This thread from reddit on Animist seems like a better Wildshaper than Wild Order Druid
Just making sure it is noticed and considered in the playtest.
No I'm not the original poster. If it had been me I'd have banged the drum about being very clear on how handwraps with a few different runes affect wild shape too.
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It is good to bring up.
I think the cost of it being sustained is being underrated.
In whiteroom it doesn't seem too bad.
When in the middle of combat where every action is valuable and you have to make hard decisions on what to spend actions on - and only being able to make one Strike this round because of the need to Stride in order to get close enough to attack the enemy that is on its last few HP but is wrecking the party... That cost hits a lot harder.
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I feel like this is true for almost are their focus spells. They are just better than the competition as of now.
Channeler Stance + Earth's Bile: Destroys everyone in sustained ranged damage.
Channeler Stance + Garden of Healing: Destroys everyone in sustained healing.
Poor Kineticist looks really weak compared to these abilities. Lucky there are still plenty of things Kineticist has going for them.
Embodiment of Battle: Ends up destroying any other caster trying to be hybrid martial. Of course, it starts out pretty bad.
Discomfiting Whispers: Has to be the best defensive ability in the game. Disadvantage on the enemies strongest attack is amazing.
I am not sure why it is this way. It couldn't be on accident... If all casters are getting buff like this, I am really worried about battles becoming way too easy.
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Yeah having ran a small playtest at level 1 embodiment of battle is almost unusable without sustaining dance, for melee characters at least, you really don't want to spend one of your actions to move 1 space when you are sustaining a spell that mainly helps you strike.
I feel like people relying on white room calculations are really underestimating how much of a play impact having to sustain your core mechanics can really be.
Like, focus spell heroism but you're permanently slowed 1 is not an amazing deal, especially at low levels, but people act like it's the most powerful thing Paizo's ever published.
I think the cost of it being sustained is being underrated.
I think this is one the most clunky aspects of the class and the one that needs to be solved ASAP (or rather at release). Someone in the subreddit suggested that each subclass should have their way to sustain spells, though I think it would be much better if each apparition had their way to sustain itself. For example, WoAB would probably allow you to Strike when you sustain, IiHP likely attempt to hide or sneak, etc.
This could be coupled with apparitions giving you one skill + one lore instead of two lores, as I feel two lores is...kinda lackluster honestly.
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I'm wondering if they should remove the requirement to sustain and just limit the Animist to 1 vessel spell per minute or something like that...channeler can have the advantage of changing out apparitions on the spot before casting their vessel spell while sage....I don't know...if anyone wants to run with that idea, you can come up with something.
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I think the cost of it being sustained is being underrated.I think this is one the most clunky aspects of the class and the one that needs to be solved ASAP (or rather at release). Someone in the subreddit suggested that each subclass should have their way to sustain spells, though I think it would be much better if each apparition had their way to sustain itself. For example, WoAB would probably allow you to Strike when you sustain, IiHP likely attempt to hide or sneak, etc.
This could be coupled with apparitions giving you one skill + one lore instead of two lores, as I feel two lores is...kinda lackluster honestly.
I don't think this is a good solution.
I was building a playtest Animist with a friend and one thing that becomes pretty clear during playtest is that the class is already too template locked (specially in lower levels) forcing you to deal with heritage characteristics that you get from your Apparition. If you choose Steward of Stone and Fire because of Earth's Bile and Custodian of Groves and Gardens due Garden of Healing you have to deal that your only available rank 1 spells for your Apparition Spell slots are wall of shrubs and interposing earth and half of your cantrips will be produce flame ignition and tanglefoot tangle vine.
If you add how your sustain will work based in Apparition it will be one more thing locked to templates in a class that gives you a lot of choices at same time that limit them inside packages.
Yeah even earth's bile, which is quite nice has the issue of just not having a enough range a lot of the time and if enemies are flanking your allies (or your allies are flanking the enemy you want to bile) you have to delay so they can get out of there before you can bile without hitting them, which I'm pretty sure ends the spell.Yeah having ran a small playtest at level 1 embodiment of battle is almost unusable without sustaining dance, for melee characters at least, you really don't want to spend one of your actions to move 1 space when you are sustaining a spell that mainly helps you strike.I feel like people relying on white room calculations are really underestimating how much of a play impact having to sustain your core mechanics can really be.
Like, focus spell heroism but you're permanently slowed 1 is not an amazing deal, especially at low levels, but people act like it's the most powerful thing Paizo's ever published.
The distance isn't a big problem. Most battlemaps don't have rooms or aren't large enough to 30 feet deal without need to move (and you can move while you Sustain with Animist).
But in fact burst effect are problematic to target non-large enemies that your allies are flanking. They probably need to avoid this strategy when you use Bile. Also Delay is not an option to those who are sustaining. The people usually forget this:
If the spell’s duration is “sustained,” it lasts until the end of your next turn unless you use a Sustain a Spell action on that turn to extend the duration of that spell.
When you Delay, any persistent damage or other negative effects that normally occur at the start or end of your turn occur immediately when you use the Delay action. Any beneficial effects that would end at any point during your turn also end. The GM might determine that other effects end when you Delay as well. Essentially, you can’t Delay to avoid negative consequences that would happen on your turn or to extend beneficial effects that would end on your turn.
There a thing in Animist that many people are failing to notice and thinking "wow this class is super strong" but not notice this is coming at cost of your versatility.
For Paizo designers versatility is also power (sometimes we call this as horizontal power). All theses benefits of strong focus spells comes at the cost that half of your power are locked to your apparition templates and that to keep sustaining a spell cames at the cost of be unable to use 3-action spells/activities (did you notice that some spells provided by the Apparition repetorie like wall of shrubs, safe passage, dancing fountain, wall of thorns, tangling creepers, wrathful storm, wall of fire and wall of stone are 3-action spells?) and less flexibility in your spellcasting.
I don't this is a good solution.
I was building a playtest Animist with a friend and one thing that becomes pretty clear during playtest is that the class is already too template locked (specially in lower levels) forcing you to deal with heritage characteristics that you get from your Apparition. If you choose Steward of Stone and Fire because of Earth's Bile and Custodian of Groves and Gardens due Garden of Healing you have to deal that your only available rank 1 spells for your Apparition Spell slots are wall of shrubs and interposing earth and half of your cantrips will be
produce flameignition andtanglefoottangle vine.If you add how your sustain will work based in Apparition it will be one more thing locked to templates in a class that gives you a lot of choices at same time that limit them inside packages.
I feel this is just one more argument against stacking apparitions as a baseline. I've built an Animist starting with the exact same apparitions as you, and most of my turns at low level ended up being Earth's Bile + Ignition for a bunch of damage each turn (and it was a lot of damage, as well). Sustaining Dance was a complete game-changer, because it meant I could do all that and not be a sitting duck. When I instead opted into Stalker in Darkened Boughs or Witness to Ancient Battles, that feat was also a life-saver because the mobility was often necessary to then be able to Strike twice. Using a stance action felt really bad most of the time, and spellshape actions felt practically impossible to use at all without incurring the loss of a really powerful effect.
Generally, there just isn't really the room to Sustain two vessel spells at a time even as a Channeler, but I would welcome more action compressors to the Animist's Sustain action early on. Tying them to apparitions would at the very least mean that having several of them at a time would give you more options for how to spend your third action in addition to Sustaining. On the flipside, given the power of several existing vessel spells, I also feel it would be too strong for the Animist to output those powerful effects while also doing other useful things at the same time, which is why I'd be inclined to change how vessel spells function so that they can be sustained without triggering their effects.
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When your 1-action Sustain has more impact than being able to cast another different 3-action spell all while not having to spend any spell slots or additional Focus Points (which is functionally true for all of the sustained Focus Spells that people are actually talking about) then the point that "well if they sustain they cant use their limited existing actual spell slots for 3-action spells" is completely moot. The Animist gets MORE power out of taking Stride + Sustain for the 1 Focus Point they spent last round or the round before that or the round before that than pretty much any other caster gets for spending the whole turn NOT moving and casting a 3-action spell. That's the issue and why it isn't balanced, and yet, we STILL have people begging for a free action Sustain Feat for Animist, it's bonkers.
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I uh, don't think you've taken a look at what the sustained Animist Focus Spells actually do because for 1-action they pack WAY more punch than any other previously published Focus Spells. Couple that with the fact that you're not spending any Slots to use it, still getting the benefit of the Stride Action you were almost certainly going to take regardless, and be able to cast actual Spells with your remaining two actions anyhow.
I'm hopeful that the kind of thing we are seeing with the Animist is more of a sign that we should expect SIGNIFICANT buffs to the CRB/APG Class Focus Spells more than anything else because, well, I actually don't have a problem with Focus Spells being good and strong, that's perfectly fine and good actually as it encourages PCs to play to their Class/Role niche. If the Remaster hits though and the existing Focus Spells we already have aren't significantly buffed to bring them in line with what the Animist has then, well, folks talking about power creep will have simply been proven correct.
When your 1-action Sustain has more impact than being able to cast another different 3-action spell all while not having to spend any spell slots or additional Focus Points (which is functionally true for all of the sustained Focus Spells that people are actually talking about) then the point that "well if they sustain they cant use their limited existing actual spell slots for 3-action spells" is completely moot. The Animist gets MORE power out of taking Stride + Sustain for the 1 Focus Point they spent last round or the round before that or the round before that than pretty much any other caster gets for spending the whole turn NOT moving and casting a 3-action spell. That's the issue and why it isn't balanced, and yet, we STILL have people begging for a free action Sustain Feat for Animist, it's bonkers.
I feel that's one of the problems with the Animist that's sort of stifling discussion right now: on one hand, increasingly more people are starting to realize that the class goes way overboard on raw power and versatility, but also that it has this incredibly awkward action economy that makes its turns feel repetitive and limiting, even if the output of each turn is extremely powerful. Personally, I'd like to curtail some of that raw power and excessive versatility while also allowing for more action compressors around their Sustain action (though it probably shouldn't be a free action Sustain), and I don't think I'm alone in this, but otherwise you can see people are drawing some pretty fierce lines in the sand.
On one side, you have people who feel the Animist already does too much and so shouldn't receive any improvements to their action economy under any circumstances, but on the other side, you can see a whole bunch of people getting really defensive because they see the Animist as their ticket to a 1e-style caster that's both exceedingly strong and exceedingly powerful. It's difficult to reach any kind of compromise here given that both camps seem pretty deeply entrenched and unwilling to see certain aspects of the class changed, even if doing so would be beneficial to the Animist or the game as a whole.
Personally, I'd much rather see a less overly flexible Animist with less ridiculously strong focus spells, but with an action economy every turn that gives them a few more options, than an Animist that has way too much power and versatility, but finds themselves chained to the same boring rotation each turn in an encounter. The former I think at least has a chance of making the class and the game more fun to play; the latter in my opinion does not.
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The channeler flat out doesn't work with out 2 apparitions and many of their feats involve needing to switch apparitions, but still have access to vessel and apparition spells worth casting. I strongly recommend people try to make and playtest the characters that they think are going to break things with these focus spells or feats or flexibility before asking for nerfs. Many really cool ideas for exploits just don't actually work in practice when you look at your options in play.
Earth's bile has a blasting potential only if the areas can stack. If they can't the damage is not great for a blasting focus spell option, and even if they do, spending 3 actions a turn sustaining the same spell is an incredibly boring and bad design goal for a class. Embodiment of battle is hard to use with grudge strike. And even then, it is a 1 attack a round feature that can't really be boosted by your allies in any of the ways that a fighter, barbarian or ranger can. The healing of Garden of healing is obscene in the post combat healing game, but requires a lot of tactical maneuvering in combat not to be as big a pain as it is a help. So either you are not using any focus spells in combat (which really hurts the animist) or you are cycling them and if you lose your sustain on Garden, you are not getting nearly as much healing from it as you would with other focus spell healing options. I guess a fair question might be whether the animist can refocus while switching apparitions because if not, garden of healing sages are pretty limited in what they are actually doing in encounters.
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There is one other point that I don't think I've seen addressed.
The Animist REALLY wants long rest periods between each encounter to refocus. I think that the actual at the table power of the class is going to be very significantly impacted by how often they get 30 or even 40 minutes between combats (3 focus points spent in combat combined with an out of combat healing).
If I'm right it is going to be quite hard to get a consensus on how powerful the class actually is as GM style is going to have a greater than normal impact
The channeler flat out doesn't work with out 2 apparitions and many of their feats involve needing to switch apparitions, but still have access to vessel and apparition spells worth casting. I strongly recommend people try to make and playtest the characters that they think are going to break things with these focus spells or feats or flexibility before asking for nerfs. Many really cool ideas for exploits just don't actually work in practice when you look at your options in play.
Earth's bile has a blasting potential only if the areas can stack. If they can't the damage is not great for a blasting focus spell option, and even if they do, spending 3 actions a turn sustaining the same spell is an incredibly boring and bad design goal for a class. Embodiment of battle is hard to use with grudge strike. And even then, it is a 1 attack a round feature that can't really be boosted by your allies in any of the ways that a fighter, barbarian or ranger can. The healing of Garden of healing is obscene in the post combat healing game, but requires a lot of tactical maneuvering in combat not to be as big a pain as it is a help. So either you are not using any focus spells in combat (which really hurts the animist) or you are cycling them and if you lose your sustain on Garden, you are not getting nearly as much healing from it as you would with other focus spell healing options. I guess a fair question might be whether the animist can refocus while switching apparitions because if not, garden of healing sages are pretty limited in what they are actually doing in encounters.
There appears to be this running accusation that the people asking for nerfs haven't playtested the class, which I think is both untrue and seems to often come from those who themselves aren't arguing from playtesting experience. As someone who has playtested the class, my experience was the following:
My first run was with Custodian of Groves and Gardens, plus Steward of Stone and Fire, and the Channeler practice. Initially, I did find Garden of Healing a bit unwieldy due to its short range and ability to heal enemies, but quickly settled on using the spell exclusively out of combat, where I was dishing out something like 100 HP of total healing a pop in my party of four at level 1. That is pretty busted, and I think the focus spell needs to be reviewed specifically for its abuse potential out of combat, given how it blows alternatives like Medicine out of the water.
In-combat, what I quickly ended up settling into at level 1 was a damage rotation of Earth's Bile + Ignition each turn. While I obviously didn't land everything every turn, Earth's Bile made for extremely consistent area damage, and being able to commit my whole turn to dealing 4d4 damage, plus 1 persistent damage, made for some exceptionally strong damage even against single targets, even ignoring the AoE component. Later on, I realized I could pump out even more single-target damage with Needle Darts instead of Ignition for 5d4 damage and 1 persistent damage a turn, not factoring in crits or partial damage from a successful save. That is too much.
The main problem I had at level 1 was that going through this rotation made me a sitting duck, which led to occasions where I had to abandon either Sustaining my spell (which felt pretty bad) or casting Needle Darts in order to move. At level 2, Sustaining Dance remedied that problem fairly well by letting me move around while doing my usual rotation. When I tried out the battle empowerment vessel spells, it felt essential, as it let me move and Strike x2 on the same turn when I needed to. In my opinion, it quickly becomes apparent how good Sustain action compressors are on the Animist.
I didn't include any stance or spellshape feats for very long because I simply had no room on my usual turn. Entering a stance anytime before level 18 meant I had to either not cast my vessel spell on that turn, or have a dangling third action as I spent my second action to cast or Sustain the effect. As for spellshapes, I simply couldn't spellshape while also Sustaining my vessel spell without the 16th-level stance, and that's far too late a feat to enable such a build.
By contrast, while I don't yet have the most playtesting experience with this, experimenting with weaker vessel spells that give you actions that Sustain the spell when used felt pretty good. River Carving Mountains was the biggest winner, as the spell is otherwise really cumbersome, and the one major issue I had was with Earth's Bile, whose repeatable damage meant I had to restrict subsequent casts on the same turn to a different area. Switching Garden of Healing's Sustain action to temporary hit points on a single target within a larger range felt more reasonable, but also generally easier to use, and overall those actions so far seem to be allowing for more varied turns. Because of how they interact with the Sustain action, it means Sustaining Dance, while still useful, changes significantly in function: rather than do one good action on top of a massively powerful action that also Sustains this spell you really want to keep up, it just keeps the spell running on turns where you want to move and do something not related to your vessel spell without losing it. With more action compressors like that, I think that could lead to a much more fluid and diverse range of turns for the Animist than its current state, even if I don't think it would address the other issues I've encountered with the class.
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Embodiment of battle is hard to use with grudge strike. And even then, it is a 1 attack a round feature that can't really be boosted by your allies in any of the ways that a fighter, barbarian or ranger can.
Yeah. That is another good point. Embodiment of Battle and Grudge Strike have already used your Status bonus and Circumstance bonus. Your living allies won't be able to help you farther than what your living impaired allies already have.
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Mentioning that there is an entire thread dedicated to discussing this particular change in out of combat healing. Garden of Healing isn't the only ability that has more healing amounts than the Medicine skill.
There is one other point that I don't think I've seen addressed.
The Animist REALLY wants long rest periods between each encounter to refocus. I think that the actual at the table power of the class is going to be very significantly impacted by how often they get 30 or even 40 minutes between combats (3 focus points spent in combat combined with an out of combat healing).
If I'm right it is going to be quite hard to get a consensus on how powerful the class actually is as GM style is going to have a greater than normal impact
U got a good point here.
While some people complain that the its off-encounter healing is pretty strong. In practice what we get is a class the usually used 2-3 its focus points per encounter and need 30-40 minutes recovering. That's the why I always repeat that its out-of-combat healing pointed as overpowered are being too overvalued. Usually is the Animist who will ask to party to wait until it get fully refocused.
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There is one other point that I don't think I've seen addressed.
The Animist REALLY wants long rest periods between each encounter to refocus. I think that the actual at the table power of the class is going to be very significantly impacted by how often they get 30 or even 40 minutes between combats (3 focus points spent in combat combined with an out of combat healing).
If I'm right it is going to be quite hard to get a consensus on how powerful the class actually is as GM style is going to have a greater than normal impact
This is a good point. I am looking at Animist from an optimizing perspective. It just feels like if a group rest 30 minutes between every battle the Animist is just bonkers.
This kind of just makes them cantrips unless people are limiting "rests"
At least compared to what we have now. Right now their abilities are just way better than other 1 action abilities except maybe Bard or Strike (but there is map).
Someone will use their third action to Demoralize, raise shield, force bolt etc...
Animist use their third action...
All enemies nearby have disadvantage of first attack.
Damaging spell better than electric arc.
Healing that rivals 1 action heal. Half but AOE.
Just seems crazy to me. I can't imagine other casters at a table feeling good right now... Except for Bards of course.
I action heal isn't great but it does have it's niche uses, but since it's overall just one part of a fantastic spell I don't know if it should be compared to other options on its own.
Usually the 1-action heal is more attack focused vs undead. It's the same principle of harm. For damage it deal 1d8 per rank with the diference between 1-2 action being the distance. So 1-action heal makes sense if you are a warpriest and want to Strike + heal/harm an enemy. For healing an ally they are just inviable when compared with 1d8+8 per rank version.
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Aww everyone complaining about 1 action heal...
Look over at Kineticist and that is the best heal I get until level 6 and comes with a 10 minute immunity.
I am curious what 1 action are better than maxed one action heal for a caster? I feel like pre Animist any support character would love picking up Oceans Balm.
That is kind of what I am getting at, that would be considered a good action for most casters right now and Animist trumps them easily.
Casters right now get like 1d4 single target damage from one action "good" ability. Maybe this will all change in the remaster. Things like shield, guidance just didn't hold a candle to Animist.
I think Sorcerer focus spell is the most damaging one at 1d8 but uses map, misses all the time and you don't get to sustain it.
I am curious what 1 action are better than maxed one action heal for a caster? I feel like pre Animist any support character would love picking up Oceans Balm.
That is kind of what I am getting at, that would be considered a good action for most casters right now and Animist trumps them easily.
Fervor Witch here.
Ones that I have used personally in-game:
Strike.
Stoke the Heart.
Needle of Vengeance.
Guidance.
Shield.
Aid.
Trip.
Sustaining Spiritual Weapon.
However, I have never been interested in casting 1-action Heal. Or 3-action Heal.
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Usually the 1-action heal is more attack focused vs undead. It's the same principle of harm. For damage it deal 1d8 per rank with the diference between 1-2 action being the distance. So 1-action heal makes sense if you are a warpriest and want to Strike + heal/harm an enemy. For healing an ally they are just inviable when compared with 1d8+8 per rank version.
Oh for sure, that is the best use for it. But I have been in a situation where a 2 action heal on one target, and a 1 action heal for another helped bring both allies up. Ideally this is what a 3 action one is for, but if you are in a position where that would also heal enemies than this could do in a pinch. And sometimes you just don't have the better options at your disposal.
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Strike.
Stoke the Heart.
Needle of Vengeance.
Guidance.
Shield.
Aid.
Trip.
Sustaining Spiritual Weapon
I don't think any of these are really better than 1 action heal, I don't feel the any of the options you listed are particularly strong except for trip though. Glad you enjoy using them though, Witch buffs are coming! Of course, as a spell slot I would probably never use 1 action heal in general except maybe for Cleric.
I will admit trip has amazing situational potential if you are with a lot of martials with attack or opportunity. Aid might be good at low levels, but it is really just based on what the GM lets you do. If GM just lets you aid with your best skill that would be great. I always try to grab the feats that let you skip asking permission :)
Here is kind of the big thing about most of them, they are technically one action but either from positioning or action requirements are effectively two, E.g. you need to strike to take advantage of witness's and stalker, you need to stride to take advantage of Vanguard's.
This is an interesting point. I was more talking about the ones that don't requires attack. If you are sustaining + attacking you won't be casting a spell. I feel like you cast both Embodiment of Battle and Darkened Forest Form when you are done casting spells and ready to attack the rest of the battle.
River Carving Mountains: I have no idea what to do with this one. It seems useless. There must be something I am missing... has someone made actually use out of this?
Embodiment of Battle: This one is just sad early on. Late game it looks like you might be able to rival a Martial though. Unless of course Martial's can pick this up... that is a different discussion though.
Darkened Forest Form: Seems great, this doesn't really have anything to do with my argument though. If I can get this on Monk easily becomes a amazing shapeshifter build... again that is in a different discussion.
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I think maybe this time they erred a bit on the powerful side to see how well it is received and the spells will be more balanced in the final version.
Not so sure.
The initial focus spells in the CRB were rather weak in general. The healing ones, the Druids were well recieved but the majority of focus spells for the other classes (especially Cleric and Wizard) were not well liked. I felt that the good focus spells were aimed at a step back from a top level caster spell slot.But they have gotten better in the newer classes especially the Pyschic.
It remains to be seen if they retune these in the remaster.
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It is possible that the Remaster has tuned up all of the underwhelming focus spells and we are just seeing the new balance in these playtest focus spells.
But I am not entirely convinced of that.
The only one that actually seems overpowering is Earth's Bile, and that is mostly because the spell is unfortunately missing the 'non-overlapping' and 'no double damage' limitations of spells like Telekinetic Rend and Meteor Swarm. Though the wording for Bile would need to specify that the restriction applies to all instances of the spell that one character casts.
Garden of Healing is also called out, but mostly for its out-of-combat ability to heal up the entire party to full in about a minute. That does seem like something that would match a tuned-up version of other healing spells in Remaster.
The rest don't seem to me to be all that out of balance.
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The thing that stands out for me, after playing around a bit more, with the Animist's wild shape is the same problem I've had with the wild order druid for a while.
The druid's first round really sucks. Despite having action economy issues over a long fight, getting two actions to act immediately after wild shaping feels [/b]amazing[/b] over the druid casting wild shape and then sort of just having nothing to do unless the enemy started right next to them.
Self buff + Stride is the saddest round in Pathfinder, especially when easier or middling combats can be over really fast.
The longer a fight goes, the more it tips back in the druid's favor, but being able to move and strike in that first round is some serious quality of life.
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Self buff + Stride is the saddest round in Pathfinder, especially when easier or middling combats can be over really fast.
Why would a Druid want to Wild Shape and then Stride towards enemies?
Wouldn't the better choice be some other action first and then Wild Shape as their last two actions of the round?
So:
round 1: Demoralize/Recall Knowledge/Guidance, Wild Shape
round 2: Stride, Strike, Strike
vs:
round 1: Darkened Forest Form, Stride, Strike
round 2: Sustain, Strike, Strike
The difference doesn't seem that large to me.
The Druid did something useful instead of Strike on their first turn, and didn't wind up ending their first turn adjacent to an enemy.
The Animist got in a first hit, but didn't have time to help the party with any of the other actions available to them. And they are taking full retaliation damage after their first Strike.
And from there the Animist's need to sustain becomes more important if the enemy moves away from melee range as their third action.
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Like I said it's a quality of life thing. Druids often aren't great at demoralizing, RK can be hit or miss. It's not that there aren't things you can do, it's just that it's somewhat difficult to make that first round feel valuable, especially if wildshaping is a core part of your character's identity.
"My first round sucks" is a fairly common complaint I've heard from wild shape druids (and a few other similar builds that rely on a self buff)... there was a thread about it like a week or two ago even.
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"My first round sucks" is a fairly common complaint I've heard from wild shape druids (and a few other similar builds that rely on a self buff)... there was a thread about it like a week or two ago even.
I don't doubt it. One of the games I am in has a Druid that retrained their Order Explorer out of Wild Order to Storm Order because they just couldn't justify using Wild Shape.
But now I am imagining a Channeler Animist that happens to not have Stalker in Darkened Boughs as primary currently because they were doing something else right before battle. Worst of both cases. Two actions to get the spell cast on the first round, and then an action to sustain each round after that.