What Belongs in an Eastern Setting?


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HoE III doesn't actually have a lot of it. We are going to be adding a lot more of that into our eastern campaign setting.


I'd like to see Little Red's take on some achievement feats for an Eastern setting.


When it comes to an Eastern Setting, there are usually three things that come to mind as required content/inspirations.

Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a given - tabletop-ifying it, I'd actually want to go more in the Dynasty Warriors direction over the strategy games that Koei has done.

If Hindu influences are allowed, adn from what you've said they will be included, drawing from the Rig Veda certainly will do you a world of good for ideas.

Someone attributed the Crystal flavor of psionics to the 70s - weren't they also a prime time for the 'chop-socky'/wuxia genre in general as well? And given the already-mentioned L5R influence, I certainly can see why there's a justification for supernatural mental powers honed, aimed, and refined through the use of jade.


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So we have been working on this along side Heroes of the East III (and our possible 4th book in the line).

From our playtesting result and sheer "fun" factor we have decided to do something very "wuxia" inspired with lots of martial arts and whatnot. We will be setting it in a quing dynasty-esque Chinese setting (very "Romance of the Three Kingdoms") with some Japanese influences.

Everything is martial arts (even spellcasting) and the world is unexplored. Clans and styles abound in the 4th age of a high fantasy world that is just entering the iron age (so low technology).

We are creating mischievous monkeyfolk, brutish ogres, beautiful dragon-blooded "celestials", dutiful shapeshifting shishi, and of course all the bad dubbing you can handle.

We had a FANTASTIC game last weekend playtesting this setting. Lots of forbidden techniques and masters of obscure schools of martial arts. Hell, someone even paralyzed a TRex with a stunning fist and a yamabushi oneshoted a succubus (3 CR's lower than him) due to a lucky critical hit with a naginata!


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Onimusha. Seriously. If you don't have tortured warriors bearing soul-drinking eldritch gauntlets in your Eastern setting WHAT ARE YOU *DOING* WITH YOUR LIVES?!?!

Put it in HOE IV. NOT as a PRC! 'Nuff said*.

*As the author of the Gauntlet Witch (KQ#23) I was bemused to find the KnowDirection podcast crew make reference to Witchblade - the GW was intentionally intended NOT to be a fan-remake of either the original comic, TV series or later (and retina-scarring) anime/manga. I also created a baker's dozen racial variants - most were posted on a KQ blog series, a few here on Paizo - somewhere someone responded with a comment that you could make an onimusha with this concept. Onimusha? "What is this Onimusha?" thought OSW.
Yes folks, I am old - I had missed an entire gaming trope - in this case video gaming. Wikipedia brought me up to speed. AHA! Here was the ultimate soul-gauntlet - most likely where all the witchblades and other gauntlet wearing heroes drew inspiration from.

Only, marrying a martial gauntlet concept, no matter how mystical to a weak BABis a no fun exercise. Please make an Onimusha this ol' shieldwolf can be proud of. Sniff...


Actually, we have been playing around with a Heroes of the East IV if this one sells well (we suspect it will). It's going to be focused on prestige classes for ninjas, samurai (they get no PrC love), and our new base classes from the HoE line (Taoist, Yamabushi & Shinshoku).

Well we actually had a base class called the darkborn that's somewhat along the same lines. It's not inherently connected to an eastern setting so we wouldn't do it for a HoE line but I could defiantly see an Onimusha-esque character (base or otherwise) existing in a setting. It might work well as a archetype (Fighter? Rogue? I could see a fun way to do a barbarian version).


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RE: Onimusha - Personally I can see a Magus archetype a la the Bladebound Magus, an Antipaladin or an Inquisitor (check the Inquisitor's Sin Eater archetype (is it in UM?UC?) and ramp it up thematically for a soul-drinking gauntlet) - only because those three are already mystical and spellcastery... "Spiritbound Warrior"/"Demonbond Warrior"...

A Samurai Onimusha archetype would be a great idea, as would a Fighter or Ranger, and yes, think of the thematic fun you could have with a raging demonbound gauntlet Barbarian.....

It's the rampant soul-drnking to enervate foes and energise the Onimusha as well as the mystic/eldritch empowering and blasting generally that calls to me...


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Another vote for some more Indian stuff. There is very little available for Pathfinder/D&D compared to the volume of Far Eastern material.

Will look out for the new book ;)

Cheers

Rich


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Things I'd like to see:

Discussions of real-world religions when it comes to magic (perhaps in out-of-universe sidebars). I got really confused really fast when I was trying to figure out the in-universe (non-rules) difference between a shugenja and a miko in Rokugan. Which one used shikigami, because Wikipedia seems to think this is wrong? Who is supposed to use them? Did people call themselves shugenja in real life, or is that invented for the game?

FEATS. A Japanese fighting style coded as a feat or as a series of feats is a great idea. You don't need a class for drawing your sword quickly. Said feats aren't used by other cultures simply because they're not taught. These feats wouldn't be superior or inferior to other feats.

Armor and equipment equivalencies. Kama don't need their own stats; they're variant sickles. Lamellar armor doesn't need its own stats; it's variant chainmail or scale mail. Daikyu don't need their own stats; they're bows.

Things I'd not like to see:

Stereotyping. It's my belief that Japanese people have the most stereotypes associated with them. Some are bad, some are good, most are inaccurate and the rest exaggerated, although that's pretty common with most ethnic stereotypes. I'm pretty sure they have the longest list, though, as Chinese people get a really long list, and then people toss on nonsense about suicide, honor, samurai, katana and ninja... while including all the (already inaccurate and/or exaggerated) Chinese stereotypes.

My old group literally had to throw a player out of the group over that. (The PC wanted to commit suicide because he lost his ancestral weapon.)

Avoiding stereotyping is hard, and even if you avoid it, readers might not.

Some years back I read a series of books by Stephen Turnbull. The books were just about the history of warfare and weren't intended to teach readers about Japanese culture. Therefore the author didn't say things like "did you know samurai didn't commit suicide very often?" (People who believe the stereotypes will ignore this, especially if you only mention it once.) Instead, he simply described the battles like a historian would. You'd notice quickly that whenever one side lost a battle, they ... ran away. None of this nonsense about fighting to the bitter end, or committing suicide in droves. In fact, only samurai leaders seemed to commit suicide, not after every battle, and only if they got beat down hard, much like Roman commanders used to do sometimes. There was precisely one example of a mass suicide as a result of a battle, and it was pointed out as an extremely shocking event because that kind of thing was either very rare or had never happened before.

Don't include new classes unless you have to. You do not need a ninja class (I know, it's too late) or a samurai class (ditto). There's nothing wrong with including a sample ninja done using the rogue class, or a sample samurai using the fighter class (perhaps with new feats, where valid).

WotC did two samurai classes. The one in Complete Warrior was a failure due to a lack of research and lots of stereotyping. (It was also weak, but that's secondary.) The one in Complete Samurai not only avoided a lot of those issues, but the creation of clans with different fighting styles meant there were lots of options. Even if you've got one of those players who insists that samurai always dual-wielded, they can take the Dragon Style feats and you don't have to damage the class for everyone else. (Incidentally, despite OA having a samurai class, there were NPCs shown in the books who used the fighter class, and they did not appear to be outclassed or acting like foreigners to the setting.)

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
Oh that is awesome. I first picked the Judge Dee books up at the Harvard book store back in 92.

Another Judge Dee fan. I've read every translated book (into English) available in my library system (they ship to the home library, which is cool).


Hey guys!
Thanks a lot for the feedback. We are going to include a few Japanese, Indian, and Korean references to the setting. I think we are going more towards the wuxia/Three Kingdoms angle.


Distant Scholar wrote:
LazarX wrote:


Psionics isn't eastern, it's '70's New Age.
Oh, I disagree so very, very much.

Psionics is actually a bhuddist concept, some of the earlier accounts come from bhuddist temples in Nepal.

the crystal stuff is 70's new age

but crystals can easily be substituted by such things as incenses to improve focus, living spirit metals with which to shape constructs into reality, and a variety of similar eastern concepts.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
gamer-printer wrote:

I have an American friend on a work-training program visiting Japan last year, that has a military tattoo on his left upper arm and had tried to enter a public bath house. Once his shirt was removed and the tattoo exposed, the attendants politely asked him to leave.

In the right company at the right location (semi-private) one can have a discussion/view tattoos for a photography session, but in the general public - this would not happen.

They are indeed that despised.

Maybe you should rethink about what happened.. Your friend was an American... with most likely an American MILITARY Tattoo. Perhaps it was the person wearing it and the subject matter that was more the problem than the medium. Not every Japanese is quite peachy keen on being the receiving end of what we did in the Pacific theatre.... especially if they had relatives that went through the Tokyo Firestorm... which killed more people than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki, after we'd practised the technique on Dresden.


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You may want to include oracle bones as a means of divination or some other sort of magic.
There are a few books over at Project Gutenberg about myths and legends in China as well as Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Great material in there for a long running campaign.
The Tales of the Strange has a cool "X-Files" feel to it if you can find a copy. There are several of the tales included in the Norton Anthology of Traditional Chinese Literature. You can usually find that for cheap at the end of a semester.

Some movies that might help inspire are:
From Taiwan: Heirloom (2005) by Leste Chen. It takes a bit of understanding of the culture to get the full horror out of it.

Spoiler:
Child Ghosts and abuse of filial piety

From Korea: A Tale of Two Sisters (2003) by Kim Jee-Woon. Pretty awesome.
From China: Hero (2002) by Yimou Zhang. It's set before the Three Kingdoms period, but it's a great movie to get your players familiar with the setting.


Very good list Mnicholsm!

One of my fav. I was actually re-watching last night was John Woo's Red Cliff (My girlfriend hadn't seen it).


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LazarX wrote:
Maybe you should rethink about what happened.. Your friend was an American... with most likely an American MILITARY Tattoo. Perhaps it was the person wearing it and the subject matter that was more the problem than the medium. Not every Japanese is quite peachy keen on being the receiving end of what we did in the Pacific theatre.... especially if they had relatives that went through the Tokyo Firestorm... which killed more people than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki, after we'd practised the technique on Dresden.

I'm half Japanese, am an amateur Japanese historian and am familiar with what my relatives in Japan think as well. My understanding of the Japanese tabboo of wearing tattoos is not limited to this particular individual and circumstance. It was just the most recent encounter among someone I know directly. It is a cultural fact, however.

I actually had a great uncle who served in the Japanese military during WW2 (although a physician in the south Pacific and was killed). My mother was a child in Japan during the war - she and her family endured great suffering at the time. I have been to Japan multiple times and keep in regular contact with 2 cousins there and their families. So I am sympathetic to human losses suffered during the war.

I am in fact the primary developer and Japan expert for the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) as an imprint under Rite Publishing. Paizo Publishing, in fact hired me to write some the gazetteer and designed the Map of Kasai, for the Jade Regent AP, and am credited as a contributing author for The Empty Throne, due to my expertise in Japanese culture, history, architecture, among other areas. I am the author/designer for the Kaidan Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House - another very authentic Japanese cultural product.

I'm sure you weren't aware of all that. Just know that I'm speaking from a position of authority on this.

Kaidan, the setting I develop defies many of the stereotypical notions in previous oriental settings. I would go as far as saying it is the most authentic fantasy feudal Japanese setting ever created. It's not Wuxia, however, rather based on Edo Period politics, folklore and ghost story tradition. Kaidan is my IP and concept creation.


Kimera757 wrote:

Stereotyping. It's my belief that Japanese people have the most stereotypes associated with them. Some are bad, some are good, most are inaccurate and the rest exaggerated, although that's pretty common with most ethnic stereotypes. I'm pretty sure they have the longest list, though, as Chinese people get a really long list, and then people toss on nonsense about suicide, honor, samurai, katana and ninja... while including all the (already inaccurate and/or exaggerated) Chinese stereotypes.

My old group literally had to throw a player out of the group over that. (The PC wanted to commit suicide because he lost his ancestral weapon.)

Avoiding stereotyping is hard, and even if you avoid it, readers might not.

Some years back I read a series of books by Stephen Turnbull. The books were just about the history of warfare and weren't intended to teach readers about Japanese culture. Therefore the author didn't say things like "did you know samurai didn't commit suicide very often?" (People who believe the...

Check out the Rite Publishing Way of the Samurai supplement with a very authentic take on samurai social caste culture. Seppuku is discussed, however - as mentioned in your past situation, a loss of an ancestral blade in Kaidan means a loss of honor, that needs to be regained, not a reason to commit suicide - though PC death has a different meaning altogether.

Just saying there already exists a very authentic take on feudal Japanese culture and tropes as a Pathfinder Compatible product, unlike almost every previous oriental RPG setting. Sengoku RPG was well done at least culturally speaking - if a kind of dry game.

Sorry for the threadjack - just wanted to clear up that not every game developer does Japan wrong. I don't think Kaidan is competition to what Little Red Goblin Games is doing, though - apples and oranges by the sound of it.


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Kimera757 wrote:
Did people call themselves shugenja in real life, or is that invented for the game?

Shugenja means "follower of the path of Shugendo" with Shugendo being a religion. Anyone taking a mountain pilgrimage and subjecting themselves to terrifying purification rituals are said to follow the path of Shugendo, applying to both the laity and it's clergy. Purification rituals involved 'firewalking' and 'hanging yourself up-side-down over the edge of a cliff facing certain death'. Yamabushi is the term for a priest of Shugendo. So indeed 'shugenja' is a real word, just that OA, L5R and PF use it out of context to it's actual meaning.

Dark Archive

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Kung Fu Panda's.... what? Someone had to say it.


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I actually enjoyed Kaidan, though I must admit we hadn't really read it until I spoke with Rite on Facebook. It's solid work. The way I look at it is to say that while it great work, it's very different from what we are looking to achieve. With our Necropunk setting we really delved into politics and whatnot (we retooled the entire skill system to include social combat). With this one we are focusing much more on theme & combat I think.

The best & shortest way to describe our setting is going to be, "The Polar Opposite of Rokugan".

Actually we included a full Yamabushi base class in Heroes of the East III (Very "mountain hermit meets samurai"). Fills a similar role to a paladin or ranger.

@Dark Mistress
That's source material right there ;-)


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Oh, yes, definitely, both our intended directions for an oriental setting are indeed viable. You seem to be going the way of Wuxia and martial arts, which is a very Chinese approach with a huge market ready to play in such, thus a good tact to pursue. Kaidan on the other hand is dark and gritty, using authentic tropes and really sticking to historical and folklore aspects to Japan only. Kaidan really minimizes influences from China, Korea or other Asian cultures, being purely Japanese. It's why I stated our goals are 'apples and oranges' - which is a good thing.

Interesting mention to your comparison of a yamabushi to fill the role of paladin and ranger. The yamabushi of Kaidan is a paladin archetype with some ranger like abilities. We also have a Yojimbo (ranger archetype).


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We actually shot an email over to Rite on Facebook at one point when we saw the Yamabushi had been in their book to make sure we were not stepping on toes.

Paladins & Rangers are a very western concept and we really wanted to do something.

To be honest Yamabushi started out it's life as a samurai alternate but quickly became it's own thing and grew so explosively that we made it into a base class. You'll still be able to see the vestigial elements (it retains resolve, has some weapon profs. that are similar) but it has become it's own beast. It's actually one of our favorite classes from our playtests (other being shinshoku which is somewhat the spiritual successor to the old Sha' ir).

We had one of our players say it was a, "mix between a ranger, monk, paladin, druid, samurai, and it's own thing".


LazarX wrote:
They can't be that despised. My Rutgers photography professor, Sandi Felman, got the use of the Polaroid 20x24 camera to do her book "The Japanese Tattoo".

Since you don't seem to believe me, believe this, here's a link to a photographer's article about "Horimyo", one of the most famous current-day 'tebori' tattoo artists in Japan - especially read the first few paragraphs in this article. While the public image of tattoo art in Japan is improving, it has far to go before it's accepted like it is in the west.


Very interesting article.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
gamer-printer wrote:


I'm half Japanese, am an amateur Japanese historian and am familiar with what my relatives in Japan think as well. My understanding of the Japanese tabboo of wearing tattoos is not limited to this particular individual and circumstance. It was just the most recent encounter among someone I know directly. It is a cultural fact, however.

I actually had a great uncle who served in the Japanese military during WW2 (although a physician in the south Pacific and was killed). My mother was a child in Japan during the war - she and her family endured great suffering at the time. I have been to Japan multiple times and keep in regular contact with 2 cousins there and their families. So I am sympathetic to human losses suffered during the war.

I am in fact the primary developer and Japan expert for the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) as an imprint under Rite Publishing. Paizo Publishing, in fact hired me to write some the gazetteer and designed the Map of Kasai, for the Jade Regent AP, and am credited as a contributing author for The Empty Throne, due to my expertise in Japanese culture, history, architecture, among other areas. I am the author/designer for the Kaidan Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House - another very authentic Japanese cultural product.

I'm sure you weren't aware...

My perspective is a bit different. I was a student of Sandi Fellman who was my photo teacher at the Mason Gross School of the Arts at Rutgers University during my student years almost 30 years ago. She is one of the few people who actually got to use the unique Polaroid 20x24 camera, and she put out an award winning book "The Japanese Tatto. Here is a link to some of the photos from that book She spoke at length about the making of that book and the subjects she photographed in Tokyo. There was no mention of a social stigma attached to these people, in fact she spoke of them with the same reverence ususally attached to those who practise the art of sumo.

This of course, was done almost thirty years ago. Things may have changed since then.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Did some additional lookup and finally ran into this wikipedia article on [Irezumi and I'm going to have to plead faulty recall on some thirty year old memories. Fellman's photos for Irezumi were exhibited at the Natural Museum of American History and I'd never guessed that the Polariod camera was capable of the work I'd seen. I recomend that those interested in this bit of history check the linked article as a starting point.


As interesting as this is we seem to have drifted a little off topic. (And but assured that it IS quite interesting)


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So we put together a preview doc for this wuxia/Chinese setting since you guys gave us SO much feedback. The full doc is about 50+ pages at the moment and we are about to start playtesting. This project is on the backburner a bit (due to Necropunk’s launch and the KS backer rewards). We’d love any feedback you guys have! I opened it up to adding comments!

Dragon Tiger Ox

We are also counting over 70 feats, including: at LEAST 4 new styles, racial feats, story feats, etc.
We also have a LOT of alternate rules, a few classes (including Heroes of the East support), a big list of clans, religion, etc.

Happy gaming!
~Red


I really like what you did with unarmed striking, the change makes it feel a lot more flavorful, an important factor in a setting where everyone has can do them. Making the aasimar dragon descended was also quite a good call for the setting, and I definitely wanna play a Gwaiwu.


Thanks!
We didn't want to do something tired or expected like "panda people" or
"terracotta soldier people". Felt a bit cheap. So we drew from oni lore and stock archetypes.

Other sections:

  • Suggested enemies
  • Religion
  • Eras
  • Languages
  • Styles/School
  • Ki Modifier
  • Ki Level
  • New Uses for Skills: Knowledge (local)
  • Sorcerer Bloodlines (Draconic Variant: Imperial Dragons) (Ki Bloodline)
  • Sifu Prestige Class


  • Ki modifier/level, and eras?


    Eras is a short section on the history of the setting. More just a wrap up for the religion section (historic/folk figures are deified).

    The other two are new mechanics we define. They are kind of "no duh" once you read them.

    Ki Modifier: The modifier your class uses for their ki pool.
    Ki Level: This is the number of levels a character has in classes that grant him a ki pool.

    We use these in conjunction with a lot of new feats (like sensing relative powers via sensing someone's ki level).
    It also allows us to say in feats/abilities something like "DC 10 + 1/2 ki level + ki modifier". This way it applies to monks, ninja, tao (HoE), etc.

    Sovereign Court Contributor

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    Qing is misspelled as Quing... I am interested, however...


    Good catch!
    I think my brain was editing it with English rules in mind (Qu).

    Adjusted.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    If I could find something with good solid rules for converting the default spells/critters from the default four elements (earth, wind, fire and water) to the five elements (wind, fire, water, wood, metal or wind, fire, water, wood, spirit) that are the 'essential elements' in many eastern mythologies I'd buy the book in a heart beat.

    EDIT : Gah, can't type right tonight. Wood, Metal, Fire, Earth, Water vs Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Emptyness


    mdt wrote:

    If I could find something with good solid rules for converting the default spells/critters from the default four elements (earth, wind, fire and water) to the five elements (wind, fire, water, wood, metal or wind, fire, water, wood, spirit) that are the 'essential elements' in many eastern mythologies I'd buy the book in a heart beat.

    EDIT : Gah, can't type right tonight. Wood, Metal, Fire, Earth, Water vs Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Emptyness

    We touch on that a LITTLE. We talk about how traditional dragon types are not very applicable in DTO and how Imperial dragons are much more prominent.

    I can talk to the other devs on this and see what they want to do. I can't promise anything will come of it.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    gamer-printer wrote:
    Askanipsion wrote:
    Not at all - I disagree - Ki Powers are just another name for mental powers - only thing that might be "70s" are the crystal aspects which can easily be replaced
    Ki (at least by Japanese standards) is inside your gut, not your head. Ki is not mental powers, it's an energy field within the bodies of things. Not just living things either. Every rock, tree, mountain, even manufactured objects have Ki inside. Ki energy can be manipulated, granting various "powers".

    However the flavor of oriental fantasy ki mastery is mainly internal, internal calm, enlightenment, and perception, balance, and the reinforcement of physical ability. Using your fists to shatter stone IS appropriately Oriental. But much of what is labeled D20 Psionics, especially the psion powers are outside of that sphere.


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    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
    mdt wrote:

    If I could find something with good solid rules for converting the default spells/critters from the default four elements (earth, wind, fire and water) to the five elements (wind, fire, water, wood, metal or wind, fire, water, wood, spirit) that are the 'essential elements' in many eastern mythologies I'd buy the book in a heart beat.

    EDIT : Gah, can't type right tonight. Wood, Metal, Fire, Earth, Water vs Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Emptyness

    We touch on that a LITTLE. We talk about how traditional dragon types are not very applicable in DTO and how Imperial dragons are much more prominent.

    I can talk to the other devs on this and see what they want to do. I can't promise anything will come of it.

    No problem. I just put it out. Hopefully eventually someone will do it as a niche PDF or something. :) One of those 10 or 12 page things they charge 5 bucks for. :)


    It's a possibility.


    my issue with elemental systems, is the urge to tie everything to a given element and having to make a new element to accomodate things

    if you use the Japanese elements of

    Earth
    Water
    Fire
    Air
    Void

    you can treat it as it's western counterpart for the most part remembering that

    Void or Emptyness, is about Neutrality, it is more of a state in between elemental affinities rather than a Seperate affinity

    Void covers everything that doesn't fall into the classic 4.

    if you treat Void as a state of Elemental Neutrality. it makes it easier to tie things to elements without much issue, because you have neutrality listed as a viable option

    the issue with making everything an elemental affinity, is that you will end up eventually going the JRPG route and introducing new elements to accomodate new creatures

    i'd be fine with light and dark as elements because they are so prominent, just don't try to tie light to angels and life, and dark to demons and death, and i will be fine. i'd like the option of an illusion themed darkness user who doesn't have ties to demons and death, and the option of an evil aligned light user who isn't a demon hating healbot.


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    I just blew my wad, this is what I was looking to do with my other campaign, but the pkayers are all newbies and don't really have a good grasp on rules. I really like the unarmed strike options, it reminds me of the Quintessential Fighter unarmed options which were good, I'm going to use the off-balance condition. I can't wait till this comes out.
    Any chance there is support for the KotR Wrestler such as new techniques?


    It's a source book we've always wanted to design.
    We have techniques, though they are mostly dedicated to the martialist rather than the wrestler.

    We are debating either doing a small Kickstarter in a month or two on it (more for a bigger art budget & get early adopters easy access) or editing it up and pushing it out around the beginning of winter. If we did a kickstarter it would be a 30 day one and would only be like 1-2k. We had a lot of success with the Necropunk one (and delivered ahead of schedule).

    Either that or I want to do a "pay what you want" thing with this.
    Thoughts?

    PS: Reposting this for those who missed it: Dragon Tiger Ox Preview

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    From what I've seen in this thread, there has been little to no mention of Vietnam, let alone some of the lesser-known-by-western-cultures ethnic groups. As an example, the Khmer people have a traditional boat race, where each hamlet's sorcerers and monks bless the boat and the individuals, and everyone watching prays for peace, strength, and protection for their team - wishes sent to the genies.

    Basically, my suggestion would be some sort of sorcerous monk with genie and boat themes, along with possible mechanics inspired by strong ties to her hometown (reflecting the symbol for each hamlet and the unity of said hamlet).

    Also, a rower companion/archetype/class/SOMETHING (inspired by said tradition, of course), because I have a friend who is a rower, and it's an incredible sport, requiring amazing endurance and teamwork. And seeing as my mother was a... I suppose you could call it a "rower's cheerleader", at one point in time, I've learned that "cheerleading" for rowers actually takes a lot of skill, recognition of the timing of both yourself and your team, realization of just how much effort your team is putting in, and so on and so forth. Of course, both are/were western forms, and while it could be incredibly different for the Khmer, I'm not too sure. Besides, the "cheerleader" role could very easily be filled as an archetype of the sorcerous genie boat monk, even as a PrC.

    Oh, and a link to an article on the tradition: http://vietnam.vnanet.vn/vnp/en-US/13/23/23/45805/default.aspx


    Lindley Court wrote:

    From what I've seen in this thread, there has been little to no mention of Vietnam, let alone some of the lesser-known-by-western-cultures ethnic groups. As an example, the Khmer people have a traditional boat race, where each hamlet's sorcerers and monks bless the boat and the individuals, and everyone watching prays for peace, strength, and protection for their team - wishes sent to the genies.

    Basically, my suggestion would be some sort of sorcerous monk with genie and boat themes, along with possible mechanics inspired by strong ties to her hometown (reflecting the symbol for each hamlet and the unity of said hamlet).

    Also, a rower companion/archetype/class/SOMETHING (inspired by said tradition, of course), because I have a friend who is a rower, and it's an incredible sport, requiring amazing endurance and teamwork. And seeing as my mother was a... I suppose you could call it a "rower's cheerleader", at one point in time, I've learned that "cheerleading" for rowers actually takes a lot of skill, recognition of the timing of both yourself and your team, realization of just how much effort your team is putting in, and so on and so forth. Of course, both are/were western forms, and while it could be incredibly different for the Khmer, I'm not too sure. Besides, the "cheerleader" role could very easily be filled as an archetype of the sorcerous genie boat monk, even as a PrC.

    Oh, and a link to an article on the tradition: http://vietnam.vnanet.vn/vnp/en-US/13/23/23/45805/default.aspx

    This is primary wuxia/fantasy ancient China source book, but we have included elements of Korean, Japanese, Mongolian, and even a little Thai elements. To be honest, we don't have the background in Vietnamese culture/myth to really be able to draw deeply enough to create something we'd be proud of. Unfortunately, we can't write for every culture (believe us when we say that we've wanted to do a Russian or African book!).

    Our focus was primarily around the central and northern eastern and central areas of China (and surrounding cultures) during the Qing & Han dynasty. We touch on the southern areas of China, but mostly drew from sources relating to the north.

    It seems like the rowers are pretty cool. I don't know where they could fit in, but it seems like something you know a great deal more about then we do. I don't know where they would have a role on the battlefield, but you should write something up!
    We wrote a guide for classes that could help you determine what it should be! :-)

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I... would assume you mean the Qin dynasty, rather than the Qing, given the difference of approximately 1400 years between the end of the Han and the start of the Qing, while the Qin occurred immediately before the Han.

    And thank you for the response, I understand fully now (or at least, I hope I do). I'll look over that guide again, and attempt to make a rower. Thanks again~ uvu


    We actually cover eras starting pre Han (end of Waring states) to the start of the Quing dynasty (1640s). I think I phrased that sentence weird. It's skewed much more toward Han and Three Kingdoms period however.

    We have a section that covers the 4 eras of humanity in the empire up until this point. We has set tech a bit back, but culturally there are a lot of elements there.

    RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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    In the Human section of the preview document, you probably don't want to use the phrase, "oriental features," when describing a character's appearance. People and their features are "Asian," not "oriental."


    Thanks. We will adjust that.


    Lumiere Dawnbringer wrote:

    my issue with elemental systems, is the urge to tie everything to a given element and having to make a new element to accomodate things

    if you use the Japanese elements of

    Earth
    Water
    Fire
    Air
    Void

    you can treat it as it's western counterpart for the most part remembering that

    Void or Emptyness, is about Neutrality, it is more of a state in between elemental affinities rather than a Seperate affinity

    Void covers everything that doesn't fall into the classic 4.

    if you treat Void as a state of Elemental Neutrality. it makes it easier to tie things to elements without much issue, because you have neutrality listed as a viable option

    the issue with making everything an elemental affinity, is that you will end up eventually going the JRPG route and introducing new elements to accomodate new creatures

    i'd be fine with light and dark as elements because they are so prominent, just don't try to tie light to angels and life, and dark to demons and death, and i will be fine. i'd like the option of an illusion themed darkness user who doesn't have ties to demons and death, and the option of an evil aligned light user who isn't a demon hating healbot.

    maybe an elementalist archetype to start?


    We did that already.


    right which is why I suggested an archetype to make it fit the setting a bit more. Maybe a hit to casting for a scaling elemental damage bonus to unarmed strikes or something. Also you guys would probably at least need void, if not also light and dark...pretty please with a cherry on top ;)

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