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No, because it is not a generic bonus that can apply to anything.We need to clear that up because the Alchemist class ability bonus is also not a generic bonus that can apply to anything for craft alchemy, but I get dirty looks when I mention that or enforce it.
That's because what else would an alchemist be doing to earn day job money, if not create alchemical items?
Whereas, defining your farmstead as a lizard farmstead seems a bit over the top.
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That's because what else would an alchemist be doing to earn day job money, if not create alchemical items?Whereas, defining your farmstead as a lizard farmstead seems a bit over the top.
I don't find that argument sufficent enough to get over that fact it still does not apply to all Achemy Checks.
Your argument still does not change that important fact.
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I choose to apply the common sense rule that's in Guide 4.3.
That is fine, as long as you have no problem with the player above using common sense that since his pc has a bonus Handle Animal on reptiles that he makes a living with reptiles. It is only common sense since he is good at it.
My point is, we can't give one and take away the other when it is the same thing.
I have no problem with allowing it, as long as the rule is consistent.
To answer your original question about what else an alchemist could be using craft alchemy for in a day Job. He can be making Poisons, or make a living identifying poisons as an example. There is more to Craft Alchemey then just making alchemical items.
"My point is, we can't give one and take away the other when it is the same thing."
Yes we can. We just shouldn't.
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I choose to apply the common sense rule that's in Guide 4.3.That is fine, as long as you have no problem with the player above using common sense that since his pc has a bonus Handle Animal on reptiles that he makes a living with reptiles. It is only common sense since he is good at it.
My point is, we can't give one and take away the other when it is the same thing.
I have no problem with allowing it, as long as the rule is consistent.
To answer your original question about what else an alchemist could be using craft alchemy for in a day Job. He can be making Poisons, or make a living identifying poisons as an example. There is more to Craft Alchemey then just making alchemical items.
I don't see common sense being capricious or unfair.
It simply makes sense that an alchemist is going to earn his living at making alchemical items. Bonus allowed.
It does not make sense that someone earns their living with a reptile farm. Bonus not allowed.
Its simple common sense. It is not arbitrary, it is not capricious, and it is not unfair.
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I choose to apply the common sense rule that's in Guide 4.3.That is fine, as long as you have no problem with the player above using common sense that since his pc has a bonus Handle Animal on reptiles that he makes a living with reptiles. It is only common sense since he is good at it.
My point is, we can't give one and take away the other when it is the same thing.
I have no problem with allowing it, as long as the rule is consistent.
To answer your original question about what else an alchemist could be using craft alchemy for in a day Job. He can be making Poisons, or make a living identifying poisons as an example. There is more to Craft Alchemey then just making alchemical items.
I don't see common sense being capricious or unfair.
It simply makes sense that an alchemist is going to earn his living at making alchemical items. Bonus allowed.
It does not make sense that someone earns their living with a reptile farm. Bonus not allowed.
Its simple common sense. It is not arbitrary, it is not capricious, and it is not unfair.
Google the phrase "reptile farm". People make a living with reptile farms in the real world. Why not on Golarion?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It does not make sense that someone earns their living with a reptile farm.
For a moment I was thinking that if a farmer had an inborn knack for dealing with a particular animal, that maybe he'd choose to structure his farming career around interacting with that kind of animal.
You know, sort of like how a horse whisperer would choose to work with horses instead of chickens, or how someone with a good head for math might choose to be an accountant instead of a painter, and so forth.
But then my common sense kicked in, and I decided that no, people with a knack for a certain thing just sort of cross their fingers and hope that the worldwide random distribution of career details will maybe stick them with that thing they're good at, but we have no mechanic for determining if a PC is one of those lucky ones, so no bonus.
Hooray for common sense!
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So let’s look at a couple of things here.
Using Common sense - This is an opinion thing but I always viewed that sentence as allowing the GM to use common sense to interpret a rule when interpretation is warranted and a rule is not clear and not an open invitation for a GM to change a rule because it does not make sense to them.
That said let's actually look at the rule for day job.
Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits effect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain.
Nowhere in that description does it state that the Permanent bonus needs to represent everything you can do with that skill. So where are any of us getting that idea anyway? Has that been stated somewhere by Mike?
The FAQ does not say otherwise and neither does Mike clarification posts. Based on that alone both the alchemist ability and the ability mentioned in the OP above should work since they are both permanent.
people with a knack for a certain thing just sort of cross their fingers and hope that the worldwide random distribution of career details will maybe stick them with that thing they're good at
Do you doubt the judgement of the Career Chip, citizen?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What have I started?You posted on an internet forum. You should know by now that there's always a 15% chance of starting a flame war with any internet post. You must have rolled 1-3 on the internet d20.
You're using a d20 instead of percentile dice for a % check?!
BADWROOOOONG!!!
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Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits effect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain.
I stand corrected. The Reptile bonus for Nagaji would apply to Day Jobs if you are able to get Handle Animal as a Day Job.
Go Crocodile Farms!
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I stand corrected. The Reptile bonus for Nagaji would apply to Day Jobs if you are able to get Handle Animal as a Day Job.
Go Crocodile Farms!
I am curious why we added the extra restriction that does not exist, to the day job roll?
Has Mike or Mark posted it somewhere and not update the FAQ or Guide?
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I think it was an attitude that generally became a favored prevailing attitude, when discussing whether certain spells or other non-permanent effects affect the day job roll.
The response when asked if some spells would work was that they don't because its not a permanent effect.
So then many folks ran with that comment to include every single possible effect on whether it was "permanently affecting all aspects of that particular skill."
A Nagaji PC has ranks in handle animal and has the farmstead vanity. When making a day job roll, does the player get to add the racial bonus to handle animal when dealing with reptiles?
Is this PC a Druid?
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A Nagaji PC has ranks in handle animal and has the farmstead vanity. When making a day job roll, does the player get to add the racial bonus to handle animal when dealing with reptiles?Is this PC a Druid?
Does it matter?
The handle animal bonus he's talking about when dealing with reptiles is something that all members of the nagaji race get.
A Nagaji PC has ranks in handle animal and has the farmstead vanity. When making a day job roll, does the player get to add the racial bonus to handle animal when dealing with reptiles?Is this PC a Druid?Does it matter?
The handle animal bonus he's talking about when dealing with reptiles is something that all members of the nagaji race get.
Wow, my first post and I get this kind of response. Welcome to paizo.com!
I'll wait for the OP to answer.
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Is this PC a Druid?Does it matter?
The handle animal bonus he's talking about when dealing with reptiles is something that all members of the nagaji race get.
Wow, my first post and I get this kind of response. Welcome to paizo.com!
I'll wait for the OP to answer.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. It seems like you might be indicating that Fromper's response was rude. Which I really don't think it was. And if you did think it was rude, welcome not to Paizo.com, but to the Internet as a whole, because you're in for a bumpy ride.
Even if it was rude--which again, I don't think it was--how would this being your first post matter? Should we click through the name of every single poster we don't recognize--which will be most of them--to make sure they have a set number of posts before we respond to them the same way we would respond to anyone else? If so, what is the number that we should check for?
And finally, regardless of your opinion of tone, it was a legitimate question. The character's class is irrelevant to this particular question.
I don't feel its irrelevant. Otherwise I may not have asked.
Within the purity of the elements and the order of the wilds lingers a power beyond the marvels of civilization. Furtive yet undeniable, these primal magics are guarded over by servants of philosophical balance known as druids. Allies to beasts and manipulators of nature, these often misunderstood protectors of the wild strive to shield their lands from all who would threaten them and prove the might of the wilds to those who lock themselves behind city walls. Rewarded for their devotion with incredible powers, druids gain unparalleled shape-shifting abilities, the companionship of mighty beasts, and the power to call upon nature's wrath. The mightiest temper powers akin to storms, earthquakes, and volcanoes with primeval wisdom long abandoned and forgotten by civilization.
Screwing up the lives of lizards by corralling them into some crappy farm isn't my idea of a Druid. But YMMV.
That is all I was attempting to suss out before I got my head bit off. If only I was a lizard and could regrow a new head.
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I personally (this is far from official) see no problem with folks working their always-on/permanent bonus to their day job.
Handle Animal is a skill that is rarely seen and rarely abused, this I imagine it's rare to see anyone with more than +10 in it, versus say Diplomacy or Knowledge (local).
I think it's great if someone playing a nagaji goes as far as to come up with creative "fluff" at the table about how he raises lizards on his farm - whether for eating, riding... milking? I can only see great roleplay come from meeting the nagaji farmer at a table and making conversation about the trials and tribulations of his lizard-farm, whether he be wrestling crocodiles to make boots or extracting venom from vipers for a poisoner's guild.
Disallowing such things means that the above is much less likely to happen - the player bites his nails and frets over whether he should have this great "fluff" concept (and it was what, an extra +1 that led to this creative exploration?) or just tosses it all aside, gets a caravan and puts his ranks into Diplomacy.
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I think it's great if someone playing a nagaji goes as far as to come up with creative "fluff" at the table about how he raises lizards on his farm - whether for eating, riding... milking? I can only see great roleplay come from meeting the nagaji farmer at a table and making conversation about the trials and tribulations of his lizard-farm, whether he be wrestling crocodiles to make boots or extracting venom from vipers for a poisoner's guild.
By definition, reptiles couldn't be milked. Eggs though. Eggs would be an option :)
By definition, reptiles couldn't be milked. Eggs though. Eggs would be an option :)I think it's great if someone playing a nagaji goes as far as to come up with creative "fluff" at the table about how he raises lizards on his farm - whether for eating, riding... milking? I can only see great roleplay come from meeting the nagaji farmer at a table and making conversation about the trials and tribulations of his lizard-farm, whether he be wrestling crocodiles to make boots or extracting venom from vipers for a poisoner's guild.
I kind of feel that in a weird place like Golarian, the typical 'laws' of nature and logic are kind of just guidelines.
