Looking for a new rulebook for Savage Tides - Advice?


4th Edition


Hi all,

I'm currently running a 4th edition group through my own conversion of Savage Tides (it's not the most elegant, but they're enjoying the story and that's the most important thing). I'm coming into some bonus pay at work and am looking to pick up a new 4th edition book. I'm considering the Demonomicon, but if anybody has any suggestions for good books (especially those which fit into the Savage Tides story) I would love to hear them. It's been a LONG time since I brought a rulebook.

Cheers,
Chris.


I'd say in addition to the Demonomicon, the best 4E WotC fits for running Savage Tide are Manual of the Planes, Plane Above and Plane Below, especially the latter. Monster Manuals/Vaults never hurt of course, especially #1 (Orcus) and #2 (Demogorgon). Those books will basically give you a lot of planar monsters/demons which fit nicely with that adventure path.

Was there a 4E conversion ever done for Isle of Dread? I can't recall. I'm pretty sure there's a 4E version of Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan which fits in with the AP too.


Plane Below was something I was browsing too, seemed quite similar. Maybe I'll splurge and go for two... The benefit of having the online resources (we split the cost as a group) is that getting MMs isn't a major push, except for tactics and ecology.

I'm not sure on the conversion of Isle of Dread. I'm actually running a 3-man group through the campaign, so converting my own stuff means I can also scale. Fortuately, they're pretty well-balanced (A Paladin, a Sorcerer and a hybrid Warlord/Cleric). I'll happily post up my conversions if I do any I'm particularly proud of - I hate making NPC enemies in 4th Ed, too much guesswork. I pretty much borrow powers and mash together something which makes for a good fight rather than a deadly opponent.


Legendarius wrote:

I'd say in addition to the Demonomicon, the best 4E WotC fits for running Savage Tide are Manual of the Planes, Plane Above and Plane Below, especially the latter. Monster Manuals/Vaults never hurt of course, especially #1 (Orcus) and #2 (Demogorgon). Those books will basically give you a lot of planar monsters/demons which fit nicely with that adventure path.

Was there a 4E conversion ever done for Isle of Dread? I can't recall. I'm pretty sure there's a 4E version of Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan which fits in with the AP too.

I'd straight out stay away from Monster Manual #1 and to a lesser extent #2. They are full of monsters that just really are not that well designed and have not been updated to the latest monster rules. Most of the monsters in MM1 can be found in much better form in Monster Vault - pretty much you should always use the Monster Vault version. If you really need to use a monster from MM2 then be prepared to do some work on it to make for a better monster.


manafiend wrote:

Hi all,

I'm currently running a 4th edition group through my own conversion of Savage Tides (it's not the most elegant, but they're enjoying the story and that's the most important thing). I'm coming into some bonus pay at work and am looking to pick up a new 4th edition book. I'm considering the Demonomicon, but if anybody has any suggestions for good books (especially those which fit into the Savage Tides story) I would love to hear them. It's been a LONG time since I brought a rulebook.

Cheers,
Chris.

Hmm...I find it hard to suggest something you'll find really useful. The single best 4E book is Darksun but that is not applicable to what your doing (not applicable to my homebrew either...but still their best book).

OK big question is are you converting 4E to the basic cosmology of Savage Tide or are you converting the cosmology of the Savage Tide to 4E?

If your pretty much using Savage Tide's cosmology with 4E rules and monsters, and I suspect you are, then it gets very tough to make suggestions. None of the Demonicon, Plane Above or Plane below really fits (I have this problem in my home brew as well - its not 4E cosmology so I need to work around it). If your not even using their cosmology its hard to see what real use you'd have for any of these books. They are full of places and settings your not going to make use of and really the books are about 50% 'here are campaign and adventure ideas' that you don't need because your going to spend the next significant chunk of your life span playing savage tide - you hardly need a new campaign idea. Actually I tend to not know what WotC is thinking with this line in any case - I can't think of any DM that is short on campaign ideas...we have to many to run not too few...why waste our time presenting outlines for yet more?

Mordenkainen's Emporium is a good book but its mostly material that you'd get online, same problem with the monster books though I personally like the format of browsing through them prior to going to the builder.

If you don't already have the rules Compendium I'd suggest getting that but otherwise I'm not sure there is anything that will really pop. Their best books tend to be supplement books that one already has the material for in the builder, their flavor books, except for Darksun, are on weak side and that is more pronounced when your not even using their cosmology. I'd go with the Demonicon I suppose - maybe something there will be useful in the later parts of Savage Tide but I can't say I'd expect much.


Re: Plane Above/Below I was thinking more for the monster stat blocks they contain and less about the fluff.

As for DM's being short on campaign ideas - I find reading other ideas in the form of the fluff in these books inspiring at times. Other times, I'm lazy and I just want to grab something and use it and it's fine for that. Your mileage may vary. I don't think the bulk of many of the Pathfinder campaign resources are any different in this regard - they often provide a lot of fluff/ideas. Yes, I could create that stuff on my own, but it doesn't mean Paizo's material isn't useful or inspirational or just fun to read. That's my take.


I'm really using the cosmology and information from the Savage Tides, and making it 4th edition. My main thought is that as the campaign progresses, PCs seem to become more heavily involved with activities in the Abyss as well as other chaotic elements which start spreading throughout the material plane. In that sense, and because I sense I'll need a few side quests to help level them up (need to make up a session-long one to get them up a level before I begin the next part of the campaign) I could do with some inspiration for quests based around the demonic side of the setting. I was hoping some of the books would inspire me to do that.


Best book for side quests and look and feel for Savage Tide is 3.5's Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. Obviously the actual rule elements in it are of no use to you but it is mostly a fluff book and its one of the best ones ever done - definitely the best one about the Abyss ever done.

Thinking about it my suggestion is this is the book you should get to help out your 4E Savage Tide campaign.

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