Weird question concerning Magi


Rules Questions


A Skirnir Magus can, at level 8, use Spell Combat while wielding a shield, though they lose the AC bonus to shield provides.

A character with the Thunder and Fang feat can wield (as a one-handed weapon) an earth breaker, and a klar (a type of shield), and attack with both using two-weapon fighting while keeping the klar's AC bonus.

Can a Skirnir Magus with the Thunder and Fang feat use Spell Combat, and attack with both the earth breaker and klar, all in the same turn? RAW, it would seem so. The Skirnir archetype rewrites Spell Combat for Skirnir.

Even then, if Thunder and Fang said "You lose the AC bonus of the shield when you attack", then I would say "Okay, you can't lose it twice: once for attacking, once for casting the spell." But you can do things like attack, and keep the AC bonus. So could you attack with it, and still cast the spell, trading off the AC bonus?

I'm not sure if I'm being very clear.

Liberty's Edge

I wouldn't allow Spell Combat to be used, using a klar. With most shields, the grip can be loose - there's also a strap...there's no strap with a klar. I don't know that this is specifically covered in the rules, per se.


Mechanical Pear wrote:
A Skirnir Magus can, at level 8, use Spell Combat while wielding a shield, though they lose the AC bonus to shield provides.

He only loses the AC bonus if he uses his shield hand to perform somatic components.

Mechanical Pear wrote:
Can a Skirnir Magus with the Thunder and Fang feat use Spell Combat, and attack with both the earth breaker and klar, all in the same turn?

Assuming the magus was able to choose the klar as his bonded object, then he can use spell combat and use the klar-hand to perform somatic components. If he does so, he loses the klar's bonus to AC.

Thunder and Fang allows you to retain the shield bonus your klar grants to your Armor Class even when you use it to attack.

You're not losing the AC bonus because of attacking, you're losing it because you're using that hand to perform somatic components.


What if there aren't any somatic components? I'm just...I dunno. I think this build would be pretty cool. Trying to make it work.


Mechanical Pear wrote:
What if there aren't any somatic components?

The ability isn't completely clear.

Shielded Spell Combat functions like Spell Combat, but only when wielding his bonded shield. In addition, the Skirnir can use his shield hand to perform somatic components.

I assume the intent is for that to mean your shield hand can be the free hand required for casting the spell. (I further assume that the shield hand can also manipulate material or focus components)

I think a Skirnir should basically have two options: Free hand to cast and Shield as weapon, or shield hand to cast a different weapon in the other hand.

As to whether you can use the latter, and also attack with the shield, the rules aren't clear. On one hand, it doesn't say you can't. On the other hand, it says you gain Spell Combat, but modified, and since it doesn't say that it modifies the hand requirements, it doesn't. Which means you can't attack with the shield if you use that hand to cast.

Mechanical Pear wrote:
I think this build would be pretty cool.

What's the benefit to using both weapons? If the earthbreaker is better, why not make all your attacks with it? Or, if the klar is better (since you have been enchanting it at half price since level 5, and qualify for more feats with it), why not ditch the earthbreaker and just use the shield?


Two Weapon Fighting. Use both for fun awesomeness + a spell. Not minmaxed by any means, but fun.


Mechanical Pear wrote:
Two Weapon Fighting. Use both for fun awesomeness + a spell.

Spell combat is its own kind of full-round action, and is not a full attack action. Two-weapon fighting requires a full-attack. You can't use both.

FAQ


Ah, I see, I see. Oh well.

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