New Trait Fate's Favored

[Felyndiira]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Any braindead person who knows how to math will tell you that the +1 to (effectively) everything will be better than the +1 to just one sub-thing of a thing. There's been marketing schemes that examplify just that.

Keep in mind, though - it's not +1 to everything until you get the relevant items.

Jingasa is approximately a level 6+ item, even if you get it as the earliest possible opportunity.

Luckstone is 20k, which means it won't come into play for a while. Getting a Cloak of Resistance from +3 to +5 is cheaper than that. The silly inner sea guide armors are nice, but now you're stuck wearing a +1 Chain Mail that might not even be upgradable.

I am not aware of any items that give +Luck to attack or damage rolls. Cleric buffs does this, of course (and the trait is excellent for Clerics),

Thus, for most classes, the +1 to most things do not come online for a while - until you have enough money to buy the items in question. That (being a late-bloomer), in my opinion, is a good balancing factor for the trait when most traits pay off almost immediately. The main issues here are Divine Favor (which I'm okay with) and the Half-Orc racial (which can easily be changed to a insight/morale bonus or something).

[shroudb]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You do realize, that even in PFS, you can reflavor traits.

It's not overpowered, and I feel you are seriously blowing it out of proportion.

That's my feelings on it anyway.

Also, if you must drop other editions, and gloat how good they are, then my only response can be, go play it instead.

As an option to take? It's not overpowered. It's no more overpowered than using a +2 sword over a +1 sword. I don't think the problem is that the option, in itself, is overpowered.

It's the relative power level in comparison to the other options available. Instead of taking a +1 to all Will Saves, or a +2 to Saves V.S. Mind-Affecting Effects, which are the other most common trait selections, you can instead take a (potential) +1 to Attack, Damage, Skills, Ability Checks, and of course, all saves (not just Will Saves).

Any braindead person who knows how to math will tell you that the +1 to (effectively) everything will be better than the +1 to just one sub-thing of a thing. There's been marketing schemes that examplify just that.

again:

while SOME traits are weaker than feats SOME OTHER are far stronger for some builds (or even ofter things that you couldn't possible get with feats):

case in point:
bruising intellect.
for the bog standard wizard at lvl1 this gives a +7 to intimidate. MORE THAN DOUBLE compared to skill focus (intimidate)
by lvl10 (when skill focus gets it's bump) the wizard will probably have around +8 int (if not +9), giving the wizard +10-+11 to intimidate compared to the +6, again nearly double the profit.

same for pragmatic activator.

armor expert can straight up allow someone to wear the best medium armor (mithril breastplate) without having any sort of armor proficiency (2 feats to get it for some builds)

deadeye bowman, gives a lesser version of improved precise shot, a feat, that a 3/4bab class needs to wait lvl 15 to get

second chance allows the reroll of any one saving throw. compared to improved iron will/reflexes/fort which only apply to one category AND have another feat as requirement

the 2 metamagic reducing traits are flat out unavailable as anything other than traits, and arguably are much stronger than a feat each

the +2 cl is similar to having 2 cl ioun stones which is straight up ~60k worth in equip

irreprisible can be as high as +7 to two of the most dangerous will saving throws categories, at lvl1, scaling even higher later on.

community minded is more than 1 feat worth for a skald (since it also affects his morale spells) but for some other builds, like a nobility warpriest it 3ples their effective blessing duration for no other cost than the trait

defensive strategist is basically uncanny dodge

campaign specific traits... don't get me started, a lot of them are equal to at leas TWO feats each, but usually they aren't in play, so i wont mention them here

etc

there are plenty of +1 to x traits, but there are also plenty of character changing/enabling traits ot there that a lot of people conveniently forget that are of equal, if not greater, power compared to to fate's favored.
(again, disclayemer: for SPECIFIC builds)

[chuffster]

Torbyne wrote:

Looking at traits more generally in comparison to feats, it just occurred to me that there are traits that do what feats try to and do it better in some instances. Case in point; Intimidating Prowess and Bruising Intellect. Perhaps some of this is an attempt to change the dynamic of options? Traits do provide a better option for something from a quirk of upbringing rather than a result of training which seems to be the main gist of feats. It would be interesting to see a designer chime in or write a blog post on how option philosophy has shifted since the CRB was published and new sub systems were added to the game.

I think the balancing factor with Intimidating Prowess is that it stacks with your CHA bonus instead of replacing it. Of course for somebody who dumped CHA this is even more of a benefit to the trait.

BTW, here's another balancing rule of thumb: how many people take extra traits right off the bat to get access to all of these overpowered traits?

[Torbyne]

chuffster wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

Looking at traits more generally in comparison to feats, it just occurred to me that there are traits that do what feats try to and do it better in some instances. Case in point; Intimidating Prowess and Bruising Intellect. Perhaps some of this is an attempt to change the dynamic of options? Traits do provide a better option for something from a quirk of upbringing rather than a result of training which seems to be the main gist of feats. It would be interesting to see a designer chime in or write a blog post on how option philosophy has shifted since the CRB was published and new sub systems were added to the game.

I think the balancing factor with Intimidating Prowess is that it stacks with your CHA bonus instead of replacing it. Of course for somebody who dumped CHA this is even more of a benefit to the trait.

BTW, here's another balancing rule of thumb: how many people take extra traits right off the bat to get access to all of these overpowered traits?

I had a Magus that almost took the feat once but then i realized i was going to end up tripling on magical traits so i waved off on it.

[Hmm]

Dekalinder wrote:

Let's stop this crap about traits being "for flavor". Traits actually hamper flavour since if you want to be a competent mage, you got to be born in Wayang, if you want to be a competent EK you gotta have some weird ancestor ecc. ecc. The moment something gives a mechanical bonus, is not anymore there "for flavour". You take it because of the bonus it gives. Besides, reskinning traits is extremely common.

I have yet to take Wayang Spell Hunter on a caster character, but I did take the time once to look up information about Minata, the region associated with the trait. If you select this trait, you're essentially saying that you grew up or spent a lot of time in an asian archipelago frequented by pirates and smugglers. Oh, man! How cool is that for a character backstory?

I keep getting disappointed when I meet PCs with that trait who don't have anything piratey or asian about them. I

I will say with confidence that EVERY character that I've created has had their backstory and personality influenced by the traits I've taken. When my sylvan sorceress, Zahra, had to take a Katapesh trait, Savannah Child, to get Handle Animal skill, I read up on Keleshite princesses and Katapeshi society.

Every adventure, she introduces herself proudly in her arabic-flavored accent: "Greetings, I'm Zahra, and this is Omar and ve are from Kat-a-pesh!" or "Come say hello. Ve are from Kat-a-pesh! Ve are very friendly!"

Traits give you a golden opportunity to add depth to a character. BTW, I do love Fate's Favored trait, but believe it should be roleplayed with a sort of debonair cockiness and much derring-do. After all, you're a lucky guy!

Hmm

[Aelryinth]

Anytime you start comparing a feat or trait that operates off a stat instead of providing a fixed bonus, the Stat-derived is going to be HELLS BETTER then the fixed bonus.

That's a known benefit of stat-based stuff.

You may as well be comparing Weapon Focus to Weapon Finesse for rogues.

It's also why you should be very, very careful in doing stat subs for feats and traits.

==Aelryinth

[Liz Courts]

Let's dial back the hyperbole, folks. You can have this discussion without being insulting towards each other.

[wakedown]

I've just crawled out from under a rock where I was looking the other direction while the latest flurry of Summer errata came out and changed a lot of the game.

I've spent about 5-10 mins of various forum searching to see if Fate's Favored "stuff" has been altered at all, yet.

It appears it's still intact, although it's also on my "I expect it to change along with a lot of other changes" list. I know at least 30 PFS characters with this trait (making it likely as popular as Magic Lineage, Wayang Spellhunter and Reactionary).

Is an Ultimate Campaign reprint on the horizon where a change here is imminent?

[Imbicatus]

wakedown wrote:

Is an Ultimate Campaign reprint on the horizon where a change here is imminent?

It's possible. It was released over 2 years ago.

[Nefreet]

I also expect it to be errata'd, and for such errata to stir up the community. Fate's Favored is a cornerstone for a lot of builds.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that earlier in this thread, but so many posts were removed that we should probably just start a new thread in the General Discussion forum at this point.

[Claxon]

Spam already flagged.