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Is R’lyeh on Earth?
Yes.
Creative Director
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But yes. R'lyeh is on Earth. It's also certainly got portals to other planets within it... but I'm not a big fan of it "existing" on multiple planets. The fact that it's on Earth is kinda cool, I think.
Cthulhu's dreams can reach out to any world, in any event, so him being on Earth doesn't mean he can't get you.
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It is well established that R'lyeh is on Earth in Lovecraft's The Call of Cthulhu, wherein are given latitude and longitude coordinates.
Now, if a navy depth charges the place, they're in for a rather rude surprise...
What may be the case, however, is that R'lyeh may be a jumbo-sized version of Baba Yaga's infamous Hut, able to traverse worlds throughout the Dark Tapestry.
After all, not even the Necronomicon is infallible... not even the original work. ;)
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LazarX, the thing is, despite the fact that it's been labeled the "Cthulhu" Mythos, Cthulhu himself isn't overly important in it. Both from the writings of Lovecraft and Paizo's take on the Mythos, Great Old Ones don't seem to be that uncommon...it seems like every planet has at least a few of them lurking around. Not to mention that they are to the Outer Gods as ants are to them.
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I see that interpretation as kind of geo-centring the Mythos in a way that Lovecraft did not intend it to. Earth isn't that important to the Big C and the others, it's just another sand castle to kick over as an idle pastime.But yes. R'lyeh is on Earth. It's also certainly got portals to other planets within it... but I'm not a big fan of it "existing" on multiple planets. The fact that it's on Earth is kinda cool, I think.
Cthulhu's dreams can reach out to any world, in any event, so him being on Earth doesn't mean he can't get you.
I see it as the exact opposite—by keeping Cthulhu on Earth, that adheres to Lovecraft's stories and treats them as an important a part of canon as anything else in Golarion.
Just about everything involving the Old Gods tends to be the kind of thing that would drive Euclid gibbering insane.
There's nothing preventing from being the kind of city that's multi-present. so it could be on Earth and a dozen other worlds at the same time, or times. In fact, to contain an Old One, it would have to be.
Exactly this.
The trick with Lovecraftian stuff - and anything in a similar vein - is that it really confiscates game mechanic and renders it often unnecessary. I don't think you are ever meant to worry overmuch about "where" or "when" things are, since their nature is antithetic to our reality in the first place. That's why Call of Cthulhu has existed so long and done so well with a very light mechanic - because it's not about cold hard numbers, hard facts, or whether a submerged multi-dimensional island is anchored to any one place.
You just go with the flow.
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It's actually not all that complicated. Lovecraft was pretty specific about where R'lyeh was located... down to exact latitude and longitude coordinates for it.
A location that puts it pretty close to the oceanic pole of inaccessibility, as it turns out, which is another way of saying "It's at the most inaccessible part of the planet for us land-dwellers." Which is pretty cool, I think!
Anyway... R'lyeh is on Earth, and we're not really using any of Derleth's additions to the mythos anyway, since that content's not in the public domain. Among other reasons.
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Who needs some piddly old one in your ocean when you've got the freakin' god of destroying everything in your planetary core?
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Yes and the fact it is in the Pacific Ocean were all those "Kaiju" will enter our world from in the movie "Pacific Rim" is interesting as well.
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It's a pan-dimensional place. Time-space tended to warp as humans neared it. Lots of non-euclidian geometry and stuff.
That means that while the city is definitely on earth, it might also be in other places too, even simultaneously.
R'yleh is just a 'burb anyway. I mean Egypt is on Earth and yet many parts of Egyptian culture have wandered into Pathfinder and made themselves at home. There can be the same thing on other places. It more depends on how you're going to use the Cthulhu Mythos in your games.
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I don't see it as being pan-dimensional. Just because it's got non-Euclidean geometry, that doesn't mean it exists everywhere. Cthulhu and his spawn have wings and starflight, and Lovecraft makes mention of them having flown to Earth. Why do that if they could have just willed R'lyeh there?
Yeah; this is pretty much my take as well.
Why couldn't it be pan-dimensional? It has portals to other places and dimensions, right? Who's to say that the Old Ones couldn't just will the city around willy-nilly? It could be that the part of the city humans can perceive is just the part that happens to be in our dimension. If it doesn't exist in multiple places/dimensions, then why would humans perceive all the unnatural, impossible geometry?
I guess it could be that the warping of timespace is just something that occurs around, or because of, Cthulhu, but that seems to narrow the storytelling options a bit. I prefer the option that opens the most possibilities.
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Why couldn't it be pan-dimensional? It has portals to other places and dimensions, right? Who's to say that the Old Ones couldn't just will the city around willy-nilly? It could be that the part of the city humans can perceive is just the part that happens to be in our dimension. If it doesn't exist in multiple places/dimensions, then why would humans perceive all the unnatural, impossible geometry?
I guess it could be that the warping of timespace is just something that occurs around, or because of, Cthulhu, but that seems to narrow the storytelling options a bit. I prefer the option that opens the most possibilities.
Two reasons:
1) In the original stories there's not much to support it being a city full of portals or existing simultaneously on multiple planets.
2) I think R'lyeh is diminished if there's multiple copies/incarnations. I LIKE the fact that it's on Earth. There's plenty of spooky locations on Golarion as it is.
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Yep, it is on Earth. Right near this spot.
>:)
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I have it on good authority (The Onion) that R'lyeh is sunken in Lake Mendota and Cthulhu has been known to wander the University of Wisconsin steam tunnels. And The Onion wouldn't lie to me.
But is it really there if the stars aren’t right?
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But is it really there if the stars aren’t right?
If you just make it right later it does
But is it really there if the stars aren’t right?
It's still there. All the stars affect is the liveliness of its inhabitants.
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R'lyeh, much like Groove, is in the heart.
The only minor problem I have with this is that I know you folks have a real lovefest for the Mythos. I just really don't think it's that good an idea to tie Earth up with Golarion, even if it's Victorian Earth. A one off visit in an AP is fine, but it really shouldn't become a regular feature of the campaign world.Why couldn't it be pan-dimensional? It has portals to other places and dimensions, right? Who's to say that the Old Ones couldn't just will the city around willy-nilly? It could be that the part of the city humans can perceive is just the part that happens to be in our dimension. If it doesn't exist in multiple places/dimensions, then why would humans perceive all the unnatural, impossible geometry?
I guess it could be that the warping of timespace is just something that occurs around, or because of, Cthulhu, but that seems to narrow the storytelling options a bit. I prefer the option that opens the most possibilities.
Two reasons:
1) In the original stories there's not much to support it being a city full of portals or existing simultaneously on multiple planets.
2) I think R'lyeh is diminished if there's multiple copies/incarnations. I LIKE the fact that it's on Earth. There's plenty of spooky locations on Golarion as it is.
There isn't much of anything on R'lyeh in the original material other than that it exists and it is where Great Cthulhu zonks out for his extended naps.
Having R'lyeh serve as a combination of "chicken hut"/TARDIS, 'interdimensional/interplanetary waystation' and 'prison/power siphon' on Cthulhu has its benefits. At that depth of the ocean, no normal adventurer is going to survive an unfortunate choice of portal to walk though. It is nigh-indestructible - the aboleths could drop meteors on it from orbit all they want - Cthulhu / some other being of equivalent or greater power could simply will the location to 'phase out' for a time until the smoke clears.
I think that R'lyeh being kept entirely to its source material is too restrictive. Mostly due to the source material not saying much of anything.
Actually, I'm fine with R'lyeh just being a city of unnatural geometries.
When it's all said and done, R'lyeh's just a summer home.
It's the thing that's chilling there that's important.
I'm not entirely sure what dropping a meteor on R'lyeh would actually do - I could see it dropping into a crack on a rooftop and never being seen again - but the most that's ever going to accomplish is wake up the immortal dreamer.
It drove people around the world insane simply by waking up. The results of it waking up angry would probably be catastrophic.
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Creative Director
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The only minor problem I have with this is that I know you folks have a real lovefest for the Mythos. I just really don't think it's that good an idea to tie Earth up with Golarion, even if it's Victorian Earth. A one off visit in an AP is fine, but it really shouldn't become a regular feature of the campaign world.
It hasn't. We've had connections to Earth via the mythos for over 5 years, and Golarion's been fine. It will continue to be fine after Bestiary 4, which doesn't mention Earth at all.
And while you call it a "real lovefest," believe it or not we've been pretty sparing with mythos elements. If we weren't, and if we HAD incorporated as much mythos stuff as I personally would have liked, there would be a LOT more in Golarion. I understand that not everyone's into Lovecraft, but more are than aren't as this thread's another example. So... it's in the game, but it's not the FOCUS of everything in the game. Which is, overall, the best way to do it.
Still. Please do a full on Lovecraft, Call of Cthulhu RPG inspired Adventure Path sometime. The most optimistic part of me is hoping Bestiary 4 is groundwork for one next year.
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Still. Please do a full on Lovecraft, Call of Cthulhu RPG inspired Adventure Path sometime. The most optimistic part of me is hoping Bestiary 4 is groundwork for one next year.
I would LOVE to. But I have to build up my skin a bit thicker to deal with the folks who would get all angry about the decision first. As well as convince management it's a good idea. And since when we DO do Lovecraftian stuff, those products tend to sell quite well... shouldn't be a tough sell.
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I would LOVE to. But I have to build up my skin a bit thicker to deal with the folks who would get all angry about the decision first. As well as convince management it's a good idea. And since when we DO do Lovecraftian stuff, those products tend to sell quite well... shouldn't be a tough sell.
I'm not sure if this is comforting, but... if your skin has held up to the Rasputin Must Die backlash, I'm pretty sure you'll do just fine for a Mythos path.
That said, I'm excited about Rasputin Must Die and would love to see a Mythos path. So hopefully that was comforting :)
Cheers!
Landon
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Actually, I'm fine with R'lyeh just being a city of unnatural geometries.
When it's all said and done, R'lyeh's just a summer home.
It's the thing that's chilling there that's important.
I'm not entirely sure what dropping a meteor on R'lyeh would actually do - I could see it dropping into a crack on a rooftop and never being seen again - but the most that's ever going to accomplish is wake up the immortal dreamer.
It drove people around the world insane simply by waking up. The results of it waking up angry would probably be catastrophic.
Dropping a meteor on the middle of the Pacific probably wouldn't do all that much to R'lyeh ... that may even be part and parcel of 'when the stars come right'.
My question, and I hope it doesn't go a bit Out of this thread, is if R'Lyeh is in Earth and most of Lovecraft work is cannon in Golarion's Universe Earth, what about Mars?
H. G. Wells work is public domain and it will be interesting in the future see at least a cameo of the "martians" in a module or AP. I don't know about if also the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs could be added to in that sack, but it would be nice.
My question, and I hope it doesn't go a bit Out of this thread, is if R'Lyeh is in Earth and most of Lovecraft work is cannon in Golarion's Universe Earth, what about Mars?
H. G. Wells work is public domain and it will be interesting in the future see at least a cameo of the "martians" in a module or AP. I don't know about if also the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs could be added to in that sack, but it would be nice.
This is mostly covered already in the Distant Worlds book, to some extent. Although that's Golarion's system specifically, it's basically a combination of Wells', Burroughs', and their contemporaries mixed together (though it does draw more from Burroughs than Wells).
That's something that I'd personally love to see as well, though I doubt it's going to be happening much. Wells specifically isn't as popular as Lovecraft at this time, from what I can tell, though I could see several points of crossover between them, though the mythos/set up is seemingly very different in each.
On a planet orbiting Aldebaran, and wherever the King in Yellow wants it to be.
Contributor
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If we visit the Dreamlands, can we reach Golarion?
Because that would be cool. To sail from Celaphais via the Basalt Pillars of the West to Tian Xia...
And if there are Moonbeasts on Somal, do they ply their trade across intergalactic distances?
Are there Cats from Aucturn? Or Dream Cats from Ulthar, moving unbeknownst to us, in the alleys of Absalom?
Just curious.
Ahem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnJWYaSuDs