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This thread is for build advice, but it is very specific to new players within the PFS system. So I believe this thread does belong in the PFS general discussion.
This thread is a branch off from a previous discussion found here.
Some people feel the pregens are subpar to the point they aren’t even useful as training aids. I agree they aren’t great, but don’t know that I would go that far. Regardless, it isn’t something you can continue using.
When I go to PFS events, there is sometimes a new player at the table. I want to give them a hand, but don’t have the time to make everyone else wait while we go through a huge process of building a unique PC just for them. Also, if you try to describe everything, it invariably seems they want to start with the most complex or problem plagued possibilities.
So, I try to bring about 4 intro characters with me. While not optimal they are still perfectly playable. I stick with mostly simple or static feats, traits, or other options. Also CRB only so if they want to continue using it and only bought the one book they have everything they need. On the back of the sheet I have recommendations for what feats, skill, spells, equipment, or other options to pick for the first few levels.
What I usually bring is:
Human, 1HD and board, armored, fighter – this seems to be a common request from people that play ‘tanks’ in online games. Depending upon what I pick/recommend it isn’t at all complex.
Half-orc, THW, barbarian – slightly more complex with the raging and +1.5 str damage on the weapon. A few more skills to learn about. But not too bad. Shield vs. hp tends to be a wash for survivability at low levels.
Elf, archer, ranger – Some people are not comfortable with starting a character that is right off in-your-face melee when new to the game. This is a little safer than that. More complex with some of the class abilities and still more skills. But many of the ‘weird’ stuff like the animal companion and spells are put off for a few levels while they learn the system. Seems to work pretty well.
Dwarf, casting cleric – this seems to be one of the easiest and least squishy of casters to learn. Not a lot of weird class abilities other than channel energy. Don’t have to mess with a spellbook. If I have a few spells suggested and printed off, hopefully they won’t get overloaded on trying to learn a multitude of spells. If they don’t like a spell they don’t have to use it anymore.
Been considering also bringing a gnome sorcerer. But not sure about that. The small number of spells known helps them just learn a few. If I have a suggested learning list they hopefully won’t have many horrible choices they are stuck with forever. However, it is a very squishy class. If they decide to experiment on the spells they learn (usually seems to be based on the description and fluff) they can make some really problematical choices. Then they could feel gimped.
I am very clear:
“This is not me telling you what you can or can’t run. But I happen to have these fairly simple but viable characters on hand that they are free to use and keep if you want. The characters are kinda basic and easy to teach you what you need to get through a few scenarios. But if you would rather just use one of the pregens, then build something else between now and the next event, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. All of us here at the table will be glad to help you out either way.”
What I would like from this thread is some help with the builds and recommended choices for the first few levels. If you think other build concepts would be better, convince me. I don’t want 473+ possibilities, for the same reasons as above. I don’t have time to go over and explain all the possibilities right as the game is starting and they won’t understand what the functional difference is with most of them anyway.
PFS standard 20 point buy, (usually 16, 14, 14, 10, 10, 10), starting gold is only 150 gps, CRB only, 2 traits from the web enhancement and/or faction, grand lodge since that is the default (but they are free to change it), potion cure light wounds, vial acid (swarms), feats and traits with simple to explain and keep track of or static bonus. I will start with the basics of what I’ve been using so far (I don’t have the papers in front of me, but it was close to the following).
VonGustefsen
Human Fighter 1
N Medium Humanoid (human)
hp 16 (1d10+6)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +2
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats Dodge, Iron Will, Toughness +3
Traits Armor Expert, Observant (Perception)
Skill ranks: Craft (weapons) 1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (engineering) 1, Perception 1
Languages Common, Garuda
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Holy water, Hide armor, Heavy wooden shield, Dagger, Javelin, Light flail,
Backpack (9 @ 27 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (6 @ 3.16 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Grappling hook,
Rope, Signal whistle, Torch (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 4 GP, 4 CP
Suggestions for future
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
Use gold to buy breastplate and masterwork scimitar
Then buy masterwork fullplate
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them)
Arthunk
Half-Orc Barbarian 1
CG Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
hp 15 (1d12+3)
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Power Attack
Traits Reactionary, Suspicious
Skills ranks
Craft (stonemasonry) 1, Intimidate 1, Perception 1, Sense Motive +1
Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ fast movement +10
Gear Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Holy water, Hide armor, Dagger, Greatclub, Javelin,
Backpack (8 @ 26 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (8 @ 4.44 lbs), Chalk, Fishhook, Flint and steel,
Grappling hook, Rope, Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 13 GP, 2 SP, 7 CP
Suggestions for future
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
Use gold to buy masterwork breastplate and masterwork falchion
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them)
Gel-Thien
Elf Ranger 1
NG Medium Humanoid (elf)
hp 12 (1d10+2)
Special Attacks favored enemy (undead +2)
Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats Point Blank Shot
Traits Dangerously Curious, Indomitable Faith
Skill ranks: Handle Animal 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Perception 1, Profession (trapper) 1, Stealth 1, Survival 1, Use Magic Device 1
Languages Common, Elven
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Holy water, Hide armor, Dagger, Javelin (3), Scimitar,
Backpack (5 @ 12 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (8 @ 4.28 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Signal whistle,
Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 2 GP, 5 SP, 7 CP
Favored Enemy (Undead +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
Suggestions for future
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +2 str rating
Use gold to buy masterwork chainshirt and masterwork elven curved blade
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them)
Brother Murlorg
Male Dwarf Cleric 1
LN Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Defensive Abilities defensive training; Resist resistant touch (7/day)
Special Attacks hatred
Spell-Like Abilities Acid Dart (7/day), Resistant Touch (7/day)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Command (DC 16), Sanctuary (DC 15), Obscuring Mist
0 (at will) Guidance, Detect Magic, Stabilize
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 10
Feats Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Traits Deft Dodger, Observant (Perception)
Skill ranks
Knowledge (religion) 1, Perception 1, Profession (barrister) 1
Languages Common, Dwarven, Goblin
SQ aura, cleric channel positive energy 1d6 (3/day) (dc 10), domains (earth, protection), greed, hardy, slow and steady, spontaneous casting, stability, stonecunning +2
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Hide armor, Heavy wooden shield, Dagger, Sling, Sling bullets (10), Warhammer,
Backpack (7 @ 11 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (8 @ 4.72 lbs), Chalk, Fishhook, Flint and steel, Torag, Signal whistle,
Spell component pouch, Trail rations (2), Traveler's outfit, Waterskin, 19 GP, 8 SP, 9 CP
Diety Torag
Domains: Earth and Protection
Suggestions for future
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Use gold to buy breastplate and masterwork warhammer
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them)
Glisten Pelforth
Gnome Sorcerer 1
N Small Humanoid (gnome)
hp 9 (1d6+3)
Special Attacks hatred
Spell-Like Abilities Dancing Lights (1/day), Ghost Sound (1/day), Prestidigitation (1/day), Speak with Animals (1/day)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 1):
1 (4/day) Color Spray (DC 17), Shield
0 (at will) Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound (DC 16), Detect Magic, Ray of Frost
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18
Feats Eschew Materials, Spell Focus (Illusion)
Traits Magic is Life, Skeptic
Skill ranks: Craft (alchemy) 1, Spellcraft +1, Use Magic Device +1
Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ bloodlines (destined), illusion resistance, touch of destiny +1 (7/day)
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Holy water, Smokestick, Sunrod (2), Dagger,
Backpack (8 @ 5.5 lbs), Belt pouch (7 @ 3.84 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Signal whistle,
Spell component pouch, Trail rations (2), Waterskin, 7 GP, 1 SP, 9 CP
Suggestions for future
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them)
Edit: Just realized I seem to have misplaced the suggested lists of feats, skills, and spells. So feel free to offer up what you think I should have there.
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Here is a two page document that steps a new player through character creation using only the Core Rulebook and the free Traits download.
It's not much more than what is in Chapter 2 of the PFS Guide, but it does offer some quick advice for those in a hurry and lists page numbers for each topic.
It does not make use of any Additional Resources to keep things simple and give the player a chance to learn how to build a character with just the Core Rulebook first.
I recommend giving it to new players along with a copy of the Traits download and a blank PFS Character Sheet. A handout about the Factions or access to Chapter 4 in the PFS Guide would be useful too.
This document is primarily the work of myself (text) and VC Russell Akred (layout, art, and editing) along with extensive comments from other venture officers.
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Don Walker
Haven't seen that one before. Thanks, I will look at it and print off a copy to go along with the PC to a new player.
SCPRedMage,
If you look at the last line. I have included that in the past. I seem to have misplaced that document. If you have suggestions, let me know.
Caderyn
I understand what you are saying. My reasoning is along the lines of:
I hate having a brand new player sitting with nothing close to effective he can do. I've seen new players sitting at a level 1-2 scenario that has swarms, haunts, and/or magic item undead. That's why I always try to give them an acid, alchemist fire, and holy water.
I suppose I could put that in the suggestions for after the first adventure instead. Just really feel bad for them when half of the time they are just sitting there on their first game. I will look at re-buying this evening.
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I think your characters are missing a bit of the flavor in their roles in order to have more well rounded equipment choices, which while nice will tend to put some people off.
I disagree. Especially in PFS, where you cannot negotiate cool stuff with the DM, it is important to realize and accept that you are not going to get your intended playstyle or even possibly flavor at 1st level. I think that in general, being able to actually get started with the meat of your character after a few PP as opposed to stretching and straining to get everything right off the bat is completely reasonable, even more so now that a modicum of system mastery is required to play the newest scenarios effectively.
The choices made for some of these starter characters are a great way to start conversation about good build choices, which is more valuable even than a character base to a new player who intends to continue playing.
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I will sooner dump all the alchemical items than the po of cure light.
I strongly believe every character should have at least 1 cure potion at all times and a wand of cure light (or infernal healing but this is CRB only) as soon as possible.
Most tables that I have been at do not have a positive energy cleric/oracle at all. However, it is fairly common to have a ranger or inquisitor that can use the wand. Many people (myself included) get irritated at feeling the need to use my wand because someone else is to stingy to ever buy any consumables.
Granted, I don't have any problem burning to help a new guy. But I would much rather show how they can help take care of themselves right from the start so they don't learn inconsiderate behavior.
I think I will buy them a little better gear. But leave enough cash that they can purchase at least 1 alchemical attack based on the scenario introduction. I will include a clear note to listen and then usually pick one of them. (Except for the sorc who isn't buying much other gear.)
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Skills for the future
I usually recommend that players put at least 1 point in all the class skills and perception first. Then increase perception, usually at least one 'social' skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), and the ones that the player has been finding useful (or would have been useful with a little more skill.) I mention that knowledge skills are often useful to know more about the strengths and weaknesses of certain opponents.
Feats for the future
?
Purchases for the future
?
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I would not put any ranks into a skill just to get a day job roll or to support background flavor. At least not at level 1 for new players. Day jobs are incredibly over rated. The skill pont is much better served in Acrobatics, Climb, Heal, or Swim.
The Elf Ranger really needs a short bow not javelins to start. If you aren't concerned with giving the player an "iconic" build, go with human for the extra feat and take point blank and precise shot.
Also, why on Golarion do you give the Ranger Use Magic Device? They can already operate a CLW wand which is the primary reason to take that skill. Give the tank and barbarian UMD if anyone.
I like that you are doing this for new players, but don't discount the pregen Iconics Paizo has created. Especially with the NPC Codex now. They may not be the most optomized characters, but nothing beats them for drawing the player into the world of Golarion. And with plastic painted minis available for each Iconic you should see a player's eyes light up when you pull out the matching mini for the pregen they've selected.
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I personally don't usually put points in a for day job skill. However, every new person seems to want it so I was always putting it in for them anyway.
I gave the ranger javelins because until he can get the comp bow they will do more damage. But others have also suggested not to do that so it will be changing this evening.
I made him an elf just because I am trying to hit several different races in the builds. Some people have no concept of the classes but know they want an elf or a dwarf to play.
I gave the ranger UMD because he has the most skill points and could afford it. Also, I see alot of rangers at my local doing the same thing and using arcane wands for some buffs. I didn't feel the others had the skill points to spare.
The pregens are ok in my opinion (though many feel they are horrible). But the player can't keep going with them. Several new players I have talked to want their own character right from the begining. I also have the pregens printed and hand them out to anyone that wants one.
From above "... But if you would rather just use one of the pregens, then build something else between now and the next event, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. All of us here at the table will be glad to help you out either way..."
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I think the following is pretty close to the future suggestions sheet I was handing out with the tank-ish fighter. I'm still working on the lists for the others.
Future Suggestions for the Tank-ish fighter
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy breastplate and masterwork scimitar.
Then buy masterwork full plate.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic full plate that is either adamantine (absorbs some damage) or mithral (lets you move a bit faster)
Magic 1 handed melee weapon (short spear, long sword, scimitar, light flail, etc…)
Cloak of resistance
Belt to improve physical stats
2 shield focus - your shield will give you another +1 on AC
3 fleet - gives +5' on your speed to help make up for the heavy armor
4 mobility - gives a +4 on AC vs those AoO you draw so others can move
5 improved iron will - reroll a failed will save is great
6 combat reflexes - can increase your defenses even more, but mostly for next level
7 stand still - stop others getting past you to beat on the squishies
8 greater shield focus - even more benifit from your shield
9 blind-fight - spell casters could be putting you in deeper darkness by now
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
Seem reasonable?
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I'm really kind of disappointed in some of the comments here. Why can't people build a character with a background they enjoy, put skill points where they want, and come have fun? Isn't that what this is all about. People should play what they enjoy and not worry about having the "perfect" build. none of my characters are perfect in any way, shape or form. But they are still effective and I still like playing them.
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Your efforts to create starter characters for new players is to be commended.
I'd like to caution against encouraging someone to play one of these as their very first characters over a pre-gen, though.
I've had the opportunity to game with a lot of first-time gamers lately who have all stepped into pre-gens, and I think it's actually an awesome part of the "shared social experience" of PFS.
I've seen multiple folks play Amiri, and then later see someone else play Amiri, and the kind of "connection" those two players make is priceless as they share their own Amiri stories.
What would be kind of amazing to see is a "2nd adventure" Amiri (or other iconic), so that when someone returns for a second session, if they aren't quite ready to play their own PC yet, they have a slightly advanced iconic that gives them an example of the progression.
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Under the retraining rules this is certainly legal and a neat idea. You could print some suggestions for their 2nd and 3rd games and maybe even some advice on how to level the character with a caution that once it hits level 2 they have to decide to either stick with the pregen stats or create their own PC for good.
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Hmm... Part of the reason I started this was because many do not want to play the pregen when they don't get to keep it.
I never really considered that you could just make a PC with essentially the same stats as the pregen. Then we could give them the list of feats, skills and equipmment to duplicate the pregen at all levels.
That is certainly doable. Not sure how it would work out though. Most people seem to feel the pregens are very substandard.
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I'm really kind of disappointed in some of the comments here. Why can't people build a character with a background they enjoy, put skill points where they want, and come have fun? Isn't that what this is all about. People should play what they enjoy and not worry about having the "perfect" build. none of my characters are perfect in any way, shape or form. But they are still effective and I still like playing them.
I like to build a very powerful class idea and then develope a story aroudn that. I have very deep characters with story and roleplay. I enjoy my characters a great deal. I am sorry my style of play dispapoints you, but all enjoy different things.
Also it is insulting to the people that you meantion when you post like that.
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Here is the updated tank.
VonGustefsen
Human Fighter 1
N Medium Humanoid (human)
hp 16 (1d10+6)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +2
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats Dodge, Iron Will, Toughness +3
Traits Armor Expert, Observant (Perception)
Skill ranks: Craft (weapons) 1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (engineering) 1, Perception 1
Languages Common, Garuda
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Scale mail, Heavy wooden shield, Dagger, Javelin, Light flail,
Backpack (10 @ 16 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (2 @ 0.28 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Torch (3),
Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 2 PP, 5 GP, 3 SP, 4 CP
NOTE: Listen to intro information if graveyards or haunted churches are mentioned, buy a vial of holy water (25 gp each) before heading out. Otherwise buy 1 alchemist fire (20 gp each) or 2 acid (10 gp each)
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy breastplate and masterwork scimitar.
Then buy masterwork full plate.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic full plate that is either adamantine (absorbs some damage) or mithral (lets you move a bit faster)
Magic 1 handed melee weapon (short spear, long sword, scimitar, light flail, etc…)
Cloak of resistance
Belt to improve physical stats
2 shield focus - your shield will give you another +1 on AC
3 fleet - gives +5' on your speed to help make up for the heavy armor
4 mobility - gives a +4 on AC vs those AoO you draw so others can move
5 improved iron will - reroll a failed will save is great
6 combat reflexes - can increase your defenses even more, but mostly for next level
7 stand still - stop others getting past you to beat on the squishies
8 greater shield focus - even more benifit from your shield
9 blind-fight - spell casters could be putting you in deeper darkness by now
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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I would avvoid the handle animal and intimidate the penalty makes it not worthwhile. Honestly I would avoid the skills you are not good in, Considering you get 4 skills a level you would be better off reinforcing the skills you need and already good in VS spreading yourself thin in areas to have a marginal chance of success. Remember you have a team. If you spread yourself thin in areas other do not need you for then you are weaker in the skills they do need you for.
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Here is the updated striker
Arthunk
Half-Orc Barbarian 1
CG Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
hp 15 (1d12+3)
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Power Attack
Traits Reactionary, Suspicious
Skills ranks
Craft (stonemasonry) 1, Intimidate 1, Perception 1, Sense Motive +1
Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ fast movement +10
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Hide armor, Dagger, Greatclub, Javelin,
Backpack (8 @ 26 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (5 @ 2.54 lbs), Chalk, Fishhook, Flint and steel,
Grappling hook, Rope, Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 68 GP, 2 SP, 7 CP
NOTE: Listen to intro information if graveyards or haunted churches are mentioned, buy a couple vial of holy water (25 gp each) before heading out. Otherwise buy 2 alchemist fire (20 gp each) and 2 acid (10 gp each)
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy masterwork breastplate (or masterwork chain shirt if you want to move faster) and masterwork falchion.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic mithral breastplate or adamantine chain shirt (other choices can work)
Magic adamantine two-handed melee weapon (great axe, falchion, etc…)
Cloak of resistance
Belt to improve physical stats
2 no escape rage power - keeps enemys from getting away easily
3 cleave - gives you a second attack when the first succeeds
4 knockback rage power - raging bullrush
5 improved sunder - destroy opponents equipment
6 superstion rage power - more resistant to spells
7 greater sunder - destroy equipment and foe OR extra rage - if you find yourself running out of rage before the day is over
8 scent rage power - find invisible foes
9 critical focus (whatever weapon you use) - greater chance for critical hits
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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Here is the updated archer
Gel-Thien
Elf Ranger 1
NG Medium Humanoid (elf)
hp 12 (1d10+2)
Special Attacks favored enemy (undead +2)
Str 14, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Feats Point Blank Shot
Traits Dangerously Curious, Indomitable Faith
Skill ranks: Handle Animal 1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Perception 1, Profession (trapper) 1, Stealth 1, Survival 1, Use Magic Device 1
Languages Common, Elven
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Studded leather armor, Arrows (20), Dagger, Light flail, Shortbow,
Backpack (9 @ 15 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (5 @ 1.68 lbs), Chalk, Fishhook, Flint and steel, Signal whistle,
Torch (3), Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 26 GP, 4 SP, 4 CP
Favored Enemy (Undead +2) (Ex) +2 to rolls vs Favored Enemy (Undead).
NOTE: Listen to intro information if graveyards or haunted churches are mentioned, buy a vial of holy water (25 gp each) before heading out. Otherwise buy an alchemist fire (20 gp each) or 2 acid (10 gp each)
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +2 str rating
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy masterwork chain shirt and masterwork elven curved blade.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic mithral chain shirt
Magic composite long bow
Cloak of resistance
Belt to improve physical stats
2 precise shot - can shoot into melee effectively
3 rapid shot - additional attack
5 deadly aim - trade accuracy for damage
6 improved precise shot - ignore cover
7 many shot - even more arrow in the air
9 shot on the run - shoot while moving
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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Here is the updated Cleric
Brother Murlorg
Male Dwarf Cleric 1
LN Medium Humanoid (dwarf)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Defensive Abilities defensive training; Resist resistant touch (7/day)
Special Attacks hatred
Spell-Like Abilities Acid Dart (7/day), Resistant Touch (7/day)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Command (DC 16), Sanctuary (DC 15), Obscuring Mist
0 (at will) Guidance, Detect Magic, Stabilize
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 10
Feats Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Traits Deft Dodger, Observant (Perception)
Skill ranks
Knowledge (religion) 1, Perception 1, Profession (barrister) 1
Languages Common, Dwarven, Goblin
SQ aura, cleric channel positive energy 1d6 (3/day) (dc 10), domains (earth, protection), greed, hardy, slow and steady, spontaneous casting, stability, stonecunning +2
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Scale mail, Heavy wooden shield, Dagger, Sling, Sling bullets (10), Warhammer,
Backpack (8 @ 12 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (7 @ 3.32 lbs), Chalk, Fishhook, Flint and steel, Holy Symbol of Torag,
Signal whistle, Spell component pouch, Trail rations (3), Traveler's outfit, Waterskin, 4 GP, 3 SP, 9 CP
Diety Torag
Domains: Earth and Protection
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy masterwork breastplate and masterwork warhammer.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic breastplate (maybe adamantine or mithral)
Magic adamantine warhammer
Cloak of resistance
Headband to improve mental stats
3 reach spell - greater range for you spells
5 greater spell focus enchantment - increase save DC
7 spell penetration - better chance to beat spell resistance
9 greater spell penetration - even better chance to beat spell resistance
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Appraise (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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Here is the updated Sorcerer
Glisten Pelforth
Gnome Sorcerer 1
N Small Humanoid (gnome)
hp 9 (1d6+3)
Special Attacks hatred
Spell-Like Abilities Dancing Lights (1/day), Ghost Sound (1/day), Prestidigitation (1/day), Speak with Animals (1/day)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 1):
1 (4/day) Color Spray (DC 17), Shield
0 (at will) Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound (DC 16), Detect Magic, Ray of Frost
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18
Feats Eschew Materials, Spell Focus (Illusion)
Traits Magic is Life, Skeptic
Skill ranks: Craft (alchemy) 1, Spellcraft +1, Use Magic Device +1
Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ bloodlines (destined), illusion resistance, touch of destiny +1 (7/day)
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Acid, Alchemist's fire, Holy water, Smokestick, Sunrod (2), Dagger,
Backpack (8 @ 5.5 lbs), Belt pouch (7 @ 3.84 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Signal whistle,
Spell component pouch, Trail rations (2), Waterskin, 7 GP, 1 SP, 9 CP
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Bracers of Defense
Cloak of resistance
Headband to improve mental stats
3 greater spell focus illusion - increase save DC
5 extend spell - make spells last longer
7 bloodline feat lightening reflexes - avoid some spells
7 spell penetration - better chance to beat spell resistance
9 greater spell penetration - even better chance to beat spell resistance
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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Need some help with this section
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For the fighter
The feat fleet says ... You lose the benefits of this feat if you carry a medium or heavy load.
Notice you are restricted to light or no armor, making it useless for reducing the penalties for medium armor I would move blind fight up to level 3 to replace this feat.
Carploa! I did not remember that. I can move blind-fight up. Recommendation for a replacement?
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I would avvoid the handle animal and intimidate the penalty makes it not worthwhile. Honestly I would avoid the skills you are not good in, Considering you get 4 skills a level you would be better off reinforcing the skills you need and already good in VS spreading yourself thin in areas to have a marginal chance of success. Remember you have a team. If you spread yourself thin in areas other do not need you for then you are weaker in the skills they do need you for.
I am attempting to encourage spreading the skills out a bit in the beginning so that they try some different things. I don't believe losing just a few points to some non-optimal skills early on will make that big a deal in the long run. Besides, if the player decides he likes handle animal for example he may keep putting points into it. Eventually the PC will be pretty decent at it anyway even with a -1 from low charisma.
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Level 1 classes I have for people that do not like vanilla fight, vanilla sorcerer, vanilla cleric, or vanilla whatever. I generally wirte them up on the spot because people walk away with the ones I make.
Blaster Sorcerer
st 7
co 11
dx 12
wi 12
in 12
ch 20
Feats spell focus evocation, spell specialization burning hands
Traits gifted adept burning hands, whatever gives +1 will save.
Skills UMD, bluff diplo all very good
4d4+8 burning hands average 18 damage DC17 for half
Xena fighter idea of Dilvias
Xena, Warrior Princess option:
Human Fighter 1
Str 16, Dex 16 (14+2), Con 12, Int 12, wis 12, cha 9
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw
Traits: Vagabond Child (Sleight of Hand), that trait that gives fighters +1 ac
Skills: Climb, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Intimidate
Equipment: Chakram (x10), Longsword, Heavy Wooden Shield, Chain Shirt
In combat, throw the chakram as much as you can (+5 to hit, 1d8+4 dam within 30', same to hit and damage as a str 18 longsword wielder), and when you have to melee, pull out the sword anyway. Your AC is 20, and you still have a 30' move.
Out of combat, you have Sleight of hand for filching items, Intimidate for social siuations, Survival to handle being outdoors or tracking, and Climb to get over obstacles.
Simple, easy to understand concept for someone new to pathfinder that is different than your regular two hander.
Channel control cleric
Human cleric LN
st 7
co 12
dx 10
wi 14
in 10
ch 20
Feats
Selective channel
command undead(or improved channel)
traits
one of the 2 that raise channel dc
anything else
Alternate channel envy
DC 17(19) half of 1d6 damage. Must spend their next standard action stealing from adjecent enemy. If they do nto have improved steal that provokes. So you take their turn and give them a black eye for it.
You get armor, grab some back up spells to do whatever.
Great social skills
Wizard summoner
human conj wizard forbiden necro and whatever else
st 7
co 16
dx 7
wi 14
in 20
ch 7
Feats
spell focus free with wiz
ACADAMAE GRADUATE summon as a standard instead of a full round action make a fort save 15+ spell level or get fatigued
Spell tatto conj(spell spec you could use too if you want to abuse the rebuild rule)
Teleportation school
traits I am not sure reactionary and +1 fort save
Summon dogs or eagles every turn from 30 feet away and have them rush anout 40+ feet to attack your enemies so you do nto have to be near. They last 3 turns(4 with spell spec).
Teleport 5 as a swift action to anyplace you can see(through doors/windows/cracks.)
Crazy knowledge skills.
There is also a helpfull halfling build I stole the idea from Arizhel, but people are usually wan to be the center of attention.
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Those aren't bad builds.
But some of each is not CRB.
Spell Specialization, Chakram, Alternate Channel Envy, Acadame Graduate, Spell Tatoo
I'm trying to keep mine all CRB since a new player is likely to only get that book at first.
Also, (other than Xena) each seems to be rather complicated for a beginner. Not impossible, but more learning for their first PC.
Crossblooded and evocation (which many think you have to be a real expert to do well)
Channeling, alternate channeling, and casting all together
Wizard spell book and summoning
I'm trying for simple concepts so they don't have to learn as much or make as many choices for the first PC.
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Version 3 of the tank boy.
VonGustefsen
Human Fighter 1
N Medium Humanoid (human)
hp 16 (1d10+6)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +2
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Feats Dodge, Iron Will, Toughness +3
Traits Armor Expert, Observant (Perception)
Skill ranks: Craft (weapons) 1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (engineering) 1, Perception 1
Languages Common, Garuda
Gear: Potion of cure light wounds, Scale mail, Heavy wooden shield, Dagger, Javelin, Light flail,
Backpack (10 @ 16 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (2 @ 0.28 lbs), Chalk, Flint and steel, Torch (3),
Trail rations (3), Waterskin, Whetstone, 2 PP, 5 GP, 3 SP, 4 CP
NOTE: Listen to intro information if graveyards or haunted churches are mentioned, buy a vial of holy water (25 gp each) before heading out. Otherwise buy 1 alchemist fire (20 gp each) or 2 acid (10 gp each)
First 2 prestige points use for a wand of cure light wounds
Second 2 prestige points use for mw comp long bow with +3 str rating
After that, I would save prestige points in case you need a raise dead cast.
Use gold to buy breastplate and masterwork scimitar.
Then buy masterwork full plate.
Replace any consumables you use (maybe buy more of them).
Eventually you are wanting to own:
Magic full plate {expensive, but may want to consider adamantine (absorbs some damage) or mithral (lets you move a bit faster)}
Magic 1 handed melee weapon (short spear, long sword, scimitar, light flail, etc…) probably want to consider adamantine
Cloak of resistance
Belt to improve physical stats
2 shield focus - your shield will give you another +1 on AC
3 blind-fight - spell casters could be putting you in deeper darkness by now
4 mobility - gives a +4 on AC vs those AoO you draw so others can move
5 improved iron will - reroll a failed will save is great
6 combat reflexes - can increase your defenses even more, but mostly for next level
7 stand still - stop others getting past you to beat on the squishies
8 power attack - to get past damage reduction
9 greater shield focus - even more benifit from your shield
Knowledge skills can help with identifying opponent capabilities and weaknesses.
..Arcana – constructs, dragons, and magical beasts
..Dungeoneering – aberrations and oozes
..Nature – animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
..Planes – outsiders
..Religion – undead
Acrobatics, climb, and swim can help you moving around.
Linguistics can help you communicate with others or read their documents.
Put at least 1 point into perception and each class skills (except craft and profession the 1 point is plenty for now).
Your class skills are Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Then keep perception high, raise a social skill (diplomacy, intimidate, bluff, or sense motive), then put the rest into whatever skills have seemed useful to you so far (or might have been useful if it had been a bit higher).
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Sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intent.
I've never seen a wizard that will only ever use one spell for a significant portion of their career. So they will need to learn lots of spells. What you can put in a spell book. How you put it in a spell book. Why this spell operates at a different caster level than the other spells. Etc... I don't think I've ever met anyone that would say wizard is a simple class.
The cleric will need to learn all the other cleric stuff such as the spells and domain powers. At least the basics of combat. Channeling offensive use. Channeling healing use. Variant channeling rules.
I was intentionally picking the feats and abilities that wouldn't require them to learn a large number of things at the same time on their very first game.
If after they have played a few games and have some more of the rules down they want some help with some of the more complicated concepts, I will be more than happy to help them.
Yes, I agree with showing them that there are other things out there. But I'm not going to give the a character and say, "Now you have to go buy 2 more $50 books in order to play it."
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Always be looking at multi-classing.Not sure exactly what you mean here. But I think multiclassing is a poor choice for someone brand new to the game.
I don't think people understand what you are trying to do here.
I think you've got a great perspective on it.
Give them a Paizo pregen if they'll accept it.
If not, help them build their own PC using the baseline PCs you have developed.
If not, then they will have to wait to actually sit down to play until they have built their own uber PC (which could take some time - and on their own, because you have a game to run).
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@My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine:
I also want to commend you for attempting to put this together. The last thing I want a brand new player to do is get frustrated because they don't know how their character works. I am all for getting them "hooked" during their first gaming session. There will be time later on to work out the details.
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@My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine:
I also want to commend you for attempting to put this together. The last thing I want a brand new player to do is get frustrated because they don't know how their character works. I am all for getting them "hooked" during their first gaming session. There will be time later on to work out the details.
+1.
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Anyone have any suggestions for easy to use/learn yet still effective CRB spells for the sorc to learn at each level.
It is currently a gnome of the destined bloodline with spell focus illusion.
That was to take advantage of the gnomes abilities with illusions, but I have been thinking that might not be the best choice. Illusions can be complicated. But most GM's also give a lot of leeway to a new guy.
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Lavode,
if you are talking about 1st level characters, then there isn't much that they can do that makes illusions difficult to adjudicate, unlike some of the higher level spells.
A great spell for a 1st level character would be Color Spray. It really is an "I win" spell at first level.
That being said, my first experience with it as a PC was not all that effective. My party was ambushed by bandits... with four of them surrounding 2 of my party mates. After confirming that the players were ok with it, I Color Sprayed all 6 of them (they were in PERFECT formation for it). With the DC16 will save, I'd have expected pretty much all of them to have fallen... but two made their saves (even though they actually had negative WILL saves), and both of my compatriots left for nighty-night land.
I was then flanked by the remaining two, and put down with extreme prejudice. Good thing I had both Toughness and a Toad familiar... 14hp for a 1st level wizard is a Good Thing.
That all being said, I don't really see a problem with your plan. Especially if you are talking about 1st level, only.
BTW - I would go with Mage Armor over Shield... the 1hr/level duration trumps the 1min/level.
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I picked shield because you are likely to need to cast it more than once a day. Many people recommend a sorc only learn spells (at least low level spells) that you are going to cast many times. You can buy a scroll or wand of mage armor that will give it to you for an hour. Not sure I entirely agree with that, but it is not bad advice. So for a beginner I went with that.
He already knows color spray.
What I am looking to give is a list of recommended spells to learn each level. Just like I did with the feats. This is intended to help a new player that doesn't know what spells to pick and then may be stuck with for a long time.
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level 1
grease works great.
magic missile is a great go to since it scales ok and the damage hit almost everything
Snowball is overpowered
silent image
level 2
glitterdust and or pyrotechnics
create pit
summon monster 2(do not pick summon monster 1)
darkness if you have dark vision gnome
invisibility
stone call
those are your first two levels. by the time you get 3rd level spells you can see what you like.
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First - thank you. Nicely done.
I have no real problems with the specifics of your builds, though I think that the Sorcerer should have Grease and Magic Missile.
What I recommend you do is present two customization options for each character.
For the Sorcerer, this is easy - two different pairs of spells to choose from.
For the Dwarf Cleric, this is slightly more complex: Give a choice of two feats (Selective Channel, Spell Focus: Enchantment)
For the Fighter, this is "I picked two feats, here are two choices you can make for the third."
For the Elf Ranger, your customization choices are going to be in skills, which are boring. I can't think of any right off the top of my head.
For the Half-Orc Barbarian, same story.
The trick I've found is to hand out viable pre-generated characters that have one or two customization options (and only one or two...) for new players to grab, understand fast, and "make their own."
You've done a really good job on this. Thank you.
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I am not set on it or anything. But my reasoning for:
Not picking Magic Missile is the effect isn't that much different at 1st level than the Ray of Frost. Plus the Ray of Frost gives him an infinite thing he can do in most fights that is useful for a level or three and it also introduces a new mechanic (ranged touch attack) in fairly simple to learn manner.
For Color Spray over Grease was that he's a gnome and people expect illusions, already had spell focus illusion (that is as much me lazy as anything), people seem to understand the concept of a blast of light that stuns/dazzles someone, the mechanics are a bit easier to understand (single save vs 1 effect) than the couple of options to use grease and the lasting effects it might or might not have for allies as well as opponents.
Personally I also like Grease better than Color Spray. But I was trying to keep this to very simple things that are still useful. (Yes, I know that is an argument to put Magic Missile back in the list.) Plus the player will have 3 scenarios to decide he likes a different spell and put in in the list before it is set in stone.
Actually, none of the complete beginners has chosen a caster. So it hasn't come up. They have always chosen the archer ranger or tank fighter.
Hmm...
The 2 only choices is reasonable. The only problem is I have these as a ready to go Hero Labs printout. There isn't real easy way to do that without doubling the number of characters I'm bringing to every event. Which while not impossible, is already getting to be kind of a pain with all my other crap. I suppose if I went back to just writing them up by hand, it is fairly easy to leave something blank until the last minute. I will think on it.
I started this topic (way back when) after the 3rd occasion that I just didn't have the time to help a player make a character as the PFS event was starting.
Many people don't like the pregens and tell all the new players how horrible the pregens are. (I don't think they are that bad, but they certainly aren't great.) Plus some of them are still fairly complex (druid immediately jumps to mind with the animal companion complexity).
But I've never met the new player more than a few minutes before the start of the game. And especially if I'm the GM, I'm getting ready to be GM so I'm just too busy to explain the game, character creation, and build a unique character for them.
So I wanted to stick with CRB both to keep it simple and because a new player is probably only going to buy that one book until he/she decides to really commit to the game.
I tried to make a few builds that demonstrate several different types of things but don't get into the really difficult/complex corner cases.
So I didn't make a reach weapon trip and disarm battle field controlling lorewarden build.
I also gave some basic suggestions for skills/feats/spells to pick over the next levels.
The builds are certainly not optimal. But I believe they are playable even in the high PFS levels (I would welcome them at my table anyway), enjoyable (they have the standard types of things many people enjoy doing), and instructive (they have many of the basic things that a player needs to learn).
They probably aren't perfect and I am always open to suggestions. They seem to have been successful. I know one player in our area is still using the ranger at 5th level and is having a blast.