I'm looking to make a TWF character, and was wondering which class(es) would make the best choice. It is a feat intensive build, so pretty much all thr Feats of a normal class would be dedicated to it. My thoughts so far are:
Barbarian gets some nice boosts/attack through rage and rage powers (powerful blow and elemental rage) and has a pounce ability (Greater Beast Totem), but is probably better suited to natural attacks.
Fighter. Initially dismissed in my mind, I have now looked again and noted that weapons mastery provides some nice bonuses/attack as well as weapon specialization and various archetypes provide pounce-lite abilities (Maneouvre master or dawnflower dervish) or Lock-down capabilities (Two weapon warrior or brawler) whch improve the possibility of getting full attacks. Still suffers from MAD though.
Inquisitor I like the thought of this character, with his judgements boosting his to-hit and damage while bane gives a solid 2d6/attack boosting to 4d6 with Greater bane. Teamwork feats can give a charge as an immediate action, allowing a full attack afterwardand you get spells too.
On the other hand, How sustainable are all these boosts? Will they be available in most combats or will this character have to fall back on spells/unboosted combat on several occasions. Also the character would be super-MAD, needing some WIS to power spells and abilities as well as high DEX, STR and CON.
Monk. technically not TWF since they will use FoB, but flavour wise it would feel the same if they were using Monk weapons. No real damage options unless using Fists, which moves away from TWF.
Paladin. Smite gives a nice boost to attack and damage, lasts all combat (until target is dead) and is plentiful at higher levels. Also ignores DR. Only useful against Evil, so against non-Evil would be severely gimped. Also less useful against multiple targets since it can only target one at a time. Super-MAD due to dependency on CHA.
Ranger. Can access feat chain without super-high DEX (though some DEX important to mitigate lower ac). Can use Animal Companion to help Trip/Pin opponents, gains bonus feats inthe chain. FE provides nice boosts, but is highly situational until you get instant enemy.
Rogue. Sneak attack provides a nice damage boost, but is highly situational. Rogues suffer from lower BAB, lower ac and lower hp. Not a frontline character.
All told, I prefer Fighter or Ranger, but i am not sure which would be better.
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2hw fighter/ MoMS. Use a nodachi and unarmed strike as your two weapons and get x2 str with you nodachi, and 1.5 str (dragon style and dragon ferocity) with your unarmed strike. When you get enough iterations, pick up boar style and boar rend to do bleed dmg when you hit with 2 UAS' and take two weapon rend to just be silly with it. Use light armor with the brawling property to get an untyped +2 to hit and dmg, and an AoMF to kick it up even higher, and use weapon training to up your nodachi to hit and dmg and enchant that as you see fit. Then enter beast mode and laugh at all other TWFers who try to keep up with you. You want an 18 str and pump your dex after that, make sure you get a good con to stay alive. Your HP, saves, skills, skill selection, and dmg will be better than all other fighter builds, and you will have evasion... Have fun, and make people stare with their jaws dropped.
My next suggestion would be ranger 7/ grey warden x, because you combine the three best options of ranger, inquisitor, and rogue. Your dmg is a bit more situational, but you end up throwing down some nice numbers, and your skills, saves, RP potential, and in/ out of combat utility is par excellence in comparison to the fighter/ monk. Only problem, is you are a late bloomer.
2hw fighter/ MoMS. Use a nodachi and unarmed strike as your two weapons and get x2 str with you nodachi, and 1.5 str (dragon style and dragon ferocity) with your unarmed strike. When you get enough iterations, pick up boar style and boar rend to do bleed dmg when you hit with 2 UAS' and take two weapon rend to just be silly with it. Use light armor with the brawling property to get an untyped +2 to hit and dmg, and an AoMF to kick it up even higher, and use weapon training to up your nodachi to hit and dmg and enchant that as you see fit. Then enter beast mode and laugh at all other TWFers who try to keep up with you. You want an 18 str and pump your dex after that, make sure you get a good con to stay alive. Your HP, saves, skills, skill selection, and dmg will be better than all other fighter builds, and you will have evasion... Have fun, and make people stare with their jaws dropped.
No-Dachi is not a Monk weapon. so I could not use it with FoB - I could use one or the other, not both.
Also this build would have no way of guaranteeing a Full Attack (unless I missed something?) so after I have moved up to an opponent and made a standard attack, they could just take a 5' step backward and move away, which means I would have to do another move action and another standard attack - My superior number of attacks would never come into play.
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A Fighter with the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype imho is the best way to go because of the number off attacks u can get off. Other wise a Rogue with the Knife Master and Scout archetype using the two-weapon feint feat is amazing. Also a Sword and Board Fighter makes a great two-weapon fighter since shields do count as weapons and there is a feat that makes it were u dont take the twf penalties. The following character is an mof this that i have played to high levels.
Human
Fighter (Weapon Master Scimitar)
-Stats-
STR 14 (+4 Leveling)(+6 Magic item)
DEX 17 (+2 Racial)(+1 Leveling)
CON 11
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 07
-Feats-
01 Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus Scimitar
02 Combat Expertise
03 Power Attack
04 Weapon Specialization Scimitar
05 Improved Sunder
06 Greater Sunder
07 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
08 Improved Critical
09 Critical Focus
10 Shield Slam
11 Shield Master
12 Bashing Finish
13 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
14 Sundering Strike
15 Tiring Critical
16 Exhausting Critical
17 Sickening Critical
18 Critical Mastery
19 Greater Weapon Focus Scimitar
20 Greater Weapon Specialization Scimitar
-Method-
Use a Heavy Spiked Shield enchanted with +4 for defense and enchanted with Bashing, Holy, and Speed for offense so when u are shield bashing ur shield counts as a +5 holy weapon that does 1d10+str that also does not take the two-weapon fighting penalty and keeping shield bonus to AC. When ever u score a crit with ur Scimitar, on a 15-20 dice roll, u get a free shield bash and sunder while also giving the target the Exhausted and Sickened condition. Scimitar should also be enchanted with Speed to give u 5 attempts to get a free shield bash on those crits. If ur lucky u can get 14 attacks in a single round.
For pure DPR? Fighter all the way.
If you have a 20 point buy or better I recommend getting the whole Eldritch Heritage (orc) bloodline and the optimistic gambler trait.
Nothing does more damage.
A Ranger can do it nearly as well, but has alot more out of combat stuff.
Pick Fighter if pure dpr is what you want (I prefer TWW or Brawler cause they also lockdown/debuff enemies, thereby protecting allies)
Pick Ranger for skills/healing/stealth will slightly less dpr.
Cavalier (bodyguard/stratagist) for Face and battle commander stuff with slightly less dpr.
Pally is more circumstantial but is alot more tanky and can draw aggro with swift LOH and spells like CHALLENGE EVIL.
2hw fighter/ MoMS. Use a nodachi and unarmed strike as your two weapons and get x2 str with you nodachi, and 1.5 str (dragon style and dragon ferocity) with your unarmed strike. When you get enough iterations, pick up boar style and boar rend to do bleed dmg when you hit with 2 UAS' and take two weapon rend to just be silly with it. Use light armor with the brawling property to get an untyped +2 to hit and dmg, and an AoMF to kick it up even higher, and use weapon training to up your nodachi to hit and dmg and enchant that as you see fit. Then enter beast mode and laugh at all other TWFers who try to keep up with you. You want an 18 str and pump your dex after that, make sure you get a good con to stay alive. Your HP, saves, skills, skill selection, and dmg will be better than all other fighter builds, and you will have evasion... Have fun, and make people stare with their jaws dropped.No-Dachi is not a Monk weapon. so I could not use it with FoB - I could use one or the other, not both.
Also this build would have no way of guaranteeing a Full Attack (unless I missed something?) so after I have moved up to an opponent and made a standard attack, they could just take a 5' step backward and move away, which means I would have to do another move action and another standard attack - My superior number of attacks would never come into play.
You are not doing flurry of blows, you are TWFing. MoMS gives up flurry anyway. You only need two lvls of MoMS really, but 4 doesn't suck. Trust me until you can research it, then love it and rub it in people's faces!
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A Fighter with the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype imho is the best way to go because of the number off attacks u can get off. Other wise a Rogue with the Knife Master and Scout archetype using the two-weapon feint feat is amazing. Also a Sword and Board Fighter makes a great two-weapon fighter since shields do count as weapons and there is a feat that makes it were u dont take the twf penalties. The following character is an mof this that i have played to high levels.
Human
Fighter (Weapon Master Scimitar)-Stats-
STR 14 (+4 Leveling)(+6 Magic item)
DEX 17 (+2 Racial)(+1 Leveling)
CON 11
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 07-Feats-
01 Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash, Weapon Focus Scimitar
02 Combat Expertise
03 Power Attack
04 Weapon Specialization Scimitar
05 Improved Sunder
06 Greater Sunder
07 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
08 Improved Critical
09 Critical Focus
10 Shield Slam
11 Shield Master
12 Bashing Finish
13 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
14 Sundering Strike
15 Tiring Critical
16 Exhausting Critical
17 Sickening Critical
18 Critical Mastery
19 Greater Weapon Focus Scimitar
20 Greater Weapon Specialization Scimitar-Method-
Use a Heavy Spiked Shield enchanted with +4 for defense and enchanted with Bashing, Holy, and Speed for offense so when u are shield bashing ur shield counts as a +5 holy weapon that does 1d10+str that also does not take the two-weapon fighting penalty and keeping shield bonus to AC. When ever u score a crit with ur Scimitar, on a 15-20 dice roll, u get a free shield bash and sunder while also giving the target the Exhausted and Sickened condition. Scimitar should also be enchanted with Speed to give u 5 attempts to get a free shield bash on those crits. If ur lucky u can get 14 attacks in a single round.
This is really good.
Personally, (and I'm not saying this is a better build, just my personal preference), I think that a Dervish Dancer with 2 scimitars would be cool.
The best TWF I ever made was a Brawler with a splash of MoMS... an absolute damage machine with some nice tricks up his sleeve.
A general rule of thumb though is to use paired light weapons so that general feats like Focus, Specialization, Improved Crit, etc. apply to both, and to use a weapon with as high a critical chance as possible,- which makes kukris ideal.
Two-Weapon Warrior is the obvious archetype to pursue, but consider as well the Weaponmaster for his accelerated Weapon Training vs. a replacement for Weapon Training for the TWW (meaning no gloves of dueling).
I would say that your two best choices fall into the "eggs in one basket" effect. Namely, do you want to put all of your resources in a few attacks, or get off a flurry of multiple attacks?
If you look at rogue / ninja, sneak attack ensures that those attacks that do hit are going to hit for a big payload. Every additional attack that hits is going to deal a huge payload of damage, and the rogue certainly benefits from getting multiple attacks off in a round. The disadvantage comes from the rogue lacking the fighter's Base Attack Bonus.
For the fighter, aside from the Two Weapon Warrior archetype, there aren't any tricks that the fighter can pull that the rogue can't get access to either. The fighter's big advantage, between having the two-weapon warrior archetype and a slew of extra feats, is that his attacks are more likely to connect, but they'll probably be connecting for less. That is, the fighter is just as strong against foes who are immune to critical hits as he is to those that aren't, and the fighter is going to have enough feats up his sleeve that he will be able to pull multiple tricks aside from being a mere weapon-wielding machine.
The ranger is sort of the middle ground; he gets less feats than the fighter, less bonus damage than the rogue, but he has the advantage of being able to completely ignore his Dex score thanks to Combat Style. This means he'll need less feats than the rogue to be effective, considering the latter is probably picking up Weapon Finesse as a talent for its synergy with Two Weapon Fighting. Favored Enemy basically amounts to more damage than Weapon Specialization, but only against specific opponents. You can trade that ability for the Guide Archetype, but that still has limited uses and doesn't match Smite / Challenge for the usage.
Speaking of Challenge, Samurai are extremely competent Two-Weapon Fighters. They get less Combat Feats than the Ranger, but make up for it with Challenge's damage bonus; it is less bursty than the Rogue's sneak attack, but their static bonus can get very high, very quickly. Several of the Orders also have very potent abilities; my personal favorite is Order of the Cockatrice, but Order of the Dragon is also very useful when looking at group dynamics.
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A small character with the Mounted Skirmisher feat also has a pounce-like ability. Rangers can get the feat by level 10, although they can't take the TWF combat style that way. An emissary cavalier gets it at 14th level and is probably the better choice. You could also dual wield lances for increased power attack damage.
You can't use Dervish Dance with two scimitars. You can, however, use it with a scimitar and armor spikes, although that's certainly not how the feat was intended.
Also this build would have no way of guaranteeing a Full Attack (unless I missed something?) so after I have moved up to an opponent and made a standard attack, they could just take a 5' step backward and move away, which means I would have to do another move action and another standard attack - My superior number of attacks would never come into play.
No, they can't take a 5' Step and then move away. Maybe that's not what you meant, but if it is, then this should help:
"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement." (Core Rulebook, Combat, 5-foot Step).
So, if they 5' move away from you, next round you 5' move to get adjacent and then unload your full attack. If they move away, well, yeah, then you have to follow them with your own move action, but unless you're planning to fight paralyzed, held, or otherwise immobilized opponents, you just gotta figure this is going to happen. On the plus side, it usually means you get twice as many attacks as the enemy: you'll each hit the other one with your Standard attack but you'll get an AoO every time the enemy moves away. Unless they take the Withdraw action, in which case they won't attack you at all and you can, usually, charge them the following round and still get one attack each round while they get none.
(Yeah, I know, some situations can alter any of what I just said, like if the enemy moves faster than you - no charge - so it's not always true, but it's often true).
On a side note, just how exactly did YOU plan to "guarantee" a Full Attack? Short of having a friend teleport your around the battlefield, or having some way of immobilizing your enemy (usually this requires a friend too, unless you have a really good net), you aren't likely to ever "guarantee" a Full Attack.
@ Gavmania
I could be wrong because I did not go and look it up but I think that if a creature takes a 5' step he is not allowed to take any other moves the rest of his turn. Also you can take a 5' step as part of a full attack action.
Also this build would have no way of guaranteeing a Full Attack (unless I missed something?) so after I have moved up to an opponent and made a standard attack, they could just take a 5' step backward and move away, which means I would have to do another move action and another standard attack - My superior number of attacks would never come into play.No, they can't take a 5' Step and then move away. Maybe that's not what you meant, but if it is, then this should help:
"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement." (Core Rulebook, Combat, 5-foot Step).
So, if they 5' move away from you, next round you 5' move to get adjacent and then unload your full attack. If they move away, well, yeah, then you have to follow them with your own move action, but unless you're planning to fight paralyzed, held, or otherwise immobilized opponents, you just gotta figure this is going to happen. On the plus side, it usually means you get twice as many attacks as the enemy: you'll each hit the other one with your Standard attack but you'll get an AoO every time the enemy moves away. Unless they take the Withdraw action, in which case they won't attack you at all and you can, usually, charge them the following round and still get one attack each round while they get none.
(Yeah, I know, some situations can alter any of what I just said, like if the enemy moves faster than you - no charge - so it's not always true, but it's often true).
On a side note, just how exactly did YOU plan to "guarantee" a Full Attack? Short of having a friend teleport your around the battlefield, or having some way of immobilizing your enemy (usually this requires a friend too, unless you have a really good net), you aren't likely to ever "guarantee" a Full Attack.
Thanks for the correction. I was lazy and didn't look up the specifics, so its good to know; in these circumstances it would be better to have a 2HW Fighter than a 2WF.
To answer your question, there are a number of ways to get in full attacks: Mobile Fighter archetype gets Rapid attack at 11th level (gets him all but the highest attack), Brawler gets Stand Still as a bonus Feat at 13th level, Ranger can use his animal companion to trip or pin an opponent, Inquisitor can use coordinated charge teamwork feat. Anyone else would probably have to go mounted or get the stand still Feat (but I'm open to any suggestions).
You are not doing flurry of blows, you are TWFing. MoMS gives up flurry anyway. You only need two lvls of MoMS really, but 4 doesn't suck. Trust me until you can research it, then love it and rub it in people's faces!2hw fighter/ MoMS. Use a nodachi and unarmed strike as your two weapons and get x2 str with you nodachi, and 1.5 str (dragon style and dragon ferocity) with your unarmed strike. When you get enough iterations, pick up boar style and boar rend to do bleed dmg when you hit with 2 UAS' and take two weapon rend to just be silly with it. Use light armor with the brawling property to get an untyped +2 to hit and dmg, and an AoMF to kick it up even higher, and use weapon training to up your nodachi to hit and dmg and enchant that as you see fit. Then enter beast mode and laugh at all other TWFers who try to keep up with you. You want an 18 str and pump your dex after that, make sure you get a good con to stay alive. Your HP, saves, skills, skill selection, and dmg will be better than all other fighter builds, and you will have evasion... Have fun, and make people stare with their jaws dropped.No-Dachi is not a Monk weapon. so I could not use it with FoB - I could use one or the other, not both.
Also this build would have no way of guaranteeing a Full Attack (unless I missed something?) so after I have moved up to an opponent and made a standard attack, they could just take a 5' step backward and move away, which means I would have to do another move action and another standard attack - My superior number of attacks would never come into play.
How can you do TWF with a 2HW? Also Dragon Style increases your damage for unarmed attacks, which is not really what I want.
For pure DPR? Fighter all the way.
If you have a 20 point buy or better I recommend getting the whole Eldritch Heritage (orc) bloodline and the optimistic gambler trait.
Nothing does more damage.A Ranger can do it nearly as well, but has alot more out of combat stuff.
Pick Fighter if pure dpr is what you want (I prefer TWW or Brawler cause they also lockdown/debuff enemies, thereby protecting allies)
Pick Ranger for skills/healing/stealth will slightly less dpr.
Cavalier (bodyguard/stratagist) for Face and battle commander stuff with slightly less dpr.Pally is more circumstantial but is alot more tanky and can draw aggro with swift LOH and spells like CHALLENGE EVIL.
Thanks for the feedback. It was your TWF Fighter guide that made me look at Fighter again and made me ask which class is best, which started this thread.
Glad you liked it.
Your question has more than one answer.
Best DPR? Best Lockdown? DEFINITELY fighter if that is all you care about.
DPR 10/10. Out of combat uses? Varies between 1/10 to 5/10 depending on what you do with spare feats and traits.
Best Overall Contributer? I'd pick ranger.
DPR 8/10. Less dependant on a particular weapon. But scimitar/cestus is best choice.
Out of Combat uses? Heaps of useful class abilities. Better Stealth attacker than a rogue and extra actions per round via animal buddy. Can be dumb as and still have more SP than a fighter, doesn't need more than 14Dex allowing higher base STR. Erasing the fighter's weapon fcs/spec.
Safest TWF's? Paladin.
DPR? 7/8. Smite Damage is worth more than FE but FE comes up HEAPS more if you pick smart ones (Humans, Undead, Evil Outsiders being Paizo's most common across all cr's)
Smite is bursty but limited times a day.
Pally is great for newcomers who make silly tactical errors or wannabe tanks.
Swift LOH gives more HP than any other class. Nearly the best saves and some sweet spells. Comes with more baggage than other classes and will have no spare feats.
My personal favourite is a Fighter. All the feats really help. Currently using a bastard sword and armor spikes. I just took my first dip into Rogue as my fifth level and it is proving to be lots of fun to have sneak attack added into the mix.
The way you TWF with a two handed weapon is with kicks, headbutts, and knees. It's pretty cheesy but is allowable under RAW.
How about best mobile twf build? Does it exist?
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The way you TWF with a two handed weapon is with kicks, headbutts, and knees. It's pretty cheesy but is allowable under RAW.Oh, kicking, the "cheesiest" of tactics.
Hey, if you are not fighting unarmed like a boxer, then you are cheating, right?
If you are in a boxing match, yes. But the vast majority of combat in Pathfinder isn't a boxing match.
Did you just repeat exactly what bbt just said? Are you in fact a bbt clone?
Nvm. Close but no cigar.
How about best mobile twf build? Does it exist?
Two weapon pouncearian
That was my suspicion. Wakizashis?
Kukri, just seems cooler.
I hate what TWF with wakizashi has become almost as much as the dervish dancing magus... Kukri aren't far off, but at least there is some distance.
One could also consider tossing in Eldritch Heritage(Orc) in conjunction with the "Optimistic Gambler" trait for some extra burst.
I suppose, for many it's the bigger damage die of the "waki" that wins out over kukri. If one isn't trying to squeeze every last drop as it were, I'd say kukri was a fine choice.
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the best TWF in the game is a samurai, hands down. 2x wakazashi with the challenge ability you will never miss the bbeg.
the best mobile TWF int he game is a mobile fighter. you lose out on an attack but you can full attack after moving. and since you're a fighter and you gain the same bonuses as weapon training after you move 5 feet, you can match a fighter on hitting, minus gloves of dueling.
Far and away the best TWF build I've ever seen was a two level dip in MoMS for Snake Fang by 2nd level and then 18 levels of the Brawler Fighter archetype. High Dexterity + Light Brawling Armor + Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists + Close Combat added up to huge bonuses with unarmed strikes and between the attacks grants by TWF and all of the AoO's granted by Snake Fang, the character was a whirlwind of destruction.
Heaven help the spellcaster he got near, because he inflicted a -8 Concentration check penalty and he had both the feat Standstill and the class feature No Escape to keep them from getting away. Just a killer character to play.
As an aside, he also had stellar Perception, Sense Motive and Stealth scores, adding an unusual bit of versatility to traditional Fighter.
Consider these combo's to work in your build...
Half orc with the Orc Double Axe.
Half elf with Ancestral Arms for the two-bladed sword.You roll a d8 for damage for every attack.
that's right. Don't have the book in front of me but crit range would factor in.
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2hw fighter/ MoMS. Use a nodachi and unarmed strike as your two weapons and get x2 str with you nodachi, and 1.5 str (dragon style and dragon ferocity) with your unarmed strike. When you get enough iterations, pick up boar style and boar rend to do bleed dmg when you hit with 2 UAS' and take two weapon rend to just be silly with it. Use light armor with the brawling property to get an untyped +2 to hit and dmg, and an AoMF to kick it up even higher, and use weapon training to up your nodachi to hit and dmg and enchant that as you see fit. Then enter beast mode and laugh at all other TWFers who try to keep up with you. You want an 18 str and pump your dex after that, make sure you get a good con to stay alive. Your HP, saves, skills, skill selection, and dmg will be better than all other fighter builds, and you will have evasion... Have fun, and make people stare with their jaws dropped.
Welp unless anyone has a pretty serious rebuttal, I think Byrd just won this thread. Kudos sir, bloody kudos.
High Strength fighter for TWF sounds amazing, until you consider the point buy necessary to pull it off. Until I see Byrd's numbers, I'm not buying it, sorry.
High Strength fighter for TWF sounds amazing, until you consider the point buy necessary to pull it off. Until I see Byrd's numbers, I'm not buying it, sorry.
Challenge accepted. Here is a build assuming PFS standards and wbl. It's not supper impressive (unless you start adding dmg together and multiply it by your itterative attacks while TWFing), but it's well rounded and user friendly.
20 pt buy for a human is 16, 16, 13, 10, 12, 10. Buy down your int/ cha if you absolutely have to cheese it. Buy your con to 14 @ lvl 4 and buy a +2 str belt. Toss a point into dex @ lvl 8 and buy a +2 belt of physical perfection. Gloves of dueling, brawling armor and a +1 weapon have you doing 1d10 + 2 (weapon training) +2 (gloves of dueling) + 10 (x2 str) + 1 (enchantment) + 9 (power attack at lvl 12) with your nodachi that crits on an 18+; and 1d6 + 1 (weapon training) +2 (gloves of dueling) + 7 (1.5 str) +2 (brawling armor) + 6 (power attack at lvl 12) with your unarmed strike.
Then factor in weapon spec, boar rend, two weapon rend, and whatever AoMF you can afford... Then laugh at all the other TWFers as they stare with jaws dropped... Yadda, yadda... Etc, etc...
High Strength fighter for TWF sounds amazing, until you consider the point buy necessary to pull it off. Until I see Byrd's numbers, I'm not buying it, sorry.
I've been thinking about posting my updated Battlesnake build for a while and this thread may be the kick in the pants I needed. It should put all the questions regarding the best TWF to bed. I'll throw it up when I get back to the office or early this evening when I get home.
Anyone ever make 20 attacks in a round before?
Dervish of the Dawn is probably superior to the mobile fighter for a mobile TWF - same level 11 ability but get to keep weapon training.
I'd say they're equal overall - The Dervish of Dawn is more offensive while the mobile fighter more defensive. At 20th level I'd still take the mobile fighter - the ability to make a full attack with a standard action is incredibly good - but really who plays at 20th level.
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High Strength fighter for TWF sounds amazing, until you consider the point buy necessary to pull it off. Until I see Byrd's numbers, I'm not buying it, sorry.Challenge accepted. Here is a build assuming PFS standards and wbl. It's not supper impressive (unless you start adding dmg together and multiply it by your itterative attacks while TWFing), but it's well rounded and user friendly.
20 pt buy for a human is 16, 16, 13, 10, 12, 10. Buy down your int/ cha if you absolutely have to cheese it. Buy your con to 14 @ lvl 4 and buy a +2 str belt. Toss a point into dex @ lvl 8 and buy a +2 belt of physical perfection. Gloves of dueling, brawling armor and a +1 weapon have you doing 1d10 + 2 (weapon training) +2 (gloves of dueling) + 10 (x2 str) + 1 (enchantment) + 9 (power attack at lvl 12) with your nodachi that crits on an 18+; and 1d6 + 1 (weapon training) +2 (gloves of dueling) + 7 (1.5 str) +2 (brawling armor) + 6 (power attack at lvl 12) with your unarmed strike.
Then factor in weapon spec, boar rend, two weapon rend, and whatever AoMF you can afford... Then laugh at all the other TWFers as they stare with jaws dropped... Yadda, yadda... Etc, etc...
I currently have a Level 6 Weapon Master Fighter with a set of Dual Earthbreakers setting up with Thunder and Fang, TWF and the such. It is almost like yours in damage, doing 2d6+19 damage on each hit. The new FAQ ruling on Power Attack with a 2-H weapon in on hand helps it out.
19 Damage (1H/OH) = 9 Base (6 STR Mod * 1.5 Damage) + 1 Class (Weapon Training) + 2 Feat (Weapon Specialization) + 6 Feat (Power Attack) + 1 (+1 Weapon)
I have not aquired the Gloves of Dueling yet and was considering tossing Impact on them and drinking a Potion of Enlarge Person. 4d6+22 per hit at Level 6 seems like a nice thing.
And yes, the 7-stat Trifecta is in place, so yay Will Save....
Edit: Damocles Guile, there is a build using the way the mechanics of a Dual-Barreled pistol works with TWF, Rapid Shot, Alchemical Cartridges and the like, but that makes it instead of "OH YEAH! /Kool-Aid Man" to "There is no point in playing against your guy. ~GM"
I currently have a Level 6 Weapon Master Fighter with a set of Dual Earthbreakers setting up with Thunder and Fang, TWF and the such. It is almost like yours in damage, doing 2d6+19 damage on each hit. The new FAQ ruling on Power Attack with a 2-H weapon in on hand helps it out.
19 Damage (1H/OH) = 9 Base (6 STR Mod * 1.5 Damage) + 1 Class (Weapon Training) + 2 Feat (Weapon Specialization) + 6 Feat (Power Attack) + 1 (+1 Weapon)
I have not aquired the Gloves of Dueling yet and was considering tossing Impact on them and drinking a Potion of Enlarge Person. 4d6+22 per hit at Level 6 seems like a nice thing.
I'd be interested in seeing this build. A 22 Strength by 6th level seems right on the edge of doability. I always thought that Thunder and Fang required the use of an Earthbreaker and a Klar, but I suppose that's just the spirit of the rules rather than the letter? Even so I'm not entirely sure you could afford all that loot by 6th level...
Here you go.
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This is Specifically Ruled as Worded through a bunch of terms:
Emphasis mine. Use as is, not "Treated", so Strength bonuses apply as a 2-H Weapon:
Emphasis mine. Using such a weapon, an Earthbreaker, applies the 1.5 STR Bonus. There is no clause that would tread the Thunder and Fang Earth Breaker with 1x STR, like the Titan Mauler's Jotungrip:
Base 20 STR. So with the belt, I am at base +6 STR Mod (22 Strength), 1.5x it to +9 Damage
The new FAQ, boosts Power Attack Damage for 2-H weapons in one hand:
Yes.
So with that, the Damage for Power Attack is at +6 instead of +4:
19 Damage (1H/OH) = 9 (6 STR Mod * 1.5 Damage Mult) + 1 Class (Weapon Training) + 2 Feat (Weapon Specialization) + 6 Feat (Power Attack) + 1 (+1 Weapon)
I understand the money situation, but given time, I can hopefully get the Impact enchant, as well as the Gloves of Dueliing. Hoping at level 6 is a pipedream, but possibly at level 8, to which the Power Attack, Weapon Training, and Strength Ability Score will shoot up, to the point where it is +24 damage per hit.
One could also consider tossing in Eldritch Heritage(Orc) in conjunction with the "Optimistic Gambler" trait for some extra burst.
Actually did that build in the builds section of my fighter guide.
Little slower to get going till level 9.
After that feaking awesome.
I am considering adding the viking to the fighter guide.
You lost weapon training but Rage powers can make your fighter crazy awesome.
I've got a Halfling build that I quite like. Nice damage potential against Large enemies; for regular sized opponents, he'll be relying on them being subject to feint.
Halfling Weapon Master (Kukri) 4 / Bandit Knife Master 16
(Fleet of Foot, Low Blow, Underfoot)
(Backstabber & Big Game Hunter traits)
25 pt buy
Str 13 (+1 @ 4)
Dex 20 (all other level increases)
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 9
1 TWF, Big Game Hunter
2 Weapon Finesse
3 Risky Striker, Weapon Training 1
4 Power Attack
5 Combat Expertise, 1d8 SA
6 Weapon Training, Evasion
7 ITWF, 2d8 SA
8 CT: Two Weapon Feint, Ambush
9 Weapon Specialization, 3d8 SA
10 Minor Magic: Acid Orb
11 Arcane Strike, 4d8 SA
12 Major Magic: Vanish
13 Improved Two Weapon Feint, 5d8 SA
14 Hunter's Surprise
15 GTWF, 6d8 SA
16 Opportunist
17 Critical Focus, 7d8 SA
18 Fast Tumble
19 Blinding Crit, 8d8 SA
20 Hard to Fool
I wanted four levels of Fighter to maximize the effects of Risky Striker. Weapon Master means Weapon Training and access to Duellist Gloves without needing to delay Rogue an extra level.
I am considering adding the viking to the fighter guide.
The thing that I found interesting about the Viking is the level two move action demoralize.