMs could apply the special LL boon to characters out of tier when they run it but I don't see any rules for that on the chronicle. Was this changed?

It looks that way right now :(

I'd love to find a link to Mark or Mike discussing this option - I had a trawl through Mike's post history but couldn't unearth anything.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

The boon for non-LL ain't too bad either! +5 or +6 to checks isn't bad at all.

The Kirin's Debt nets you at most 1375gp. Not too shabby for something you picked up in first steps. I assume you still need the fame for the full price.

Re: the big boon. I just wish I knew it a week ago, before I finalized my character's stats.

Well, now I know what I'm running on the 11th.

5/5

I have a question about the scaling of the wave attacks. Should there be a different threshold for tables of 4 vs. tables of 5 or 6?

I know you scale down the starting numbers per wave, but both sets being able to get down to the same level seems counter-intuitive on what's been going on this season in my mind.

Silver Crusade

I look forward to running this. I have a PC that has the boon of the Kirin! I am so excited.

Sovereign Court

Iron Helixx wrote:
Question: If a player has a Lantern Lodge PC that is Lvl 2 and plays this scenario with a lvl 4 Pre-Gen (let's say it's because their local PFS group is running it and it is their only chance to play it due to where they live [just for example]) - would they get the "special" boon for Lantern Lodge PCs?

Question was asked in the product discussion page, got no answer. Hoping it might gain one here.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Sior wrote:
Iron Helixx wrote:
Question: If a player has a Lantern Lodge PC that is Lvl 2 and plays this scenario with a lvl 4 Pre-Gen (let's say it's because their local PFS group is running it and it is their only chance to play it due to where they live [just for example]) - would they get the "special" boon for Lantern Lodge PCs?
Question was asked in the product discussion page, got no answer. Hoping it might gain one here.

A strict reading of the Guide to Organized Play states on page 8 that pregenerated characters are assumed to be members of the Grand Lodge faction, and that would suggest that the proposed course of action would not work.

I know that we have discussed allowing GMs to assign the Chronicle sheet to a character outside of the tier with the intention of allowing a higher level character to receive the celebratory finale boon. I also recently received a question about applying the GM credit to a very low level character (no chance of reaching level 3 before the cut-off date) and whether said character might earn the boon when the Chronicle sheet were actually applied. Exactly how these cases are to be handled are details that I'm working out.

In those discussions, I will include the matter of a pregenerated character.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Thanks, John.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for keeping us informed John.

I know of two Lantern Lodgers in Toronto who are way over-leveled for this scenario, and both are currently on our schedule to GM this one. Being able to apply this to their high level characters seems only fair.

As for people gaming the system to get +1 to a stat, it's really not a big deal in the long run. We're looking at a possible +1 to a modifier; compare this with some other Season 4 boons, and I'd say it's better that more have access to it than less.

Shadow Lodge

I'm actually running this game tonight. I know at least one player has a level 1 Lantern Lodge character. They were planning to play a pregen and apply the boon to their level one. Based on the podcast I assumed that would be okay. Please let me know what I should tell this player.

I really hope he can apply it to his actual Lantern Lodge character, he just started a kitsune and has been bummed that the faction is going away.

Grand Lodge

John Compton wrote:
Sior wrote:
Iron Helixx wrote:
Question: If a player has a Lantern Lodge PC that is Lvl 2 and plays this scenario with a lvl 4 Pre-Gen (let's say it's because their local PFS group is running it and it is their only chance to play it due to where they live [just for example]) - would they get the "special" boon for Lantern Lodge PCs?
Question was asked in the product discussion page, got no answer. Hoping it might gain one here.

A strict reading of the Guide to Organized Play states on page 8 that pregenerated characters are assumed to be members of the Grand Lodge faction, and that would suggest that the proposed course of action would not work.

I know that we have discussed allowing GMs to assign the Chronicle sheet to a character outside of the tier with the intention of allowing a higher level character to receive the celebratory finale boon. I also recently received a question about applying the GM credit to a very low level character (no chance of reaching level 3 before the cut-off date) and whether said character might earn the boon when the Chronicle sheet were actually applied. Exactly how these cases are to be handled are details that I'm working out.

In those discussions, I will include the matter of a pregenerated character.

This is what Mike Brock said initially, I am planning on going with this unless I hear otherwise at least 2 days before our event that is featuring this.

Oh and then about the pregen thing. Yes the pregen is GL, however when you apply it to the character their faction does not change. It stays whatever it is, otherwise playing a higher level pregen would be worthless unless you apply it to a level 1. The prestige would always go to Grand Lodge, and since you aren't a member of that faction it would be lost.


I think what John was saying is that when you play a pregen, you play as Grand Lodge, therefore no, you cannot do the Lantern Lodge faction mission as a pregen and apply it to another character. The prestige will go to whatever faction your character is, but the scenario you play in will give you the Grand Lodge faction mission. They can always delay playing it, or GM it later when their characters have leveled up. They have until Aug 14.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Hey guys,

I'll be out of town until tomorrow night, but I'll try and get some answers for you up then.

-- Dennis

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I may be missing something here, but I'm reading through Way of the Kirin and something isn't clear. I'd be grateful for any advice!

Spoiler:

Why would the PCs set up the catapult, barricades, traps and so on? The PCs are told they're going to be security for Amari Li's trip in Ramparrasad. They arrive on the island and aren't, so far as I can see, given any instructions other than to wait around and wait for tea. Once the ship starts burning, they have an hour to get ready, but it seems unlikely at that point that they'll want to wander down the island to set traps.

Is it only particularly paranoid and/or prudent PCs that will be setting traps on arrival at the house, before tea and cakes?

This one looks like a **lot** of fun, mind.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Are there pc's besides paranoid ones that are still alive? You should be scaring them more... :)

If they sit down for tea, have one of them open a fortune cookie that reads "Plan for the worst. All your surprises will be pleasant" and then explodes.

Dark Archive

The fortune cookie idea is actually kind of awesome. I might have a soothsayer in Ramparassad warn one of the PCs. What's something that sounds ominous and means nothing until after they've been attacked?

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
The fortune cookie idea is actually kind of awesome. I might have a soothsayer in Ramparassad warn one of the PCs. What's something that sounds ominous and means nothing until after they've been attacked?

The white owl hoots four times for nine.

(white being the color of death in china, owl hooting being a sign of death in china, four being the number of death because they sound the same in chinese. Nine is the number of the emporer (or in this case empress. All chinese folklore taken from wikipedia. Do not use if nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant... )

Dark Archive

A little too vague probably. Ideally, they realize what it means just as the ship is burning.

Grand Lodge 2/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Colorado—Northern Colorado aka treidenb

Can a character with the Debt of the Kirin from Intro II make use of it if you run Way of the Kirin as a GM or do you need to play that character?

Shadow Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Are there pc's besides paranoid ones that are still alive? You should be scaring them more... :)

If they sit down for tea, have one of them open a fortune cookie that reads "Plan for the worst. All your surprises will be pleasant" and then explodes.

But fortune cookies are American...

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

thistledown wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Are there pc's besides paranoid ones that are still alive? You should be scaring them more... :)

If they sit down for tea, have one of them open a fortune cookie that reads "Plan for the worst. All your surprises will be pleasant" and then explodes.

But fortune cookies are American...

Well the lantern lodge needs a signal even the andorans can understand! :)

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Are there pc's besides paranoid ones that are still alive? You should be scaring them more... :)

If they sit down for tea, have one of them open a fortune cookie that reads "Plan for the worst. All your surprises will be pleasant" and then explodes.

Shouldn't it read "I prepared explosive runes today."

(Aside, I just discovered an evil use of beguiling gift.)

Grand Lodge 5/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

14 people marked this as a favorite.

If someone GMs the scenario, they may apply the a chronicle to any character they have to receive the boom, even if out of tier, for this scenario and Rivalry's End. This is in effect until August 14, 2013.


Can I choose to redeem the boon after I run/play this? Before the deadline is only req I see. I wanna be a master and 2 modules makes the 40 pp unattainable if I'm 7.2 when I run Way.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

thoynan wrote:
Can I choose to redeem the boon after I run/play this? Before the deadline is only req I see. I wanna be a master and 2 modules makes the 40 pp unattainable if I'm 7.2 when I run Way.

The only requirement as that you change factions before August 14th (the same requirement as for Lantern Lodge characters who do not play this scenario). You can continue to play a Lantern Lodge character until that date as normal (doing Lantern Lodge faction missions, gaining vanities, etc.) Note that you don't get the benefit of the boon until you change factions.

Michael Brock wrote:
If someone GMs the scenario, they may apply the a chronicle to any character they have to receive the boom, even if out of tier, for this scenario and Rivalry's End. This is in effect until August 14, 2013.

I think this is Mike's way of saying you should apply it to an alchemist or blaster caster.

Lantern Lodge

Michael Brock wrote:
If someone GMs the scenario, they may apply the a chronicle to any character they have to receive the boom, even if out of tier, for this scenario and Rivalry's End. This is in effect until August 14, 2013.

So if it is applied to a higher level character do we just get the boon or do we also get xp and gold like you normally would for gming a game? I understand that you would only get the gold offered so its not a benefit because you could be getting twice as much gold for the xp slot.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

@TOZ - "Not sure how well the Defense Points will go over,"

This was meant to be much simpler than the system in Nesting Swallows. It's not meant to bog down play.

@DLandonCole - When I ran a scenario previously where the PCs were put on guard duty, the PCs in the group I was GMing took tons of precautions to protect the person they were guarding and it was all in vain. I wanted an avenue where players who prepared in advance would be rewarded. Maybe they won't see the parts to the catapult and think "oh hey we should build this", but the ones who do should be rewarded for forward thinking.

Also, as has been mentioned, they do have an hour from when they first discover the enemy to make preparations so even if they are not otherwise inclined, they can still scramble and implement some defenses.

Liberty's Edge

I played in a 4 player game of this yesterday, I am more of concern with the chronicle sheet.

3 of the other players spent the prestige points to switch to Lantern Lodge for this scenario for essentially the +1 ability point. After successfully completing the scenario (3-4) , the former Loyal Lantern Lodge members picked the Shadow Lodge as their next port of call ( in anticipation of the retirement scenario for the Shadow Lodge).

My question is: THere is nothing stopping this is there?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Matthew Pittard wrote:

My question is: THere is nothing stopping this is there?

Player honor.

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Matthew Pittard wrote:

I played in a 4 player game of this yesterday, I am more of concern with the chronicle sheet.

3 of the other players spent the prestige points to switch to Lantern Lodge for this scenario for essentially the +1 ability point. After successfully completing the scenario (3-4) , the former Loyal Lantern Lodge members picked the Shadow Lodge as their next port of call ( in anticipation of the retirement scenario for the Shadow Lodge).

My question is: THere is nothing stopping this is there?

It's a trap!

They won't get the boon from Rivalry's End and will have to pay PP to change factions to be legal. They just done screwed themselves over by trying to game the system.

Mark Moreland wrote:
The extra-special bonus awarded for playing Way of the Kirin with a Lantern Lodge PC will not stack with the bonus for playing a Shadow Lodge PC in Rivalry's End. If you want to make that change, you can do so, but you'll only get one free faction change at the end of the season, so you'd need to pay for either the switch to the Shadow Lodge or the switch from Shadow Lodge to another one.

post found here http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqiw?Changing-Factions-After-Lantern-Lodge#7

Grand Lodge

I doubt it could function as a trap. If these factionless agents do not have the prestige remaining to change factions, what happens to them? Do they revert to Grand Lodge? Do their side-swapping antics get them kicked from the Society? If they do remain factionless (as they cannot afford to choose a new faction) are they forced to play through scenarios with no faction missions where the best-case scenario is that they earn one prestige per scenario?

Grand Lodge 5/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
KestlerGunner wrote:
I doubt it could function as a trap. If these factionless agents do not have the prestige remaining to change factions, what happens to them? Do they revert to Grand Lodge? Do their side-swapping antics get them kicked from the Society? If they do remain factionless (as they cannot afford to choose a new faction) are they forced to play through scenarios with no faction missions where the best-case scenario is that they earn one prestige per scenario?

That's a good question. I'm inclined to say, if you don't have enough PP to switch to a new faction due to trying to game the system, you lose your character as it is removed from play. Let me think on it.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Matthew Pittard wrote:

I played in a 4 player game of this yesterday, I am more of concern with the chronicle sheet.

3 of the other players spent the prestige points to switch to Lantern Lodge for this scenario for essentially the +1 ability point. After successfully completing the scenario (3-4) , the former Loyal Lantern Lodge members picked the Shadow Lodge as their next port of call ( in anticipation of the retirement scenario for the Shadow Lodge).

My question is: THere is nothing stopping this is there?

There is something. It's coming. Lets wait until next month. I don't want to spoil the surprise.

Liberty's Edge

I love surprises. The funny thing was that my character IS.. nearly typed WAS Shadow Lodge for Way of the Kirin.

Spoiler:
Imagine my Surprise when they wanted me to Diplomacy with someone.. as a Barbarian.

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

@Dennis Baker - OK, that sets my mind at ease. I'm looking forward to running this one! Thanks for the reply :)

Shadow Lodge

I think such antics should cost Fame.

Lantern Lodge

@ Michael Brock

Do we get the XP and gold for crediting this to a higher lvl character?

We are starting the Retirement arc soon and my cleric needs 2 more XP. Can i credit this to him and play one more to hit 12 or would i need to play 2 more games before retirement? Im ok with getting less gold if we can.

5/5

Alecak wrote:

@ Michael Brock

Do we get the XP and gold for crediting this to a higher lvl character?

We are starting the Retirement arc soon and my cleric needs 2 more XP. Can i credit this to him and play one more to hit 12 or would i need to play 2 more games before retirement? Im ok with getting less gold if we can.

You gain xp, prestige and gold as normal for GM credit. The only thing different about GM credit for #4-21 Way of the Kirin is that you can apply it to characters over the level cap of 3-7. If you apply the GM credit to a level 11 character they would get the standard rewards from tier 6-7.


Dennis, I can't tell you how happy I am to be running this soon. The (archetyped fighters) are awesome, especially with their (thing that goes away in later acts). Combined with the last guy...wow! I really enjoy the scenario.

That said:

for Dennis:
Mikogu Shimazi appears to be proficient with the katana (presumably via "skill at arms."), is this on purpose, or an accidental "bend" in the rules?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

@Abyssian - Much like the bastard sword, you can use the katana 2 handed as a martial weapon and Exotic Weapon Proficiency is only required to use it one handed. Shimazi gets MWP with the oracle revelation "skill at arms".

Glad you are excited about this one, it was fun to write. Not as much role playing as I would have liked, but sometimes it's not in the cards.

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