New Trait Fate's Favored


Rules Questions

1 to 50 of 210 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hi there,

in the Trait Section of Ultimate Campaign there are quite a few new ones. One that caught my eye is:

Fate’s Favored: The fates watch over you. Whenever you
are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that
bonus increases by 1.

Do you think that works with the Half-Orc alternate racial trait?

Sacred Tattoo: Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

I am not sure that this could be considered an effect?


I would say so


Nice synergy there. It looks like it works, but I would expect an errata/FAQ on that one. It's already been established that a trait is supposed to be roughly equal to half a feat (there is a feat that lets you take two extra traits). This combo gives you THREE feats (Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, and Great Fortitude), all for just two traits.

Or, in other words, if you qualify for both Traits, you could spend just one feat to get the benefits of the three I just listed (and Luck bonuses stack with those three feats so you could still take any of them, too, if you want).

That sounds like way too much power creep and I bet it doesn't stand the test of time - I predict a dev revision.


DM_Blake wrote:

Nice synergy there. It looks like it works, but I would expect an errata/FAQ on that one. It's already been established that a trait is supposed to be roughly equal to half a feat (there is a feat that lets you take two extra traits). This combo gives you THREE feats (Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, and Great Fortitude), all for just two traits.

Is that true for both traits and racial traits? Because the Sacred Tattoo is a racial trait (not to be, but invariably will be, confused with a race trait) so if they are treated differently it might not get the same reaction as if they were both "traits".

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Trading Orc Ferocity for Sacred Tattoo is already a very good trade for most characters.

Having the luck bonus from Sacred Tatto or Halfling Luck double with a trait seem a bit overpowered.

AFAIK what is an "effect" is not defined anywhere.

Bonus is defined in the CRB:

Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

I would say that RAW it will work without doubt. On the other hand getting a +2 luck bonus to all the Saving throws at level 1 is a bit too convenient.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

This sounds awesome for an Archaeologist Bard.

DM_Blake wrote:
Nice synergy there. It looks like it works, but I would expect an errata/FAQ on that one. It's already been established that a trait is supposed to be roughly equal to half a feat (there is a feat that lets you take two extra traits).

Finding Haleen, Defender of the Society, Blade of Mercy, Lessons of Chaldira, Defensive Strategist, Magical Knack, Magical Lineage, Wayang Spell Hunter, Tusked, Focused Mind, Two World Magic, and Glory of Old say hi.

Traits are completely out of whack and have been forever.


Hmmm, I may have to remake my halfling (Bard) Archaeologist; she will look really nice, especially with the Alternate Racial Trait: Adaptable Luck and it's follow up Feats, Fortunate One and Adaptive Fortune; that will be a +5 Luck Bonus 5/day. Plus her Archaeologist Luck bonus being +1 higher! Lingering Performance added into the mix for the win, =)


VRMH wrote:
Fate’s Favored wrote:
Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.

Taken literally, this trait increases all other bonuses by +1, and so stacks with itself: it does not confer a trait-bonus, but increases all types of bonuses instead. If you have three different bonuses running, each is increased by +1 for a total of +3.

That can't be right.

No, its not. If that's how it worked it would stack infinitely. Pretty sure that's not how it works.


MrSin wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Fate’s Favored wrote:
Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.

Taken literally, this trait increases all other bonuses by +1, and so stacks with itself: it does not confer a trait-bonus, but increases all types of bonuses instead. If you have three different bonuses running, each is increased by +1 for a total of +3.

That can't be right.

No, its not. If that's how it worked it would stack infinitely. Pretty sure that's not how it works.

Yeah, I removed that post after I re-read it: the trait increases luck bonuses, which of course do not stack with each other.


Swashbucklersdc wrote:
Hmmm, I may have to remake my halfling (Bard) Archaeologist; she will look really nice, especially with the Alternate Racial Trait: Adaptable Luck and it's follow up Feats, Fortunate One and Adaptive Fortune; that will be a +5 Luck Bonus 5/day. Plus her Archaeologist Luck bonus being +1 higher! Lingering Performance added into the mix for the win, =)

There's some waste/overlap, but also don't forget at higher levels to get a stone of good luck, which adds +1 luck to all skills, saves, and ability checks (which includes initiative). There is also the similarly priced luck blade (with 0 wishes) which adds +1 to saves and gives a reroll on a d20 1/day, but I'd rather have the skill/ability checks +1 constantly than the reroll, unless it's a low-skilled character like a fighter.


Isn't the halfling's luck bonus a "racial" one and not a "luck" one? thus it shouldn't be affected, right? - would be ironic if those lucky bastards of all people couldn't be favored by fate...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Alternate Race Trait is a Luck Bonus, not a racial one. The normal +1 to all saves for halflings is a racial bonus.


Just now found that out, skimming through the Halfling rules. - It looked like they were talking about normal Halfling luck before though...

This is even cooler since it's a +3 to anything a few times a day, or +2 if you decide to activate it after the fact!

Adaptive Fortune would increase that to a +5 / +4 - 5 times a day - at which point the +1 difference wouldn't matter as much. you could just use it whenever you just failed at something important by 4 or less... wow. Desna be with you (for the price of 2 1/2 feats and not getting normal Halfling Luck)... nice! :)


It should work nicely with the half-orc Sacred Tattoo alternate racial trait. +2 to all saving throws is equivalent to three feats.


What a necro.

But yeah, Half-orc Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored combos. It's about 3 feats worth for the price of 1.5 (Orc Ferocity, as bad as it is, is approximately worth a feat). Not including the stacking AC bonus for, say, a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000 gp, what a steal), or bonus to hit and damage from Cleric self-buffs or Luckstone


Expect it to be errata'd out of existence.


Its been around for a while and its a well known add on for a small number of builds. it is cool if thats what you already wanted to play but not ridiculous. I have a Half-Orc Inquisitor who uses it to go "paladin-lite". Pop Divine Favor for an easy +2/+2 hit and damage for a fight at level one as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The orc racial trait needs to be errata'd to a racial bonus as well.

The UC trait is fine as is since it isn't always active (which will be especially true after the above errata). :P

Scarab Sages

Secret Wizard wrote:
Expect it to be errata'd out of existence.

Yeah, enjoy it while it lasts. It's seriously too good. I'd take it as a feat, much less a trait. It's almost mandatory if you are any one of a half-orc, a warpriest/inquisitor/battle cleric/oracle, or a archaeologist bard. Even if not, it's worth taking extra traits at 9th level once you've bought a jingasa.

I would expect the errata to change it to once a day, with a duration of one round.


I would expect the orc racial to get nerfed before Fate's Favored. The warpriest seems to have been balanced around the existence of that trait. Although, the warpriest could certainly stand to have a retread.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

This trait is better than a lot of feats. Thats not much of a bar though. There are a lot of traits that are better than feats in situational builds though. River Rat and Heavy Handed can both add a permanent static boost to damage for every attack if that is what you are building for. Hunter's Eye is strictly better than a feat for what it does as well. likewise some Racial Traits are equal too or better than many of the feat options. Magical Lineage is impossible to replicate without the trait. Armor Expert lets some builds never go without their armor. none of these things are exactly game breaking but they can be defining aspects of some builds. that is a good place for traits to occupy to me. if changes need to be made it is the entire trait listing as there are already too many outliers available.

Sczarni

Simkiria wrote:

Hi there,

in the Trait Section of Ultimate Campaign there are quite a few new ones. One that caught my eye is:

Fate’s Favored: The fates watch over you. Whenever you
are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that
bonus increases by 1.

Do you think that works with the Half-Orc alternate racial trait?

Sacred Tattoo: Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.

I am not sure that this could be considered an effect?

Luck Bonus of Any Kind. Key words.

Half Orc = +1 Luck Bonus on All Saving Throws. That now increases to a +2.

A Luck Bonus is a Luck Bonus. Great find. This is one of the more useful traits IMO - especially if you have access to a Jingasa or Cleric Spells like Divine Favor/Power.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

It's supposed to be balanced around how rare Luck bonuses are, but that doesn't work out as a balance. Because you can build around it and make it useful almost all of the time.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My preferred nerf would be to only allow Fate's Favored to boost temporary luck bonuses. This would still allow it to work with Divine Favor, but not be a permanent +1 to saves or AC for half-orcs and jingasa wearers.

It's still worth taking, and is still very good for the warpriest, but it's not as good in all situations.


I am in a game now where the half orc has this combo... I don't think the GM knows, but +2 to all saves, jeez...

I kinda HOPE this gets removed.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

It is not that bad as people think. Having half-orc having a Sacred Tattoo is basically the Headband of Fortune's Favor (Lucky Horseshoe for Occult Adventurers). Magical Lineage is more powerful.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cao Phen wrote:
It is not that bad as people think. Having half-orc having a Sacred Tattoo is basically theca Headband of Fortune's Favor (Lucky Horseshoe for Occult Adventurers). Magical Lineage is more powerful.

I have a half-orc warpriest with sacred tattoo and fate's favored. It's more powerful than a trait should be. Magical Lineage being more broken than it doesn't mean that fate's favored isn't too strong.


It's not too powerful, but it's more powerful than any other trait out there except the metamagic feats.

If anything, I'd expect Warpriests to get some other kind of buff (perhaps a nice featline) rather than depend on a trait that should be related to background, not optimization.


Cao Phen wrote:
It is not that bad as people think. Having half-orc having a Sacred Tattoo is basically the Headband of Fortune's Favor (Lucky Horseshoe for Occult Adventurers). Magical Lineage is more powerful.

Throw a luckstone on the character and get +2 to all skill checks as well! Woohoo!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Magical Lineage is likewise a nifty trick... unless you are a specific class that builds around it, then it becomes defining to the concept. The game is too large to balance all options around how one or two builds could abuse it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

They just did the remake of advanced race and didn't change the half-orc at all. so doubt they'll go that route if they do do anything.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

It's useful, it's very good, it's powerful, I agree on all counts.

The thing is, it isn't really being abused. The combo has found its way into a few builds, and those builds tend to be ones that use luck bonuses for more than just saves.

It isn't broken, so why fix it?


ShieldLawrence wrote:

It's useful, it's very good, it's powerful, I agree on all counts.

The thing is, it isn't really being abused. The combo has found its way into a few builds, and those builds tend to be ones that use luck bonuses for more than just saves.

It isn't broken, so why fix it?

I say it is broken, because it DOES allow for a +2 to all saves with zero feat investment.

It's as powerful as three feats combined, with none of the commitment.

Granted, only one race can do it, but it isn't like half-orcs are uncommon, or a poor choice for race...


Its pretty good...

So for a halfing whose prepared to invest 1 trait and 2 feats:

+5 to any rolls 5/day ?


Silver Surfer wrote:

Its pretty good...

So for a halfing whose prepared to invest 1 trait and 2 feats:

+5 to any rolls 5/day ?

Meh, I hardly think of rolls/day when I talk about broken stuff...

The permanent +2 to all saves is in effect all the time. That is potentially... well, billions of uses per day.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It requires a trait (nominally 1/2 a feat) and a racial trait for one race to pull off. Racial Traits are hard to pin down in value since they have probably a wider swing than any other character option. Humans have a Racial Trait that is worth exactly one feat. Yay, easy to weigh. Then there is skilled which is like three feats at level 9 but is only one and a half by level 10 but goes past the value of three feats at level 20. they can give up both of those Race Traits for a permanent +2 to a stat which cant be valued in terms of feat worth as there is no comparable feat to it but you pay between 2-4 feat "dollars" to get it. Is it over or under powered for humans to be dual talented? For half orcs you give up 1 1/2- 2 feat bucks for a three feat value, its a good deal. but not such a great bargain that every half orc does it. And They are limited options. Fate's Favored will forever lock you out of other Traits in its category. Racial Traits cant be manipulated once set. Feats can be selected and changed around during the course of the game so if something isnt coming up as often as you thought you can retrain your feats but not your Traits or Racial Traits and you will end up with a much larger feat budget to play with. The opportunity cost is much higher to use your traits and racials to pull it off.


Torbyne wrote:
It requires a trait (nominally 1/2 a feat) and a racial trait for one race to pull off. Racial Traits are hard to pin down in value since they have probably a wider swing than any other character option. Humans have a Racial Trait that is worth exactly one feat. Yay, easy to weigh. Then there is skilled which is like three feats at level 9 but is only one and a half by level 10 but goes past the value of three feats at level 20. they can give up both of those Race Traits for a permanent +2 to a stat which cant be valued in terms of feat worth as there is no comparable feat to it but you pay between 2-4 feat "dollars" to get it. Is it over or under powered for humans to be dual talented? For half orcs you give up 1 1/2- 2 feat bucks for a three feat value, its a good deal. but not such a great bargain that every half orc does it. And They are limited options. Fate's Favored will forever lock you out of other Traits in its category. Racial Traits cant be manipulated once set. Feats can be selected and changed around during the course of the game so if something isnt coming up as often as you thought you can retrain your feats but not your Traits or Racial Traits and you will end up with a much larger feat budget to play with. The opportunity cost is much higher to use your traits and racials to pull it off.

A perfectly valid argument.

Frankly, you are pretty much on the money with everything you said...

I just don't LIKE how this combo works, it really is three feats worth of benefit for zero feat cost.

That's not what traits are supposed to do.

I do often play humans to get the extra feat, or to trade it in for extra stats, so I see where you are coming from.

On a related note, I've always considered humans the best race, is this normal?

Scarab Sages

Torbyne wrote:
For half orcs you give up 1 1/2- 2 feat bucks for a three feat value, its a good deal. but not such a great bargain that every half orc does it.

Every half orc that I have played or played with that isn't a pre-gen has done it. Ferocity is almost never going to save you. +2 to saves will save you freqently.

Torbyne wrote:


And They are limited options. Fate's Favored will forever lock you out of other Traits in its category.

If there were other faith traits that were worthwhile, this might be a concern. Irrepressible is the only real contender, and that doesn't stack with Steadfast Personality.

Torbyne wrote:


Racial Traits cant be manipulated once set. Feats can be selected and changed around during the course of the game so if something isnt coming up as often as you thought you can retrain your feats but not your Traits or Racial Traits and you will end up with a much larger feat budget to play with. The opportunity cost is much higher to use your traits and racials to pull it off.

You can retrain traits. Step 1: Take Extra Traits Feat. Pick two new traits. Step 2: Retrain out of extra traits. Drop the trait you wanted to change.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fate's Favored is a nice low-investment bonus for Half-Orcs, but there are few cases where you'd choose a Half-Orc over the alternatives for that alone. Warpriests are an exception, very much not the rule.

For example - would you choose definitely choose a Half-Orc/Fate's Favored combo for a Melee Cleric/Oracle who sometimes opens a fight with Divine Favor at low levels, but will switch to Blessing of Fervor or Righteous Might at higher levels? Not a clear-cut choice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Corvino wrote:

Fate's Favored is a nice low-investment bonus for Half-Orcs, but there are few cases where you'd choose a Half-Orc over the alternatives for that alone. Warpriests are an exception, very much not the rule.

For example - would you choose definitely choose a Half-Orc/Fate's Favored combo for a Melee Cleric/Oracle who sometimes opens a fight with Divine Favor at low levels, but will switch to Blessing of Fervor or Righteous Might at higher levels? Not a clear-cut choice.

I realize it's anecdotal, but literally every half orc I have seen since this became an available combo has had it.

Every... single... one.

Heck, I used it as a GM! All my npc half orcs had it! WHY NOT? +2 to all saves is HUGE!

Anywho, some people think it's 'broken', some don't. Whatevs.

I haven't banned it, don't really plan to... I just don't like it. It's far more powerful than most other traits. It stands out. It's 'too good' IMO.

I would not be upset if the removed it or changed it.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Lots of things are "too good": classes, class features, archetypes, traits, feats and spells all have offenders. Many builds (even some whole classes) rely on these "features" to work!

As long as Fate's Favored is only "too good" on Half-Orcs & Warpriests then why is it an issue? Why are we not all calling for Armor Expert, Power Attack, Magical Lineage, Wayang Spell Hunter, Spell Perfection, Haste, Fey Foundling, Shamans, Student of Philosophy/Empiricist Investigators etc to face the nerf-bat too?

The short answer is that someone necro'd a 2 year old thread. It's just a game.


Corvino wrote:

Lots of things are "too good": classes, class features, archetypes, traits, feats and spells all have offenders. Many builds (even some whole classes) rely on these "features" to work!

As long as Fate's Favored is only "too good" on Half-Orcs & Warpriests then why is it an issue? Why are we not all calling for Armor Expert, Power Attack, Magical Lineage, Wayang Spell Hunter, Spell Perfection, Haste, Fey Foundling, Shamans, Student of Philosophy/Empiricist Investigators etc to face the nerf-bat too?

The short answer is that someone necro'd a 2 year old thread. It's just a game.

why on earth would you use an example like power attack?

;)

This is all subjective, I have my opinion, you have yours.

It's okay that we don't agree.

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I love Fate's Favored with my half-orcs. I'd be disappointed to see it go away. Saves are a passive power boost.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I see where you are coming from but disagree that it should be removed. How is this for a comparison, Fate's Favored is the Power Attack of the Trait world. Power Attack is largely accepted as an amazing feat that any character investing in strength needs to take. Should Power Attack be toned down to be more in line with other feat options? As a percentage how many barbarians would you say take the feat? Or Rapid Shot and bows.

Scarab Sages

Corvino wrote:


As long as Fate's Favored is only "too good" on Half-Orcs & Warpriests then why is it an issue?

As I said up thread, it's not just Half-Orcs & Warpriests. It Archeologist Bards, anyone that has access to Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Prayer (common divine buffs), and anyone who has an Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, a luckstone, a suit of lucky drunk's mail, headband of fortune's favor, or any other luck bonus.

If there was a trait that increased any morale bonus by +1, would that be okay because it's only "too good" on barbarians and people who use heroism and bless?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:
Corvino wrote:


As long as Fate's Favored is only "too good" on Half-Orcs & Warpriests then why is it an issue?

As I said up thread, it's not just Half-Orcs & Warpriests. It Archeologist Bards, anyone that has access to Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Prayer (common divine buffs), and anyone who has an Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, a luckstone, a suit of lucky drunk's mail, headband of fortune's favor, or any other luck bonus.

If there was a trait that increased any morale bonus by +1, would that be okay because it's only "too good" on barbarians and people who use heroism and bless?

No, but if it was a +1 equivalent weapon enhancement then it's totally broken.


Torbyne wrote:
I see where you are coming from but disagree that it should be removed. How is this for a comparison, Fate's Favored is the Power Attack of the Trait world. Power Attack is largely accepted as an amazing feat that any character investing in strength needs to take. Should Power Attack be toned down to be more in line with other feat options? As a percentage how many barbarians would you say take the feat? Or Rapid Shot and bows.

I never said I removed it, I did say I wouldn't miss it if it was gone.

I allow it in my games, but if the character winds up being OP, I sit the player down and bring it in line with the rest of the party.

This combo has shown up on LITERALLY every single half orc I've seen in game since it was available.

It pretty much came down to telling my friend he was a powergamer, and having to ask him to dial it back a bit.

It's ALMOST broken enough for me to ban, and I do NOT ban a lot of stuff in my games.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think you made a good point yourself though, its not OP on its own. it can be used as part of very powerful builds but its only a part of that. if you have to sit someone down because they are outshining the rest of the players and they need to take it down its probably not this combo that is doing that.


Torbyne wrote:
I think you made a good point yourself though, its not OP on its own. it can be used as part of very powerful builds but its only a part of that. if you have to sit someone down because they are outshining the rest of the players and they need to take it down its probably not this combo that is doing that.

*shrugs*

+2 to all saves without even a feat being used smells like Gouda to me.

It get's eye-rolls and groans from multiple people when this shows up at our table... again... and again.

1 to 50 of 210 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / New Trait Fate's Favored All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.