The next D&D movie...


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There is no movie-related value in the D&D brand by itself, though. D&D is a set of rules, not a story. You could create an original story for the film and it could be good or bad (or very bad in the case of the 2000 movie and its sequels), or you could go for a novel or novel series that already has a huge fanbase to help build up word-of-mouth.

The only way to utilise the D&D brand for a film without resorting to one of the settings or novels is to either have a film about D&D, the game (basically a big-budget version of THE GAMERS), or maybe to do something related to the 1980s cartoon series, for which there is some nostalgia value.

Sovereign Court

Problem with that huge fanbase of the 19th best selling fantasy author is that might as well be nothing in terms of the movie going public. What I would like to see them do is put the movie on the back burner for now. MAke a comic series and an animated show using the setting. Build a base first then supply a movie. Right now an original script has the same chance of a setting novel which isnt much. Maybe if they somehow got nerd god behind it then folks would flock to it. Perhaps Whedon would give it a shot?


The thing to do would be to downplay the DnD, and try to play off the current Game of Thrones popularity. If you market the movie towards that fanbase and can get a good script and director, it will be sell tickets. I don't think the market has ever been better primed for Fantasy movies, now that Game of Thrones has convinced people they are not just for little kids.

A TV or netflix series actually would be the best testing ground for such a show. A comic series is never going to be a good test for a theatrically released movie, and I question who you would market the DnD cartoon. The last cartoon movie flopped, and for the most part I don't think the core audience for such media is going to overlap much with people who know or care about DnD.


Quote:
Problem with that huge fanbase of the 19th best selling fantasy author is that might as well be nothing in terms of the movie going public.

To get films making tens of millions of dollars, you need just a few million people to go to the cinema to watch them. To get over $100 million, you need about 12 million people (less if it's in 3D, as 3D tickets are more expensive).

If you have a series of books that have sold 30 million+ copies, you can probably expect at the very least a couple of million readers to see the film. To a studio, having even 10% of your audience pre-guaranteed by books is quite a big deal and makes it vastly more attractive. Hell, even 5% (which is about which the DARK MATERIALS movie deal guaranteed, though that backfired due to other factors) is worthwhile.

With GAME OF THRONES, those books had only sold maybe 4-5 million copies (meaning only 1 million readers worldwide, tops) when HBO optioned them. However, HBO courted those readers, got them on board and got them to make a lot of noise on the Internet and get people excited about the TV show, resulting in one of the most heavily-trailed and pre-sold TV shows in history by the time it finally came out.

You're right in that basing a movie on a big-selling book is no guarantee the film will be a success, but it certainly helps, especially if combined with the right marketing and a good director.

However, I have to say that using an animated series and other things (video games and comics, though they already have those) to build up interest before releasing a big movie is a good idea, and Hasbro already did that with TRANSFORMERS with a number of projects in the early 2000s before they released the Bay movie in 2007. If this court case is going to drag on for a couple of years, pursuing some sort of similar strategy for D&D might be a good idea.

Quote:
I question who you would market the DnD cartoon.

There's quite a lot of nostalgia for 1980s cartoons at the moment, with THUNDERCATS and some other things (TMNT) coming back, so you could certainly put a modern version of the 1980s cartoon up for adult fans to watch with their kids. This is the sort of thing Hasbro excels at. Whether they would consider it or not depends on if they think they can cross-market it with toys (which drove the success of those other cartoons).

You'd also do such a thing to raise the 'noise level' of the franchise prior to releasing a live-action movie. Hasbro did a similar thing with TRANSFORMERS in the 2000s (using the comics, new toy lines and the UNICRON trilogy of animated series to springboard up to the 2007 movie).


I don't see them using Drizz't as a base for anything beyond existing product lines because the second they do, they get to deal with those who actively hate Drizz't for a wide variety of reasons, those who are simply tired of hearing anything about Drizz't, and the problem that Drizz't by himself is actually a pretty boring, largely one dimensional character. The same love or hate tendencies that keeps fans of the novels coming back for the next book would work against them in trying to launch a new product based on the same character; the massive amount of hate and/or apathy built up by now doesn't affect the existing novel line overly much, as it's established enough to have a solid fan base, but it would fully impact new material.

It's the same problem that FR has in general when it comes to marketing new products; the same rabidness that pushes it forward tends to create both a passive and active counter reaction, especially after so many iterations, stories, and views about it over the many years it's been in use, making it just as hard to market new products based on it as it would to market a completely brand new IP. Even the new MMO has major challenges in providing a version of FR that satisfies all of it's rabid fans without turning off those less than thrilled with the base setting.

Sovereign Court

Its Drizzt, without the apostrophe.


I've seen it both ways.


Nope, it's 'Drizzt'. If you've ever seen it spelt 'Drizz't', it's not in an official D&D or FR product.

As said above, you use the established fanbase to help make noise about the project and attract newcomers: whether a franchise has 'haters' or not is irrelevant, because a film producer is not interested in engaging with them, but with the (in the case of the Realms and the Drizzt books) millions and millions of fans, who outnumber the haters (no matter how vocal) by many orders of magnitude. I agree there's a large number of D&D fans who are indifferent to Drizzt and the Realms, but if a good film comes out and gets positive reviews, I don't think that's an issue.

Having pushed this as the option that makes the most sense, there are also other things they could do with a D&D movie, including using an original world and story (that would also save them having to pay licenses to Salvatore and Greenwood, in case their original deals with TSR and WotC didn't cover film rights), though that didn't work back in 2000. If they decided they wanted to go MEGA-EPIC from the off, DRAGONLANCE may also appeal more.


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Even discounting the active hate, pleasing all of the active fans becomes a major problem. Less so with specific characters, but still true of anything FR. People will nitpick everything from the name of the random village to why using a different village/monster/region would have fit a particular character better, so it's still far from a slam dunk choice. The problem with the millions and millions of fans is that FR isn't a single IP put out by a single source as much as it is a world that has as many functional iterations as it does groups that run it. WoTC may determine the "official" story, but the number of groups that don't stray from that in numerous critical ways is going to be pretty small. Dragonlance or Ravenloft would be better in that those stories and worlds are much, much more targeted, meaning the official story/world is more recognizable to everyone and less deviated from.


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Err...they nitpick everything to death even now though. Certainly it hasn't stopped the production of new Star Trek, or new comic book movies; or the future production of new Star Wars. I suspect the Drizzt distractors will be even less noticeable that the critics of the above. And face it....People who don't like Drizzt will probably still see the movie, if only to see DnD staples on the big screen.


Werthead wrote:

... but if a good film comes out and gets positive reviews, I don't think that's an issue.

For that movie to get positive reviews, Salvatore must not be involved. Which will not happen, so you can't expect positive reviews.

Sovereign Court

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Why? He is not a horrible writer, aside from the almost pornographic ways he describes every sword swing which annoys me, and honestly, Drizzt is his baby. He deserves to be included in the creative process. Plus, his descriptions of Menzobarranzan are breathtaking. Plus i love his dwarves.


Fabius Maximus wrote:
Werthead wrote:

... but if a good film comes out and gets positive reviews, I don't think that's an issue.

For that movie to get positive reviews, Salvatore must not be involved. Which will not happen, so you can't expect positive reviews.

Salvatore would be very unlikely to be involved in the script. For one he has no experience in Hollywood. Secondly, the Drizzt novels are already rather cinematic and should be straight forward to adapt, compared to many other book series. Thirdly, I think WOTC and Hasbro own the rights to the characters. I don't he actually has much creative control over what they do with those sets of characters in other media. Hell...my understanding was that he wasn't very happy with the 4E transition of the Forgotten Realms, but either had the option of continuing to write in the setting with Drizzt or have someone else write Drizzt stories.


There is a warcraft movie?!?.

Mostly posting this because if a big budget Warcraft movie is happening, with ILM doing effects and a good director (Duncan Jones!) attached, it give a bit of hope that we might actually see an enjoyable DnD movie.


Hama wrote:
Why? He is not a horrible writer, aside from the almost pornographic ways he describes every sword swing which annoys me, and honestly, Drizzt is his baby. He deserves to be included in the creative process. Plus, his descriptions of Menzobarranzan are breathtaking. Plus i love his dwarves.

Are you kidding? Salvatore is terrible. His stories are trite and his characters stereotypes that barely develop. His recent decision to reincarnate Drizzt's companions is so awful that I don't know if I should laugh or cry.


Salvatore is terrible now, sure. He hasn't turned in a good (or even halfway-decent) book for twenty years. However, the early Drizzt novels (up to and including SIEGE OF DARKNESS, maybe) are okay. They have action beats, more complex characters (even if Salvatore's complexity means 'long drow emo-ness') and some - somewhat - interesting ideas on racism and prejudice.

They're not brilliant, but they are certainly acceptable, low-brow action fare which occasionally tries to be a tiny bit more ambitious. And it's not unknown for weak novels to make good films (THE GODFATHER, most famously) either.


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If a movie like Battleship can be greenlit, then D&D can be greenlit. It's all about the pitch.

I don't think people will flock to it because of Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Drizzt or Dark Sun or Planescape or even a combination of these factors (or any others that float our boats for D&D).

Mechanics represented as reality will also not be a determinator - a barbarian raging, a smiting paladin, a wizard's magic missile, a clerical turn undead, a druidic wildshape or a rogue's trap detection or sneak attack will not make this movie more accessible or bankable. All of these will make it cooler, however.

Being endorsed by the company that makes the game will have an effect, as it will connect movie-goers to other properties they have had a hand in (for good or ill).

The main thing though, is direction, writing, acting, script. If these are good, then the marketing will follow, and we as gamers can then hope for whatever D&D-specific references are thrown in as nods to the enlightened. They must not ever be allowed to determine the path of the movie though.

The story must stand on it's own and a complete newbie should not be scratching their heads and asking "Why is this character acting like this? Why is that place important? What are they talking about?" It should just flow from the script itself, self-contained but with subtle references we can grin at.

The idea of the D&D cartoon writ large could be viable, as the characters could ask all the questions a movie-goer would have in being plunged into a new world. But there is enough familiarity now with major fantasy tropes that it isn't required.

Forgotten Realms is one of the more well-known IP Hasbro could use, as the branding helps place the location within the game, which could then be built into marketing and loosely referred to in the film.

Drizzt is another aspect - readers of fantasy will probably know the character, or at least the series, and a "dark elf as hero" plot isn't a common trope in films, yet is not too great a stretch for fans of Twilight, The Mortal Instruments, Batman and X-Men.

Personally, I think the key point of making a D&D film is the tone. The LOTR trilogy had it right, with funny moments and epic battles sharing screen time with sensitive characterisation and genuine soul. It really worked.

The tone for D&D I would like to see is: magic is powerful, dangerous, and easy to turn bad; characters with emotional strength will prevail over those without; luck can turn the tide (both ways); and everyone gets their turn to shine (think of the Avengers NY battle for that one, not a case of the fighter saying "Oh darn it, we need someone who can shrink to get past this door", and the wizard replies "I may have a spell for that" convenient necessity).

Oh yeah, it needs to be a team. And it needs a really good enemy.

FWIW, I like the idea of: Drizzt "and friends" in Myth Drannor (Forgotten Realms) against undead (which are more bankable than dragons, less controversial than demons, and very versatile - plus they weren't major villains in LOTR so that's good).

Also, make someone other than Drizzt the viewers point of view within the story. The emotional core should be more relatable to us than a non-human, evil-but-not, brooding loner. Think Rogue and Wolverine.

The Exchange

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I have to say, I am sick of Drizzt, but not because of Salvatore's writing or over saturation. I am sick of him because of the ridiculous nerd-ragers that complain about him.
He is somewhat one dimensional. People copy him for their characters. He is too whiney. So what? Everything you can criticize Drizzt for can 100% directly be applied to Luke Skywalker and Anakin Skywalker equally although the nerd-nostalgia glasses seem to forget how annoying Luke was.
The early novels about Drizzt, The Crystal Shard series and his growing up in the underdark stuff, were very enjoyable to me. Were they masterfully crafted fiction of the highest level? No. They were enjoyable, pulp fantasy from the genre I love and that works enough for me.
Toss out a Crystal Shard trilogy of movies and I will see each one several times in theatres, by each movie individually when they hit DVD/BluRay, re-buy them with the expanded box set, and purchase tons of Merchandise from the movie...everything from toys to shirts to video games. I will be all over it.
And all the stuck-up nerd-ragers can keep hating. You can't please them so don't try. Try pleasing the masses looking for the next action fantasy adventure. The Crystal Shard would do that very well and could pave the way for a Harpers movie or an Elminster movie or maybe a Cleric's Quintet of movies or whatever.
More fantasy presence is what I want and the best way to do that is with stuff that already has a huge audience. Huge audiences always have a small group that is haters. Some people hate just because it is popular.
Screw them, make the movie for the masses.


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Fabius Maximus wrote:
His recent decision to reincarnate Drizzt's companions is so awful that I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

What decision is this? I really want to hear about this, as I've not.

Also, I'm not entirely sure he can be blamed, considering how the characters were more or less dumped on at the start of 4E.

As an author, being told, "Yeah, these characters you've written forever, well, they're going to have to all be killed off, 'cause reasons." seems really... painful.

Anyway, if the story is about Drizzt, yeah, he should be involved. It's his stuff. One major complaint about Salvatore is that, "he doesn't get the drow." which, you know, I find curious, as, if I recall (and correct me if I'm wrong, please), weren't his early novels the ones that actually helped create the drow as they are? I was under the impression that it was his influence (by way of Drizzt) that gave the drow some of their most iconic aspects (the ones that Drizzt rejects).

Also that he didn't create Drizzt to be "the main character", but instead planned on it being Wulfgar (which, reading the early books, seems really obvious to me). It just kind of switched at some point when he was writing it.

Dazylar wrote:
Also, make someone other than Drizzt the viewers point of view within the story. The emotional core should be more relatable to us than a non-human, evil-but-not, brooding loner. Think Rogue and Wolverine.

I'm not really up on my latest Drizzt stuff, so... what? Is Drizzt evil without being called evil now? 'Cause, odd as he was sometimes, he was never what I'd call 'evil', ever.

I agree with the rest of your post, however.

Regardless, my impression of Salvatore's stuff:
- early novels were a great story, but with weak characterization and too-large-time-jumps
- middle novels were usually good characterization (with a few aberrant moments), but with okay story (with a few aberrant moments)
- later novels (that I've read) were just weird characterization ("Wait, why did s/he do that again?") (mixed with good and comprehensible moments and arbitrary (g/m)ary s(t)u(e) moments), and interesting premises
- I've not read the current novels, but I've read that a lot of people got killed off for little reason other than, "4E"

That and he's got such a devotion to the mechanics, whatever they are (good), that he lets it bog down his writing (bad).

In any event, my long assertion (maybe even in this thread, I don't recall) is that for a generic D&D movie (as opposed to a Drizzt movie or something similar), at least in a 3.X-style world, Sons of Gruumsh could make an amazing D&D movie. It can show off social encounters, combat encounters, magic encounters, group dynamics, traps, and pretty much most things fairly well, it ends with the acquisition of a minor artifact, and it shows off not only the Forgotten Realms setting, but also most of what can (and usually should) go into a D&D adventure covered rather well.

(It should be noted: Sons of Gruumsh isn't "the best module evah" or anything like that. It's just that it's so classic in D&D terms. It really has everything you could want to represent D&D as, well, D&D.)

(The Twilight Tomb is my second-favorite for such purposes, though it's much, much more "dungeony" and probably hard to "get" for most non-players. It's basically only my "favorite" because it's so much fun, but I really don't think it'd make a good movie.)

Eberron (specifically the Forgotten Forge from the campaign setting book) might make a great thing, too, including a more diverse array of styles.

If it's 4E-style, one of the most awesome story-based openers I've ever seen takes place in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. So daggum cool. I'm not sure if it'd make a good movie. Maybe something like Seekers of the Ashen Crown or Scepter Tower of Spellgaunt. Maybe something revolving around Hammerfast? I couldn't say for sure. Not too familiar with published adventures.

I'd say that Sons of Gruumsh could actually be rather easily converted to any system, though. There's nothing in it that's "definitively 3.X" other than it was published under 3.X and some of the suggested solutions don't work in other systems (though many will, and other options appear in other systems that wouldn't in 3.X).

One of the better aspects of it, is that it's so neutral in regards to so much, despite having so many iconic elements. No Elminster; no Drizzt; technically Forgotten Realms, but in the Moonsea... but not the part controlled by the Zhents or the Black Network; revolving around easily recognized enemies (orcs) and not-so-easily recognized enemies (politics); set in a grimy, powerful, but in-need-of-heroes and extremely wealthy city on the edge of a wilderness; and so on.

The real problem with getting Sons of Gruumsh (or anything like it) off the ground is a combination of money and dedication. I really doubt someone would put the finances necessary to make it look as good as it needs to. And, make no mistake, it needs to look Lord of the Rings good. Fantasy's biggest failure is the difficulty to make it "look" good. Science Fiction often shares this, but has a few 'tricks' to get around this - notably the utilization of "fake tech" props that can be relatively easily reproduced. Fantasy lacks that entirely, and thus has a bigger budget that's harder to sell.

I'd recommend me for the job, since I'm passionate about it... but in the end, I'm not qualified and would probably make a mess.

EDIT: and while Fake Healer's on the topic: I've never understood the Harper hate. Never. I know what people will say. They've said it before. It doesn't matter. I can't understand, emotionally or intellectually (despite knowing intellectually) why people hate the Harpers as an organization. I get why they might not "like" them, or something, or that it's just not to their taste. But, "they ruin the setting" or "they're dead weight" or "they obviate the need for heroes" has always rung false to me. Similar observations apply about Elminster and the Chosen. ANYWAY /rant. Sorry.

Sovereign Court

Fabius Maximus wrote:
Hama wrote:
Why? He is not a horrible writer, aside from the almost pornographic ways he describes every sword swing which annoys me, and honestly, Drizzt is his baby. He deserves to be included in the creative process. Plus, his descriptions of Menzobarranzan are breathtaking. Plus i love his dwarves.
Are you kidding? Salvatore is terrible. His stories are trite and his characters stereotypes that barely develop. His recent decision to reincarnate Drizzt's companions is so awful that I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Maybe its because I've stopped reading Drizzt novels after the Hunter's blades trilogy (i do not intend to give Hasbro a single dime of my money, ever again), and i honestly couldn't care less about the 4E realms. So my experience with Drizzt is largely very positive. Although he became a bit too angsty in the latter books.


Hama wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Hama wrote:
Why? He is not a horrible writer, aside from the almost pornographic ways he describes every sword swing which annoys me, and honestly, Drizzt is his baby. He deserves to be included in the creative process. Plus, his descriptions of Menzobarranzan are breathtaking. Plus i love his dwarves.
Are you kidding? Salvatore is terrible. His stories are trite and his characters stereotypes that barely develop. His recent decision to reincarnate Drizzt's companions is so awful that I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Maybe its because I've stopped reading Drizzt novels after the Hunter's blades trilogy (i do not intend to give Hasbro a single dime of my money, ever again), and i honestly couldn't care less about the 4E realms. So my experience with Drizzt is largely very positive. Although he became a bit too angsty in the latter books.

Drizzt was always angst-ridden and whiny, except for the Crystal Shard series (which was written first), where he was a psychotic killer gleefully butchering hundreds of enemies. Except for that one drastic change in character, he didn't develop at all. Nor did the other characters. The Cleric Quintet is as bad.

I know that the character is relatable for people who share his mindset (I was in that position once, too, or else I wouldn't have read so many of the books), but the audience for fantasy media does not consist out of teenagers feeling outcast anymore (or they have outgrown that kind of thing). I also know that nostalgia is a powerful thing. But you have to win over people who did not read the books and are going to find Drizzt terribly annoying. A movie about him is not going to work.

Tacticslion:

Cattie-Brie, Bruenor and Wulfgar have made a deal with some god or other to be reincarnated back into new bodies for 5e Forgotten Realms.

The Exchange

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Hey Fabius, they already did make movies about Drizzt and they did great...they were just called "Blade" and "Riddick" and "Transporter" and ....
Same hero, different name and genre, and it works.

Sovereign Court

Yeah, no. Blade is not really angst ridden. Riddick is anything but angst ridden. And Statham's character from Transporter is also not angst ridden.

A movie about Drizzt can work perfectly, because there will be more then a single person deciding things. Like "You know, he seems to angsty in this scene, let's drop this line, and this one, and make him have a more serious face this time"...


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But Bruenor, I was planning to go to Neverwinter for for some power converters!"


Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler?:
So... uh... why, again, is Wulfgar coming back? Bruenor I can get, if the need is strong enough. Cattie-Brie, well, you know, duh, she got the short end of the stick, never got to live her life through, and has Drizzt to go back to. And Wulfgar has... a murdered wife, a deceased child, and... um... I don't know... suck... to go back to. So why would he go back? And not Regis? Whaaaaaaaaaaat? If there was ever one of Drizzt's friends who would go back...

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.


The reincarnating of the supporting cast simply reinforces my thoughts that Drizzt really needs to be put aside, both in novels and in everything else. The early stuff may have been decent, but it's time to move on. His original story has long since been told and no new stories have ever really emerged; even with the 4E stories, it was the same old wanderer in a world that he didn't understand and that didn't understand him. If they were to treat a movie of the original trilogy as a reboot of sorts that gives a few more opportunities for Drizzt to become a bit more multi dimensional over time and less dependent on a supporting cast to drive a story, it might work, but not if they try to follow the novels all the way through.

As for the comparison to the Skywalkers, the same complaints were leveled at the movie versions of them, and even in the original trilogy, Luke was one of the weaker characters in many regards. There are several differences though. First, they were never intended to be "the" main character of the story. Luke was one in a long string of Jedi, and Anakin was always intended, at least in the movies when they finally got made, to disappear and reemerge as a different, more compelling character. Second, the few Star Wars novels I've read actually do a decent job of fleshing out both of them beyond what the movies show; I've never seen a fleshed out version of Drizzt anywhere. Third, their storylines evolve. Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Luke grows enough that he isn't the same character dealing with the precise same problems at the end of the story that he is at the beginning. I've never seen any such evolution for Drizzt. Now, if they make a movie about Drizzt, and use it as an opportunity to actually develop Drizzt, that could make for an interesting movie, but I see either Salvatore, WotC, or Hasbro, if not all of them, having a major problem with that approach, limiting what a movie script could actually do with the character beyond the first trilogy, and thus limiting the ability to capitalize on the character long term.

If they want to do FR, flesh out Volo. You can easily cover all of Fearun in the movies with no shortage of stories. The character by itself is a solid character while leaving lots of room for a fantastic support cast. Best of all, you have the ultimate guide to introduce the Realms to those who know nothing about it.


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Marco Volo! Do a movie based on that adventure trilogy..it was one of my favorites.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.

Spoiler:
Might have been Regis, too, or Regis instead of Wulfgar. I didn't read the book, only a summary.

Fabius Maximus wrote:


I know that the character is relatable for people who share his mindset (I was in that position once, too, or else I wouldn't have read so many of the books), but the audience for fantasy media does not consist out of teenagers feeling outcast anymore (or they have outgrown that kind of thing).

Cough "Twilight" Cough


Drizzt is a great character with lots of good development in his stories.
Just becasue a bunch of geek neck beards turned him into a meme, doesn't mean the source material is bad.
I think half the people who hate on Drizzt nowadays probably are only doing it because it's fashionable to do so.


Hmm, where have I seen this argument before.... =)


Great minds?


I think it was Adamantine Dragon who said the same thing about people hating on Tolkien.

Odd comparison there but I couldn't help but notice the similarity of the wording....


sunshadow21 wrote:
Stuff

Drizzt's stats have been published a few times over the years, both in 2nd ED Advanced and 3.5/3.5 DnD.

Even the most cursory google search yielded this.

So...what?


Orthos wrote:

I think it was Adamantine Dragon who said the same thing about people hating on Tolkien.

Odd comparison there but I couldn't help but notice the similarity of the wording....

Some truths are universal, I guess ;)


One day justice will be served.


"But TODAY IS NOT THAT DAY!!!"

What? Can't no demon o' hatred 'n' rage be quotin' no Tolkien up in heaz?


Fabius Maximus wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, thanks, Fabius!

EDIT: and also, Kryzbyn, for finding the link. Neat, I'd forgotten. Hm... I wonder if that's why the Realms were named that...
(Also worth noting, he's long been cited as a "ranger", but he has, like, 5 out of 15 levels. It's more like a prestige class than anything, really.


Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, thanks, Fabius!

EDIT: and also, Kryzbyn, for finding the link. Neat, I'd forgotten. Hm... I wonder if that's why the Realms were named that...
(Also worth noting, he's long been cited as a "ranger", but he has, like, 5 out of 15 levels. It's more like a prestige class than anything, really.

They had nerfed the ranger somewhat in 3.0 compared to 1st and 2nd so they needed all the fighter feats to explain all his accomplishments. Plus, as a backstory it works better, as in Mezzo he was solely trained as a fighter, only gaining ranger levels once he reached the surface. The barbarian level seems a bit bizarre

Sovereign Court

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Black Dougal wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, thanks, Fabius!

EDIT: and also, Kryzbyn, for finding the link. Neat, I'd forgotten. Hm... I wonder if that's why the Realms were named that...
(Also worth noting, he's long been cited as a "ranger", but he has, like, 5 out of 15 levels. It's more like a prestige class than anything, really.
They had nerfed the ranger somewhat in 3.0 compared to 1st and 2nd so they needed all the fighter feats to explain all his accomplishments. Plus, as a backstory it works better, as in Mezzo he was solely trained as a fighter, only gaining ranger levels once he reached the surface. The barbarian level seems a bit bizarre

The exile novel from the Dark Elf trilogy. He lived alone with Guen and went a little nuts with isolation, and learned to channel his rage to get bonus strength and toughness....i mean to become the hunter.


Hama wrote:
Black Dougal wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Fabius Maximus wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, as an author who had mandated fiat that my characters die, I'd hop the first train back to "resurrection-ville" I could, too, though in-character, without some strong motivation, some of those seem "iffy".

Hm. I need to check out the latest 5E packet, too.

** spoiler omitted **

Ah, thanks, Fabius!

EDIT: and also, Kryzbyn, for finding the link. Neat, I'd forgotten. Hm... I wonder if that's why the Realms were named that...
(Also worth noting, he's long been cited as a "ranger", but he has, like, 5 out of 15 levels. It's more like a prestige class than anything, really.
They had nerfed the ranger somewhat in 3.0 compared to 1st and 2nd so they needed all the fighter feats to explain all his accomplishments. Plus, as a backstory it works better, as in Mezzo he was solely trained as a fighter, only gaining ranger levels once he reached the surface. The barbarian level seems a bit bizarre
The exile novel from the Dark Elf trilogy. He lived alone with Guen and went a little nuts with isolation, and learned to channel his rage to get bonus strength and toughness....i mean to become the hunter.

EDIT: intended to say this originally: yes, of course you're both right. I actually would have suggested taking the Ranger Prestige class route, myself. :)

Yeah, exactly. Although it's funny, as he's been described as staying in the kind of "fugue state" of The Hunter for days at a time, if I recall correctly. Was that even possible in 3.X?

Obviously it's not in Pathfinder anymore.

Still, despite understanding it, it felt a little odd to me.

Of course, not as much as Cale seeming to just go ballistic with no apparent function why at the time. (He was noted as never having barbarian levels.) Those were awesome stories anyway.


While Drizzt certainly is the most well known character from the Forgotten Realms (with Elminster being a close second), there are several other characters/stories that might be just as successful if translated to the silver screen - although the Icewind Dale Trilogy would also be a good starting point.
The Finder's Stone trilogy
The Moonshae Trilogy
The Cleric Quintet (with the added comic relief of the Bouldershoulder brothers)
The Avatar Series - less likely since it pertains to an earlier and very specific series of events.
Any of Elaine Cunningham's Harper Series books (later reprinted as Songs & Swords) - Arilyn Moonblade and Danilo Thann would make a great on-screen duo.

The Dragonlance Saga would do very well translated to the screen, but WotC/Hasbro might be more interested in Forgotten Realms.


Doing Moonshae would be AWESOME!

Sovereign Court

Elaine Cunningham is a horrible writer. Especially when she doesn't even look up the rules of the world she is writing for and switches conjuration and evocation schools.


Tacticslion wrote:


I'm not really up on my latest Drizzt stuff, so... what? Is Drizzt evil without being called evil now? 'Cause, odd as he was sometimes, he was never what I'd call 'evil', ever.

I just meant his race was evil but he is not.

Tacticslion wrote:
I agree with the rest of your post, however.

Thanks!


Kryzbyn wrote:


Drizzt is a great character with lots of good development in his stories.
Just becasue a bunch of geek neck beards turned him into a meme, doesn't mean the source material is bad.
I think half the people who hate on Drizzt nowadays probably are only doing it because it's fashionable to do so.

I was hating Drizzt long before it was cool. ;)

Actually, I don't hate Drizzt. It would be a bit futile to hate a fictional character. I only detest Salvatore's writing and want to offer a counterpoint to those people who think it's the bee's knees. It certainly is legitimate to like reading his books. You just gotta recognize that there is much better stuff out there.

MMCJawa wrote:
Cough "Twilight" Cough

Not really. It was specifically written for young adult girls and women who never grew up. I'd also venture that the fantasy theme of these books is pretty unimportant. Vampire romance stories exist in a genre of their own. There are also a portion of readers who know it's crap, but as I said, that's fine.

I'd rather look at Harry Potter for an example. The intended target group is much wider that just kids, because the series is dealing with more and more adult issues as it progresses. Twilight never does.

An alternative for a good FR story to adapt into a movie would be Kemp's about Erevis Cale. But I'd rather go for Dragonlance.


"Better stuff out there" is Dragonlance?

Wow.


Hama wrote:
Elaine Cunningham is a horrible writer. Especially when she doesn't even look up the rules of the world she is writing for and switches conjuration and evocation schools.

Nerd!!!

:)

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think any writer that tries too hard to make sure their writing is following the rules of a system is destined to turn out nothing but crap.


Hama wrote:
Elaine Cunningham is a horrible writer. Especially when she doesn't even look up the rules of the world she is writing for and switches conjuration and evocation schools.

Disliking Elaine's books is certainly your prerogative.

Saying that she's a horrible writer moves beyond the subjective, though, and I certainly think it's a very unfair categorization.
Writing a book that's blow for blow the novelization of a gaming session would indeed make for a poor book. Luckily that's not what Elaine (or any of the other authors of any FR book I've read) does.
Again, feel free to feel that Elaine's books aren't to your taste. That doesn't make her a horrible writer.

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