Simulacrum Spell: the perfect interrogation tool?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sczarni

So, I'm running a crime investigation style campaign at the moment, and it just occurred to me that maybe the simulacrum spell is the world's greatest interrogation tool...

Spoiler:
Quote:

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster's Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

So, if simulacrum creates an identical copy of a creature, with half the creature's skills, abilities, and qualities, does that mean the simulacrum knows everything -- or at least half of everything -- that the original creature knows?

If so, could an investigator create a simulacrum of a suspect, and then question it about everything the suspect did? And of course it would always answer truthfully, since it's under its creator's control.

And you don't even have to have physical access to the suspect to make the simulacrum; yo just need to be able to make an accurate ice sculpture of it, and then add some powdered rubies.

Obviously, this is a GM's discretion situation, but it seems like a very amusing way to exploit this spell. :)


It should work, but of of course the Law of Narrative Drama says that the questions you really want answers to will be ones that the simulacrum doesn't know...

I've got no problem using a seventh level spell for information gathering like this when fifth level spells like commune exist.

The Exchange

Good point, and one use for simulacrum that I've never seen. (I've seen them used to provide alibis, beam-spam various magical effects, act as stunt doubles for heads of state...)

The Exchange

It's an illusion, so no.

Being a 4th or 7th level spell doesn't make it special. It only does what it says.

Sczarni

GeneticDrift wrote:

It's an illusion, so no.

Being a 4th or 7th level spell doesn't make it special. It only does what it says.

I dunno...how does it have half the skill ranks in knowledge skills without knowing at least some of the same stuff the subject knows?

And if it doesn't know anything that the subject knows, how could a simulacrum ever be expected to successfully impersonate the subject? And I'm pretty sure that's one of the main purposes of the spell.


One thing to consider is not only is Simulacrum a seventh level spell (or fifth level, if you're a summoner - either way, relatively rare), but also it has a rather high cost to create (at 500g per hit dice of the target).

That means that while I'd rule that it is a "perfect" interrogation technique, it's an expensive and rare one that won't see all that much use, when there are so many other substantially less expensive ways to get pretty solidly reliable data. (This includes crafters as well, because they'd have to build the additional costs into their device and 50x500g/HD, presuming a tendency toward 20HD = 500,000 gold for each use of the ability (in addition to the normal crafting costs), at least if they really wanted a good multi-use device to use against foes that would otherwise tend to be resistant to it. That's... a lot of money.*

I'd say that lesser simulacrum (scroll down to the bottom) is more likely, as it is far more accessible (as a 4th lvl sorc/wiz spell), however it's downsides are significant: it's still costly (50g per hit dice), lasts only a short time (1 hour/lvl) and thus isn't as great a resource, and doesn't automatically work because the creature isn't under your control; although given that the copy is less potent than the original creature, it's likely more vulnerable to forced control mechanisms, and is more likely subject to your other interrogation techniques that the original might be more resistant to. This basically means it would be used only if they were relatively sure a subject knew something that they refused to say and they couldn't break (likely just as much for legal reasons as personal power). If it was still resistant, a few temporary negative levels could work, too.

Speaking of "legal reasons" reminds me: I would suspect that an area in which sim and lesser sim were at all known and accessible, would have substantial legal limitations under which such effects could be used, as very few would likely desire someone to go around creating "copies" of themselves for... who knows what purposes. Plus, if you can create a copy that you can control, you could force it to confess to all sorts of things, making it less likely to be a perfect truth-ferreting device in terms of a court of law.

* Caveat: my memory of crafting might be getting confused with older 3.5 stuff, but that's what I recall right now.

The Exchange

Trinite wrote:
GeneticDrift wrote:

It's an illusion, so no.

Being a 4th or 7th level spell doesn't make it special. It only does what it says.

I dunno...how does it have half the skill ranks in knowledge skills without knowing at least some of the same stuff the subject knows?

And if it doesn't know anything that the subject knows, how could a simulacrum ever be expected to successfully impersonate the subject? And I'm pretty sure that's one of the main purposes of the spell.

It is super easy to detect the fake, just a dc 20 sense motive or a perception vs disguise roll. It's more of a sex bot or decoy.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GeneticDrift wrote:


It is super easy to detect the fake, just a dc 20 sense motive or a perception vs disguise roll. It's more of a sex bot or decoy.

Which is why it is good it has other uses, such as that mentioned in the OP.

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