Getting another favored weapon?


Advice


One of my players wants to try out the inquisitor class. He's interested in Desna, which fits well with the campaign ideas I have in mind. The only problem we have is Desna's favored weapon - the starknife. My player really wants to use a longsword (he's got this image in his head of what he thinks the character will be). We could go with Iomedae instead, or burn a feat for the martial weapon proficiency - the character is human, so there is an extra feat available. I could also just use DM fiat & allow him to have the longsword (how much game imbalance would that really be??)....

So now that I've got all that stream-of-consciousness babble out, does anyone have any other ideas/thoughts/suggestions for me? Thanks in advance!


There was trait that granted proficiency in specific inherited weapon being part of the character's background.

Another option is playing elf who gets proficiency as a part of racial abilities or half-elf and selecting alternate racial trait giving weapon proficiency in place of Skill Focus racial feat.


Unfortunately, someone else already has dibs on an elf character. It's a very small group, so I made a restriction that each race can only be represented once in the group, with the exception of humans (which probably won't happen anyway). My player didn't really want to be an elf anyway, I think. But thanks for the idea! Hopefully, more will follow....

I think I should give more info for this topic, but I have to go to work now, so I'll try to get it done later this afternoon....


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synjon wrote:

I could also just use DM fiat & allow him to have the longsword (how much game imbalance would that really be??)....

Homebrew Campaign? DM fiat the swap from the star knife to the long sword. This will not create a great imbalance at all.


its your duty this thread, i mena, if your charcter want a Longsword besides Star Knife, then change it!!

actualy the favored weapon system, must wouldbe beter than actualy is!!

Maybe a sort of favored grup of weapons as many domains the gods have!!

For example:

Pharasma: Death, Healing, Knowledge, Repose, Water
So, the dagger, plus a Scythe, Mace, Longsword and Hand Crossbow.

I realy don´t get the image in my mind of a entire army of clerics and inquisitors from pharasma charging in a valley against the hordes of undeads or demons, or necromancers...with a dagger in hand each of them...

Like in the movie Brave´s Heart, at the confronting battles, figure out how hard t´will be that war with DAGGERS!!!

To me, Realy hylarious


This is why all of the gods in my homebrew world have at least two favored weapons. Usually a melee and ranged option (but not always). But, as this isn't PFS and you are the GM, I'd just let him swap his favored weapon for the longsword.

Liberty's Edge

Drejk wrote:
There was trait that granted proficiency in specific inherited weapon being part of the character's background.

The trait is Heirloom Weapon.

Note that you can now make this weapon Masterwork with a spell (Masterwork Transformation IIRC), and thus get it enchanted later on. All RAW :-)


I'm also considering just giving each character one bonus feat (subject to approval of course), because there are only 3 players - I may/may not run support npc - haven't decided.

They are going to start with 25pt buy, max HP at 1st (considering max @ every level) & max starting funds for their respective classes. The other 2 characters look like they are going to be a half-elf rogue & an exotic-race barbarian (race will be based off of Ajani Goldmane from the video game- tribal lions from the savanna). If I play a support npc, it will be either a cleric or a wizard - either way, focus will be on party support.

But, good to know you guys don't think it affects the game too much, either.

Thanks again for the help!


judas 147 wrote:

its your duty this thread, i mena, if your charcter want a Longsword besides Star Knife, then change it!!

actualy the favored weapon system, must wouldbe beter than actualy is!!

Maybe a sort of favored grup of weapons as many domains the gods have!!

For example:

Pharasma: Death, Healing, Knowledge, Repose, Water
So, the dagger, plus a Scythe, Mace, Longsword and Hand Crossbow.

I realy don´t get the image in my mind of a entire army of clerics and inquisitors from pharasma charging in a valley against the hordes of undeads or demons, or necromancers...with a dagger in hand each of them...

Like in the movie Brave´s Heart, at the confronting battles, figure out how hard t´will be that war with DAGGERS!!!

To me, Realy hylarious

Yeah, I can see some of that, although I guess the proficiency with all simple weapons would come into play as well...


Weapon proficiencies are almost always not worth the feat and only flavor. You could give it for free and it wouldn't break any balance. You may as well to a martial class, I don't know why alchemist and inquisitors don't have martial weapon proficiency when they are expected to do some melee. He'll be in the front lines anyway right? May as well give him a weapon that helps him do his job.

The Exchange

Even if you don't have the sourcebook with the Heirloom trait in it, I agree that this is the easiest way to make the player happy. MWP: longsword is a waste of a feat, whereas it's about right for the power level of a trait. Heck, I may steal this for my own campaign and house-rule a trait like:

Weapon Hobby: You spent a great deal of your free time practicing with a weapon not typical of your class. Select one simple or martial weapon. You are proficient with this weapon.


this is why i was recommending to bring back weapon proficiencies from AD&D2E

i will drop it here:

weapon proficiencies:
this rule make some feats get off from the game. As an optional rule for this, the GM can allow the use of those feats (because they still cost a feat, so the players need to think which spend those traits.)

The weapon proficiency bonus and feat bonus can be taked multiple times, the bonuses do not stack neither, nor feat and prof bonus nor a prof with prof bonus.

Proficiencies gaining rate
Bab-------1st Level----1 every # Level
Full------ 3---------------- 3 level
Med------- 2---------------- 4 level
Low------- 1---------------- 6 level

Cost:
weapon prof------------ Cost
Proficiency------------ 1
Focus------------------ 2
Specialization (ftr only) 3

Qith the armors, put a prof on one armor, is like a weapon focus feat, that means, you need be proficient with that armor (one armor by prof, ej: Chain mail *prof, **prof or ***prof)

Other way for this, was to make favored class option for proficiencies, maybe 3 favored class bonus as 1 weapon proficiency

Sczarni

@Juda de Keiroth: There was in fact a certain race/class combo in the APG (can't remember which one) whose favored class bonus is to reduce the nonproficiency penalty of a certain weapon by 1 per level. When the penalty hits -0, you're treated as being proficient with it.


I've never really tried using traits before now, but after reading these comments, I went back & looked them over in more depth. I think I'm going to give them a try in lieu of the bonus feat I mentioned above.

Weapon Hobby: You spent a great deal of your free time practicing with a weapon not typical of your class. Select one simple or martial weapon. You are proficient with this weapon.
I like it - think I'll use it as well!

Good stuff, thanks!


Silent Saturn wrote:
@Juda de Keiroth: There was in fact a certain race/class combo in the APG (can't remember which one) whose favored class bonus is to reduce the nonproficiency penalty of a certain weapon by 1 per level. When the penalty hits -0, you're treated as being proficient with it.

oh really? i will check for this, did you remember the class?

by the way this rule can be universal, not just one class or another.
Another great idea could be change the prof from your current class
ej. Ranger proficient with light, medium armor, simple (default prof for all and can´t be changed) and martial weapons, Hand Crossbow, and Bastardsword (swapping the shields prof because my char will never use them, so, maybe let him use some themed for him at all)

Synjon wrote:

I've never really tried using traits before now, but after reading these comments, I went back & looked them over in more depth. I think I'm going to give them a try in lieu of the bonus feat I mentioned above.

Weapon Hobby: You spent a great deal of your free time practicing with a weapon not typical of your class. Select one simple or martial weapon. You are proficient with this weapon.
I like it - think I'll use it as well!

Good stuff, thanks!

Youre Welcome dude. Traits are some kind of extra flavor and mechanics for all your characters and be useful at all!!

dont be shy with


Juda de Kerioth wrote:
Silent Saturn wrote:
@Juda de Keiroth: There was in fact a certain race/class combo in the APG (can't remember which one) whose favored class bonus is to reduce the nonproficiency penalty of a certain weapon by 1 per level. When the penalty hits -0, you're treated as being proficient with it.
oh really? i will check for this, did you remember the class?

Hobgoblin Rogue. Possibly others as well.

Quote:
by the way this rule can be universal, not just one class or another.

Spending skill ranks to buy off penalty for lack of proficiency? It could work nicely for classes with more skill points or for characters who decide to not focus on skills.


Also, have the player thought about playing Tengu Inquisitor (assuming you would allow that race in the first place)? They get proficiency with anything sword-like and get Wisdom bonus.

Sczarni

I went back and checked-- it was Dwarf Oracle.

Think about that for a moment. Let it sink in.


-2 charisma Race + Oracle =?

Grand Lodge

The Shaonti Tattoo trait will give proficiency with Earth Breakers, Klars, and Shoanti Bolas. It is in the Varisia, Birthplace of Legends book, pg. 6.

The Weapon Style trait will give you proficiency with one Monk weapon. It is in the PFS Guide to Organized Play pg. 16.


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Instead of worshipping Desna, he could also worship Desna through one of Densa's divine servants. Use Desna's portfolio but make the favored weapon a longsword.

The two of you can work together to create this servant, allowing you to tie the character closer in with the story, if you'd like -- or at least give the player a chance to have fun adding to the world.


Quick update --

although final decisions still rest with me, the whole thing has become more of a collaborative effort (probably for the best). We've settled on one character per player, & I will run a support-style npc.

My wife is getting an elf magus, using the Dervish Dance feat/build idea from Walter's guide, using the ISWG. The oldest boy will be playing a halfling bard, focusing primarily on ranged attacks with his slingstaff & party buffs- he's also the party face. Our youngest son has a dwarf fighter to be the party tank. One of his traits is going to be Rich Parents - which will be used to purchase a breastplate & dwarven waraxe (both masterwork).

The final piece of the puzzle is my npc - pretty much leaning towards a human druid (suggested by a friend). *I thought it was pretty cool to use the four original races. Since he's a support npc, & partly for flavor, I'm thinking of making this character middle-aged (-1 all physical stats, +1 all mental stats). I don't envision him as much of a melee character at all, borrowing from Treantmonk's "Wild Mystic" druid idea - not sure about giving up the animal companion, though....

If I go with a more traditional druid, I have an idea to swap out the scimitar for a woodaxe or other basic martial-type weapon proficiency - I find it's easier if the pc's have different preferred weapons to avoid any issues. Also, the scimitar for a druid doesn't make much sense to me. He still won't be a strong melee combatant, but tougher than the middle-aged guy from above. When we get to it, his wildshapes will sometimes end up being combat-orientedas well.

Any thoughts/input/suggestions for the druid would be welcomed!

Silver Crusade

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Actually, I'd throw my vote toward "make the PCs more powerful" instead of "run a GMNPC."

A. You already have a job to do. Be the bad guys.
B. You run the risk of out-shining the PCs.


I wouldn't use a druid as a GMPC. They're both powerful and complicated and not great at support. I'd say cleric or healing patron witch or life oracle to get all the condition removers and not get drawn into doing too much. Maybe aid another with a longspear if you wind up doing cleric or oracle of evil eye spam as a witch.


Brad McDowell wrote:

Actually, I'd throw my vote toward "make the PCs more powerful" instead of "run a GMNPC."

A. You already have a job to do. Be the bad guys.
B. You run the risk of out-shining the PCs.

The party is already being created with 25pt buy, & they are getting max starting wealth - suggestions on how to make them more powerful without ruining game balance?

Also, we've used gmnpc's before - a lot of it is in how you create & present the character. And since everyone knows they're just there for support, it's no big deal that they don't get a lot of attention (who's going to complain on they're behalf?)...

Silver Crusade

The original reason you posted this thread...
I suggest extra free feats or traits.

And if you're set on an ever-present GMNPC, then I agree with Atarlost.


Atarlost wrote:
I wouldn't use a druid as a GMPC. They're both powerful and complicated and not great at support. I'd say cleric or healing patron witch or life oracle to get all the condition removers and not get drawn into doing too much. Maybe aid another with a longspear if you wind up doing cleric or oracle of evil eye spam as a witch.

I was originally going to use a cleric, but our friend suggested the druid in part due to our style & for something a little different. I'm strongly leaning towards the middle-aged druid - kind of a kooky, hermit type who decides to accompany the pc's. His combat abilities will be minimal, & most of his spells will be more battlefield control/buff spells.


Brad McDowell wrote:

The original reason you posted this thread...

I suggest extra free feats or traits.

And if you're set on an ever-present GMNPC, then I agree with Atarlost.

Great point - as the nature of this thread seems to be shifting, it seems I should start a new thread specifically for advice on a gm-npc support character.

Thanks to the conversations here,I've pretty much decided game-balance won't be seriously affected by swapping out one weapon proficiency for another similar one for the sake of flavor. At worst, a trait can be used to add a single weapon proficiency (a feat seems like overkill). Thanks, everyone!


hey Just point out the Inquisitor is the Only Class that can tell his God to take a Hike and still retain his powers....

It is very feasible that his Temple said this our weapon and he said No this is my Weapon... Now Shut it or you see how well I use it... (insert maniacal laugh here)


Hey, if you're going to insist on burning a feat for a weapon, you might as well go Bastard Sword. or, you could be an inquisitor of ragathiel.


I actually did look @ Ragathiel. After talking to my son, though, he really liked Desna - lots of story hooks there, what with emnity towards both Lamashtu & Ghlaunder.

Reecy wrote:
It is very feasible that his Temple said this our weapon and he said No this is my Weapon...

This idea has some merit, especially with Desna being the godddess of freedom & what-not.... again, I'm leaning towards a trait for proficiency in a single weapon that's either Simple or Martial & saving the feat requirement for the Exotic weapons (to help emphasize that they are EXOTIC for a reason).


something to keep in mind about clerics and favored weapons at least, from a story perspective, is that not all of them use it, and even more of them use other weapons in addition to the favored weapon. I'd assume most of the time clerics of warlike dieties would use them for combat and the like. Other less useful mass combat type weapons would be a little more conservatively used. Like the example of a horde of dagger wielding clerics charging undead? Those same clerics would more likely produce morningstars, using the daggers as backup weapons or possibly just for ceremonial purposes.

Asta
PSY


Juda de Kerioth wrote:

this is why i was recommending to bring back weapon proficiencies from AD&D2E

i will drop it here:

weapon proficiencies:
this rule make some feats get off from the game. As an optional rule for this, the GM can allow the use of those feats (because they still cost a feat, so the players need to think which spend those traits.)

The weapon proficiency bonus and feat bonus can be taked multiple times, the bonuses do not stack neither, nor feat and prof bonus nor a prof with prof bonus.

Proficiencies gaining rate
Bab-------1st Level----1 every # Level
Full------ 3---------------- 3 level
Med------- 2---------------- 4 level
Low------- 1---------------- 6 level

Cost:
weapon prof------------ Cost
Proficiency------------ 1
Focus------------------ 2
Specialization (ftr only) 3

Qith the armors, put a prof on one armor, is like a weapon focus feat, that means, you need be proficient with that armor (one armor by prof, ej: Chain mail *prof, **prof or ***prof)

Other way for this, was to make favored class option for proficiencies, maybe 3 favored class bonus as 1 weapon proficiency

I test this idea for a long time at my party, let me tell you what happens:

i gave to the clerics 4 proficiency points for the first deity they choose (if they choose to pray the whole phanteon, they just can take 4 proficiencies as well).

Clerics with flexible options, was a great idea and now its a house rule to stay at my place.

then i make a customisable chart of options for proficiencies:
all classes are proficient with simple weapons, after that, they can exchange their common proficiencies for one single prof.

I.E. Fighter Common Prof:
Simple, Martial* weapons, Shields* and Tower*, light*, medium*, and heavy* armor

i have 6 prof to trade, because my Fighter will fight with two blades, he dont want the tower, and shields and drop off those ones and choose bastard sword and sawthoot sabre.
Also, he doesn´t need the heavy armor prof and took Heavy Flail prof.
Now my fighter has proficiencies with simple, martial, bastard, sawthooth, dire flail weapons and light and medium armors.

and as always, once you make your choice, you can´t change.

at every X number i gave a proficiencies, ike in 2nd edition, so, at 3rd level my fighter can buy proficiencies (obvious he need to roll and train in some town or something) a new weapon.
1 martial weapon prof cost 1 proficiency
1 exotic weapon cost 3 proficiencies
light armor/shield cost 2
medium armor/shield cost 3
heavy armor/shield cost 4
Tower shield cost 5

But i disabled the armor/shield, weapon/exotic weapon proficiencies and Focus specialization progresion featsfeats.

The results: Its a not so complex house rule, every ona at the table enjoy the way that they can drop some (for them by char) uselsess prof. The proficiencies at X level, create a Wizard which was prof with katana (other wizards use the prof to add ligth armors)


If you're afraid of them being too low-powered being only three, consider using hero points. They are really great.

If you want even more, consider giving this to your PCs:

Heroic Stamina - You're a real hero! Every time you're dealt damage, two points per level is converted to non-lethal damage.

Catch your breath - By resting a minute, you heal all non-lethal damage you've been dealt.

This will not increase their power to deal with any single encounter by itself, but will let them last longer throughout the day without making individual encounters that much less deadly. Combined with 25pb and hero points they should be more durable than a 4 person party, but with lower offense.


Devo wrote:

Instead of worshipping Desna, he could also worship Desna through one of Densa's divine servants. Use Desna's portfolio but make the favored weapon a longsword.

The two of you can work together to create this servant, allowing you to tie the character closer in with the story, if you'd like -- or at least give the player a chance to have fun adding to the world.

Somehow I missed this post before - looks intriguing. My biggest question would be how you handle interfaith relations between the divine servant & agents of the main deity? ie, what happens when a priest of Desna orders him to do something because "my deity is your deity's boss"?

Sorry for the delayed response - I've been off the boards for a bit, & was browsing my old posts to refresh on ideas....


Wield a large starknife. Counts as a 1 handed weapon instead of light. There you go. Deals a d6 which is a bit better.

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