Kingmaker Group Composition


Advice


Hey all, just looking for some quick community insight on the fourth and final member of our group for an upcoming Kingmaker campaign arc we're running. So far, our group consists of:

- A Paladin who plans to tank and focus (as well as a Pally can) on group healing via Channel Energy

- A Ranger who will attempt to serve as the group's scout/skill monkey/glass cannon.

- An Inquisitor who will serve as party face and supplement the group's healing and damage dealing capacities, albeit less effectively.

And that leaves me. I am really open to any suggestion on what class best fills the remaining gaps in our group. Obviously, there's a glaring need for Arcane Casting. I was considering playing either a Vivisectionist Alchemist, mainly because I think they're cool, or a Magus to give our Paladin a flanking buddy and add that 3/4 Arcane caster power. Now I'm starting to think that maybe a Wizard is the best bet...but I've always thought they were so boring to play.

At any rate, I'm really interested in hearing what you all have to say! Tell me how dumb my ideas are and that a wizard is the obvious choice.


Witch would be a pretty good choice in this situation. She would cover much of the missing arcane ability as well as supplement the non-healing aspects of divine casting that are missing.

Cleric would be great as well. You don't need to focus on healing at all and instead use your spells and abilities for buffing and what not.

Wizard is a solid choice.

Oracle and Sorcerer would both be fine.

I really think you will miss having a heavy spellcaster once you are onto the third adventure or so.

Sean Mahoney


King maker is all about conquering your environment so to speak, a ranger does this quite well, but I would recommend a druid, their potency is second only to a wizard for casting in my opinion, and wild shape and a companion can help your paladin tank. Paladins do make great tanks because of their ability to self heal with lay on hands as swift action.


+1 Druid. There is a lot of outside exploration. A good scenario to make use of a druid's strengths. Look at the Druid's Guide-- it is excellent. Difficult choice between having animal companion or being an even better spellcaster. Either will work well.

Also, if allowed; Sorcerer with (Wildblooded) Sylvan Bloodline. They get access to a lot of druidic abilities, including animal companion, and access to the full arcane spell list. (Not that many spells known, but can use any wands, etc, you come across.)


Well it seems you have melee, healing, party face (although each one will probably want some ability to talk) and skills.

Depending on what the ranger focuses on a good ranged attacker could be of use, but a full caster could definitely come in handy.

If the ranger is not ranged attack here's some suggestions -

- Zen Archer Monk. Great ranged attacker.

- Wizard (Elementalist, Foresight Divination or Teleport Conjuration all would work well.) Full caster is awesome. I personally play a wood wizard and have been enjoying it. However if they bore you for some reason, you could just go sorcerer and make good choices.

- Master Summoner (If the DM allows it.) The master summoner has lots of versatility and will be great when you need more bodies on the field. I have this as my backup character and would have had many uses for them in the games situations thus far.

- Caster / Normal Druid. Very solid, especially as a great deal of your adventures will be in nature settings.

Alchemist Bomber. Another good ranged choice, but a bit more limited than the archer at beginner leves.


Witch is interesting...hadn't considered that at all. I'm looking at the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype and am really intrigued. That could be a cool character concept if I do it right.

Hadn't considered Druid either. Played one once in a low level campaign that fizzled out and didn't reallly care for the class. I know that in 3.5 (D&D) the Druid was ridiculously OP, but I felt that Paizo really tried to throttle the class back...and sort of neutered it a bit. I'll check out the Druid guide and see what I can see.

THanks for the advice so far everyone, please keep it coming!

Shadow Lodge

Party Picker says: Great melee, a little low on ranged, blasting, and debuffing. No trapfinding, but pretty well rounded besides that. You've got strong tanking and melee. Alchemist fits the bill pretty well, as would an urban barbarian or zen archer if you don't want to be a caster.


I'm currently playing Kingmaker, nearly done with the 4th book. I think your group of Paladin, Ranger, Inquisitor, ________ is a great start. The majority of the campaign takes place outdoors, so it's a great adventure to try out mounts and animal companions.

If I were in your position, I would make a half-elven sorcerer, sylvan bloodline, with the feat Boon Companion. That would give me full arcane casting abilities, flexibility through the spell Paragon Surge, and a powerful animal companion to satisfy my urge to participate in melee.


Dud Muffin wrote:

Hey all, just looking for some quick community insight on the fourth and final member of our group for an upcoming Kingmaker campaign arc we're running. So far, our group consists of:

- A Paladin who plans to tank and focus (as well as a Pally can) on group healing via Channel Energy

- A Ranger who will attempt to serve as the group's scout/skill monkey/glass cannon.

- An Inquisitor who will serve as party face and supplement the group's healing and damage dealing capacities, albeit less effectively.

And that leaves me. I am really open to any suggestion on what class best fills the remaining gaps in our group. Obviously, there's a glaring need for Arcane Casting. I was considering playing either a Vivisectionist Alchemist, mainly because I think they're cool, or a Magus to give our Paladin a flanking buddy and add that 3/4 Arcane caster power. Now I'm starting to think that maybe a Wizard is the best bet...but I've always thought they were so boring to play.

At any rate, I'm really interested in hearing what you all have to say! Tell me how dumb my ideas are and that a wizard is the obvious choice.

The lack of a full caster and the lack of arcane magic in general scream out at me. Here's a few ideas:

Wizard/magaambyan arcanist. Be a wizard...be a druid... be both! The ability to cherry pick druid spells is very useful in a outdoors adventure

Empyral sorcerer/Zen archer

Three levels of zen archer give you wisdom for your to hit and your AC. With wisdom as your casting stat you are very SAD. Sorcerer 17 still gives you 9th level spells too.

Or if the ranger and inquisitor plan on focusing on archery then how about this as an oddball build:

Ranger 2/Wizard 5/eldritch knight remainder.

Be a half orc take the toothy alternate trait. Take two levels of ranger to get natural weapon style and aspect of the beast for claws. Now you have 3 natural attacks. Start going wizard until level 5. You should be able to keep up in melee with 3 attacks at your highest bab even without a massive strength score. AC will be an issue. I'd probably suggest INT> DEX>STR and just go with weapon finesse. Also I'd probably wear armor. Eat the small chance of spell failure until you can get arcane armor training. Arcane strike will make up some of the strength difference. (take the trait that gives you +2 caster level, it works on arcane strike as well.) Once you start going eldritch knight your bab will catch up to all the other 3/4 guys in your party and you'll even be hitting more often since all your natural attacks are at your highest bab. (See if your GM will let you reskin the character as half lycanthrope. No changes mechanically but it'd feel more nature orientated.)


Blueluck wrote:
I'm currently playing Kingmaker, nearly done with the 4th book. I think your group of Paladin, Ranger, Inquisitor, ________ is a great start. The majority of the campaign takes place outdoors, so it's a great adventure to try out mounts and animal companions.

Our group is Paladin, Rogue, Oracle, Witch. I'm playing the Paladin, and the only adjustment I'd make to the party is that I wish we had a ranger instead of a rogue. The outdoorsman skills would have been much more useful than the trap skills, and archery would be easier for our new guy than sneak attack.


What I'm not seeing in your group makeup:

- Someone who can make use of spellbooks
- A full caster
- Support healer

Not that you need any of those.

What can work out well in Kingmaker are Cavaliers, even medium sized ones. But small ones are better.

Spoiler:
Because of the Loot given in the AP I can highly recommend having at least one small pc in your party. We have none and keep selling lots of nice stuff.


Thanks for the advice all. Also, just in case it might help with any forthcoming suggestions, the characters for this campaign will be utilizing a 25 pt buy with max starting gold and a freebie mount to begin play.

@Wally the Wizard: Those are all really good suggestions. The funky E.K. build is actually really intriuging. I'll definitely look into that as a possibility. Also the Empyreal Sorcerer/Z.A. build is something to consider. MAD is really plaguing some of my builds I've kicked around thus far.

@Blueluck: I agree, I think the other guys have picked some solid choices. When I go for an Arcane caster I typically think Wizard because I like getting into the higher level spells more quickly. The sorcerer's slightly slower spell progression always bugged me but the bloodlines really have given you a reason to play them.

@Umbranus: I'll keep that in mind ;). Wouldn't want to miss out on any nice goodies.


Dud Muffin wrote:
@Blueluck: I agree, I think the other guys have picked some solid choices. When I go for an Arcane caster I typically think Wizard because I like getting into the higher level spells more quickly. The sorcerer's slightly slower spell progression always bugged me but the bloodlines really have given you a reason to play them.

I usually go for Wizards too, for similar reasons. Maybe one of the reasons I'd be making a Sylvan Sorcerer in this case is that I've been meaning to try out a Sorcerer:)


Dud Muffin wrote:

Thanks for the advice all. Also, just in case it might help with any forthcoming suggestions, the characters for this campaign will be utilizing a 25 pt buy with max starting gold and a freebie mount to begin play.

@Wally the Wizard: Those are all really good suggestions. The funky E.K. build is actually really intriuging. I'll definitely look into that as a possibility. Also the Empyreal Sorcerer/Z.A. build is something to consider. MAD is really plaguing some of my builds I've kicked around thus far.

I was thinking about the EK build some more and if you went with the Freebooter ranger archetype I think it could be a big boost. Freebooter gets a +1 to hit/damage bonus for the whole party that can be used as many times as you like. It's a move action but since you'll be casting a lot of standard action spells you'll have move actions to spare. Your party is low on buffing so a +1 untyped bonus will be a pretty big boon. Make it a river pirate rather than an open seas type and the fluff still mostly fits.

Edit: Thought about this even more. If you go with a dex focus you can make a half decent switch hitter. You'll have the bow proficiency and you don't need to take quick draw because you just drop the bow and you're armed with natural weapons.

Stats: Str 12 (2pt) Dex 18 (10pt +2 racial) Con 14 (5 pt) Int 16 (10 pt) Wis 10 Cha 8 (-2 pt)

Level one take weapon finesse as your feat. Grab a longbow and every combat you start by using your freebooter ability and then take a shot with the bow, enemy closes and you've got your bite attack. You'll be attacking at +6 (1 bab, +1 freebooter, 4 dex) for 1d8+2 plus giving the whole party a +1 bonus. Your AC with a chain shirt is 18. That's pretty strong for 1st level.

Second level same as first but when they enemy closes you drop the bow and get 3 attacks.

Third through seventh level you pick up arcane strike and power attack/deadly aim. When you can you sacrifice accuracy for damage. Arcane armor training and mithral takes care of the spell failure chance.

ability increase wise go dex for 4 and 8 and Int for 12,16,20. that gets you the 19 Int for spells and keeps your dex high for to hit and AC.


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We have found that a wizard has been useful. You have plently of time to craft items, unlike many APs

The Exchange

Well, you've got three weapon-oriented characters around, so somebody to sling energy damage would fill a need - particularly a character with fire and/or acid-type spells, in case of regenerators. An elementalist wizard or a sorceror/oracle with the appropriate specializations might be nice.

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