Sorcerer Activating Wizard Scribed Scroll


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere before, but I couldn't find it.

I'm playing a 5th level Wizard and another PC is a 5th level Sorcerer. I can cast 3rd level spells, but he can't yet as per the spell tables. If my wizard scribes a scroll of a 3rd level spell at caster level 5th, would the sorcerer be able to activate it with no checks required?

Looking at the rules-as-written, it looks that way since it's the same type of spell, he has the caster level of the scroll, and he has the requisite Charisma to cast a 3rd level spell. But I'm worried that I might be missing some requirement, since he can't cast 3rd level spells on his own yet.


if the CL of the scroll is above his CL, he has to make a Caster Level Check (d20 + CL) against a DC of 1+ the scroll's CL.


Nope, actually being able to cast spells of that level doesn't seem to be required. It's a sneaky way to get a sorcerer access to spells before he can cast them, but it ain't exactly cheap.

Wands have the same restriction and it has been answered that, for example, Paladins can use a wand of Cure X Wounds before they are able to cast it (a level 1 paladin cannot cast any spells but he can still use a wand of Cure X Wounds), so they've set a precedent that being able to cast the spell is not a requirement for spell trigger items, just having it on the class list is enough.


Actually, DM Blake, master marshmallow is correct.
Core Rulebook, page 458, Spell Completion, fifth sentence: "To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already."
Also, Core Rulebook, page 490, Scrolls, Activate the Spell, third paragraph, second sentence: "If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check [DC = scroll's caster level + 1] to cast the spell successfully."
The requirements for wands do not work for scrolls as they are different types of items.
That being said, however, I don't see any problems with your sorcerer gaining access to spells he couldn't ordinarily cast just at the moment due to insufficient caster level as long as he doesn't screw up his caster level check and then fail a DC 5 Wisdom check.
Should work good.


What is DM Blake saying that contradicts Master Marshmallow? (WHAT A LINE!)
The issue is NOT if the scroll is higher CL than the Sorceror, the OP specifically wrote that it is exactly the same CL.

The issue is that the RAW doesn't quite match up between the Magic and Magic Item (Scroll) sections:

Quote:

To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). (...)
The user must have the spell on her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully.

The bolded parts conflict, because exactly as in the OP's example, the CL can be sufficient (5th) but one character may not yet be able to cast that level of spell (due to 1 class level delay in case of Wizard/Sorceror, or both class level delays and/or spell level delays when considering Bard/Magus/Summoner vs. Wizard/Sorc).

In this case, I will defer to the more detailed info in the Magical Item: Scroll rules, especially since that is the section that actually details the chance of failure. ...For our case (CL is sufficient, but don't have access to spell level yet) there is no specific chance of failure given, even if the Magic chapter SUGGEST there is some chance of failure. So basically, the general Spell Completion rules are poorly/misleadingly written, but where the 'meat' of the rules are actually detailed, there's nothing preventing the OP's scenario (Sorc/Wiz) from working. One line suggesting that there is some vague, indefinite chance of failure isn't enough to impose an actual chance of failure... Especially when there is another rule explicitly saying that the OPs scenario is sufficient to AUTOMATICALLY ACTIVATE IT WITHOUT A CHECK.

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