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Thanks, you seem to know a fair bit about climatology. Study it, or just scrounge around due to the topic?
Wikipedia mostly.
I read a lot before blogging about climate to give the best advice. After that I just logically, figuring out what happens and then asking what happens after that and then after that.Then you just have to speak with authority and make it sound like you know what you're talking about.
I have been holding this one back for a while now, but no more.
[singing]
"Yippie yi Ohhhhh
Yippie yi yaaaaay
Pathfinder's in the sky"
[/singing]
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I suggest you check out the anime LastExile
The description is misleading on what most the show is about. It is also a bit steam punk.
Dot for interest!
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I suggest you check out the anime LastExile
The description is misleading on what most the show is about. It is also a bit steam punk.
I have seen a few episodes, but I avoided drawing a comparison because I definitely don't want it to be that steampunk. I'm not even wanting it to be as "steampunk" as Eberron. ...Or really any of the comparisons I drew from in my first post, but I had to reference something. ^^' Aside from Allods (and more than that, specifically the League side - the Empire's ships but not city is about as steampunk as I want to go), there aren't a lot of settings with airships that don't have a fair amount of steampunk. I was kind of surprised when I noticed this.
Personal flying machines are going to be rare, and probably tend to be more like the Wright brothers' plane, or other early devices. And anyone who isn't actually the one building it will think it is utterly insane. More fantastic ones will probably draw inspiration from da Vinci. But work at least as well as the Wright flyer.
Also, concerning other races (common ones mentioned earlier), I've gone through and sort of pencilled out how common or rare they're going to be. These are, of course, subject to change but it's a starting point. Note that not all will necessarily be player races.
Common: human, catfolk, goblin*, ifrit, oread, suli, sylph, undine, vanara
Uncommon: duergar*, dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, halfling, hobgoblin, kitsune, kobold*, lizardfolk*, orc*, strix*, syrinx*, wyvaran*
Rare: changeling, dhampir*, drow*, fetchling*, gathlain, svirfneblin*
Non-existant: android, ghoran, gillman, grippli, lashunta, merfolk, wayang, wyrwood
Undecided: aasimar, gnoll, half-orc, kasatha, nagaji, ratfolk, samsarans, tengu, tiefling, vishkanya
* - not intended as a player race
Undecided covers a lot of ground from whether or not I'll have the race here at all to whether it should be common or uncommon. A quick overview (if it isn't mentioned, it's possible for nearly any category though generally not common): gnolls will probably be either common or uncommon (leaning towards the latter), same for half-orcs and tengu (the latter I'm unsure about because I'm going to already have 3 other flying avian races - strix, syrinx, and the new one mentioned previously). Kasatha I probably won't have, but I just haven't made up my mind yet. Vishkanya I like, but can't think of a way to fit them in. Ratfolk, I think should exist, I'm just not sure how common they should be other than I know I don't want them to be as populous as humans or even vanara - partly because that's already a lot of animal-people... ^^'
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I don't suppose anyone would be willing to donate a map, eh?
Doesn't need to be spectacular, publish-worthy quality. Just something I can use as a base to visualize civilization growth, movement, present day nations, etc.
More to avoid someone going ahead and donating something that doesn't mesh well with what I've already established than expecting someone to volunteer, I'll go ahead and summarize the... requirements.
Landmasses range from house-sized to India-sized, the majority ranging between Ireland and Ukraine. Two to five continents of around Australia or Brazil size exist, no more than half of which might be grouped fairly close together and all of which are effectively still. Instead of mapping anything of about Ireland size or smaller, major wind currents and jetstreams are mapped with the understanding that they will be filled (unevenly) with islands of those sizes.
Pretty much all other landmasses follow (possibly shared) circuits or orbits which are mapped in addition to the landmass itself (all of which are positioned as they would be at a certain point in time - either the date the map was made or an established, predetermined date in history). Typical landmass movement is determined entirely by wind currents.
Jester David mentioned a few notes that could come in handy:
High altitude air currents - on average - are pretty steady in the middle latitudes. They either flow East or West. East around the tropic zones, West around the temperate zones, and East again over the Artics.
Large skylands in the middle of bands would likely be pretty consistent and anything around the equator would be really stable.
Smaller islands would gradually drift North or South and then be pushed in the opposite direction, doing a long and irregular figure-eight pattern.
This actually makes for an interesting design for nation building and civilization. You have the stable equatorial band where charts are accurate and there's little drift. Trade is reliable. People can feel safe investing in the time needed to lash together skylands into webs of floating islands.
But the farther North or South you sail the less reliable charts become, the harder large islands become to find. Its less safe but there's a greater chance of undiscovered islands and resources.
Finally, a few reference images (though, of course this is a fantasy setting - don't feel you need to cleave immutably to real world science):
Basic (real world) wind currents and more complete wind current map to show how landmasses and the like affect them. Note that 1) these changes tend to be made by temperature fluctuations more than land shape (well, land shape often causes the temperature fluctuations, so technically...), and 2) big chunks of land being directly in the way will probably affect this world's wind currents more than they do in the real world (largely because big chunks of rock don't tend to be directly in the way). As such, I predict wind patterns in this world will bear more similarities to ocean currents in the real world. So...Simple ocean current map, and not so simple one.
Anyway, I pre-emptively give my infinite gratitude to anyone who volunteers their time and talent for this.
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I'm used to double posting being frowned upon on messageboards, and so when I don't know a particular forum's opinion of it I tend to err on the cautious side. But posts get edit locked after so long, mine tend to be fairly long (in this thread at least), and - at least I think this is the case - I'm adding something to the conversation with each, so...
Anyway, I only mention all of this because I'm really anxious about the fact that I'm triple posting. But moving on to the matter at hand:
Reading over a few different articles I have bookmarked on world building, it seems that coming up with... conflict hooks is a better next step. The history that I've built so far has already introduced one potential: remnants of the ancient genie empire(s) - I haven't decided whether each genie race/species had its own empire, or perhaps multiple empires, or if they all joined together as one empire. The last idea intrigues me because I have vague ideas for a genie caste system in mind (efreeti are the warriors, djinni are leader-priests, janni are diplomats, and so on). Anyway, the ancient genie empires, having since collapsed, allow for adventures based on recovered or hidden artefacts, attempts of existing genies to revive their former glory, and so on.
A few others that I've come up with include an analogue to the East India Trading Company who would probably be a Lawful Neutral organization equally suited to being sponsors of the party, hiring them to perform a myriad of different tasks, or as a corrupt organization trying to stifle freedom and bring order to the world (to pull from Pirates of the Carribean), or simply wanting to create a monopoly on world trade by any means necessary (to pull a bit more from the real world, though still embellishing).
In contrast, a league of pirates hiding out in treacherous land streams would be able to play their foil - an antagonist to parties who work for the EITC analogue, or allies to ones working against it.
Finally, there is a fledgling hobgoblin empire. Once an entire race of efreeti slaves, and then broken into hundreds of squabbling clans after the genies' fall, hobgoblins are trying to unite and found a nation of their own. At risk of sounding anti-Semitic (my sister is Jewish), it bears a certain similarity to Israel (if you squint and turn your head to the side). Some believe this is a good thing as it will help hobgoblins to become civilized and be able to join society as a whole, while others (most) have more of the reaction that you'd expect.
This is just the initial product of my brainstorming, but so far it's already going better than trying to fill in an entirely blank timeline...
I'm considering having some sort of vishkanya nation, as well (I just really like them ^^'). Already well established, not well liked by most, but without much solid basis for this dislike (although quite a lot of intangible basis). Kind of like a good mafia. An entire nation of Villains With Good Publicity, if you will.
Original poster, this is something I have considered myself, specifically re-writing the Skull & Shackles AP to be like this.
Bravo, keep us posted.
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but a world like the one you described in the opening post would probably not have as deep nights as a solid spherical planet. The smaller your continent, the lighter the nights. I think this is important on many levels as this would affect creatures differently. You could even have near daylight at night because the sun is reflecting off of a cloud cover above your continent.
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Nice catch, Threeshades. Midnights would probably be as dark, but that'd probably be it.
On a related note, I already know I'm going to have to sit down and figure out time. The speed that islands move around the planet varies considerably, and so the length of their day does as well. Some islands even go the opposite way around the world potentially causing strange things ranging from effectively being tidally locked to having a "backwards" day, depending on speed. Of course, I'll have to double check and cross reference approximate speeds of these things to be sure. I think that really, most would just end up having a longer day (as combination of daytime and nighttime). And even on the same island, day length could vary quite a bit throughout the year, not just due to seasons (for simplicity, this planet will have an Earth-like tilt), but because some circuits will being going with the planet's rotation (causing the day to be shorter), then towards the equator/poles (causing the day to be about normal), and then back against the planet's rotation (causing the day to be longer).
Traditional ways of measuring time would be all but meaningless except perhaps two: sundials, providing a relative measure of time of day, and something of a planetary absolute, measuring the steady passage of time and probably based on a major trade city on a stable continent (comparative to our use of UTC).
I just want to note that this, along with things like seasons and changing climate in general, are things that I did not even consider until I was well into making this setting. These aspects are probably going to be the most different from our world, even counting magic. They are surely going to be enough of a headache as is, and I already know I'm going to have to make terrible approximations and guesses that would make a professional climatologist's head explode. ...However, if I can find a professional climatologist (or similar), I would welcome any advice they can give - as long as they can distil into manageable bite-sized portions.
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I don't suppose anyone would be willing to donate a map, eh?
Doesn't need to be spectacular, publish-worthy quality. Just something I can use as a base to visualize civilization growth, movement, present day nations, etc.More to avoid someone going ahead and donating something that doesn't mesh well with what I've already established than expecting someone to volunteer, I'll go ahead and summarize the... requirements.
Landmasses range from house-sized to India-sized, the majority ranging between Ireland and Ukraine. Two to five continents of around Australia or Brazil size exist, no more than half of which might be grouped fairly close together and all of which are effectively still. Instead of mapping anything of about Ireland size or smaller, major wind currents and jetstreams are mapped with the understanding that they will be filled (unevenly) with islands of those sizes.
Pretty much all other landmasses follow (possibly shared) circuits or orbits which are mapped in addition to the landmass itself (all of which are positioned as they would be at a certain point in time - either the date the map was made or an established, predetermined date in history). Typical landmass movement is determined entirely by wind currents.
Jester David mentioned a few notes that could come in handy:
...High altitude air currents - on average - are pretty steady in the middle latitudes. They either flow East or West. East around the tropic zones, West around the temperate zones, and East again over the Artics.
Large skylands in the middle of bands would likely be pretty consistent and anything around the equator would be really stable.
Smaller islands would gradually drift North or South and then be pushed in the opposite direction, doing a long and irregular figure-eight pattern.
This actually makes for an interesting design for nation building and civilization. You have the stable equatorial band where charts are accurate and there's little drift. Trade is reliable. People
I do a lot of maps...not professional quality, but not bad...I'd gladly do a continent mass or three for you...maybe some smaller islands...it would be good to sharpen the skills up...you'd have to decide where and how they fit. I'm not sayin' I'm gonna be able to do that. ;)
Looked through this thread and decided to add an idea or two. Have you thought of adding some very tall mountains that actually reach through the cloud layer? That way you have something like old research centers for the escaped mutants?
Also you could add something called the Barrier Peaks on your map.
Grin
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Thanks! I think that just having a few continent shapes could be enough to jump-start things for me. I've just been staring at blank sheets of paper for a couple of days now unable to come up with anything (not that I'm more than amateur at map-making myself).
I have one done...as an example...it's a good sized island, but something shy of continental mass...my thoughts are 200-300 miles across...no roads or settlements added, but basic terrain is there. Do you have a site you'd like me to upload to? I have an ancient webshots account...
Well met. I have plenty of items for this style of campaign. I am currently working on digitizing my Shattered Lands Campaign World right now.
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@EldonG: That works! I could actually see it as one of the larger ones, though. Enough room for a nice big mountain chain and a few large lakes? Easily somewhere around the size of Germany or France. Of course, since I'm trying to figure out how cultures migrated through the centuries, so a world map is kind of necessary (more so than most since most landmasses would have ended up near each other at some point).
Another friend of mine has offered to give it a shot, so I'll see what he scrounges up.
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@EldonG: That works! I could actually see it as one of the larger ones, though. Enough room for a nice big mountain chain and a few large lakes? Easily somewhere around the size of Germany or France. Of course, since I'm trying to figure out how cultures migrated through the centuries, so a world map is kind of necessary (more so than most since most landmasses would have ended up near each other at some point).
Another friend of mine has offered to give it a shot, so I'll see what he scrounges up.
Let me know if you decide you want me to do more. I can do considerably 'cleaner' maps...especially around rivers - that technique leaves a lot of artifacts that can be worked out manually - but it takes time, and I wanted to do a quick example...don't want to spend much time on maps that won't be used, you know. :)
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Perfectly understandable, but no it was fine. However, like I said I've got a friend whose speciality is actually fantasy maps. He was too busy earlier, but things have freed up for him now.
Cool. I've been slowly working on a monstrosity of a map...a main continent some 3k miles across, with a giant sea in the middle...an arm of islands that used to be a huge peninsula, now called the 'Thousand Isles'...a huge sinkhole where a huge meteor hit a large island...lotsa fun, tons of details everywhere. It won't fit on a full-screen Autorealm at 10%, but a lot of details are going in at 100%...so far...and I'll ramp it up from there...
...and then start on the main terrain features, in color. :p
There was a "Shattered World" novel. The WereBear hero fell to the center, which was air, and had to force a vampire to carry him back up. He kept threatening to snap it's neck. Maybe the monsters enslave any of the fair skinned people who fall, and won't let them return for fear of paladins and clerics raining down the vengeance of the upper gods.
Anyway, I have this concept of light stones and heavy stones. Dwarf earth mages create the stones, then trade the ones they do not want to plane voyaging elves. The light stones transfer gravity to the heavy stones across planer lines. The heavy stones would keep shattered earth type worlds from flying apart. The stones, also known as mass thieves in some circles, basicly draw or infect mass by touch, so a light stone could be set into your figure head.
The 9th level spell would create a pound a level of each from a single ton of rock.
You can call it an anti pound of light stone.
Are you saying your flying ships can't overfly a landmass?
If your ships can't overfly, and must approach along a gravity plane, that makes for more interesting mechanics...they literally have to sail off the edge of the world to fly. I would guess that rivers flowing off the sides of the continents become zero-gravity seas, that eventually evaporate and are sucked back over the continent as rain. The ships would 'take off' once they've reached the skysea, and head into the aether. The 'skysea' would surround the islands, and poor ships would navigate around it, or rivers between the various islands, with the aether on all sides.
You could use this without the flying aspect easily, just by having them sail along flowing rivers through space between the sky islands.
Undiscovered rivers and branches to new realms would be great events of note.
An interesting idea that I may steal bits and pieces from however, I want it to actually be an atmosphere, not space. Even in the middle of nowhere, gravity will be pulling down, which was one of the reasons I had for having a planet somewhere down there. I just didn't want people to be living down there, else where would be the fun in that? :p
However, you do bring up a point that I've been trying to solve: I want there to be significance in having "coastal" cities. I want ships to dock in harbours that are as level with the city proper as real world naval harbours are. On the other hand, I don't want to restrict ships to flying on a single plane. The problem lies in the fact that if ships can fly in all three dimensions, then why would they dock right over the infinite depths of open air as opposed to spires rising over the much closer and less deadly land?
One solution I thought of is, pulling from one of the other suggestions someone made, having the planet far below be covered in incredibly hot lava. This could create universal updraughts that aid in the buoyancy of... well, everything. Of course, landmasses would block...
What about buoyant nets to catch people or things who might fall from one of the ships while docked?
You'd basically have the docks and then extending from "land" you'd have this floating net (made of ropes and quite sturdy. not fishing net style) as a safety.
As for why people would dock on the edge of an island? It saves space.
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Taking the above a step further...
if the landmasses/island don't all float on the same level, you could have whole cultures of scavengers that basically live off the jetsam discard from those above them. Might make a great angle to take with goblins
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Taking the above a step further...
if the landmasses/island don't all float on the same level, you could have whole cultures of scavengers that basically live off the jetsam discard from those above them. Might make a great angle to take with goblins
...and paratrooper goblins as the smaller land mass passes overhead. :p
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Paratrooper goblins sounds hilarious...especially since if they are anything like Golarion goblins, I imagine a good chunk of any raiding party forgetting their packs/pulling their chords
I love this idea. I have thought about he same thing. My world building solution was to create a "planet" that was the debris of a collapsed star that was part of a binary system. The major land mass had all sorts of fun it was basically iceberg shaped thus the "surface" of the planet was flat. It had a great rift running though it. It had asteroids, or sky islands floating throughout the sky. My explanation for how they floated was gravity eddies. It was no longer a star but the same ebb and flow of energy that caused solar flares and movement within the corona still churned around. This way the sky islands were held aloft by fluxes in gravity. It also created sky lanes were travel could be faster or slower than the norm.
My Shattered Lands setting has Hobgoblin Raiders inspired who figured out how to move the small land masses as massive self-sustaining ships.
Mine was Islands floating around a God of Life with small stars for light and heat.
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For some reason, I keep thinking about the last Zelda game to come out (The Skyward Sword) when I read through this thread. The idea there is that there are dozens of floating islands up in the sky, part of the original landscape which was ripped away and cast upwards by the gods. They did this to protect the most sacred places of the earth from a great evil that covered the whole planet. Clouds cover the whole world, creating a sort of above-ground underdark except for the floating islands that dwell above the clouds.
Awesome thread, BTW!
I don't know if you have played Bioshock Infinite, but it has some cool ideas how a city in the sky could work. Like different buildings docking to different parts of the city on certain schedules.
Also sky whales. (no those aren't in Bioshock Infinite, but still, sky whales)
As an alternative to 'why things float', you can simply base it on elemental opposition.
The core of the world is air, and earth is repelled from the core. Any solid creatures would also be repelled, so they could fall off an island, but only so far before they stop and drift around haplessly. Flying predators then likely pick them off. Water would be between both memes, so the skyislands could easily be surrounded by water...or perhaps rivers of water flow up and down and sideways between the various islands and the core of the world, circulating in a different manner, bringing up fresh air and water as they pour endlessly around.
I remember that story with the werebear. I forget the name of the book. Had the awesome cloak fighter, the demon lord of spiders, and I've never forgotten the name of Demogorgon, the king of demons ...Sestihaculas!
Heh.
==Bob Drouin
Oh dear... All I can think of is One Piece...
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For some reason, I keep thinking about the last Zelda game to come out (The Skyward Sword)
Ironically, I've played just about every LoZ game up to that one. Not including it. ^^' The funny thing is how many settings this is similar too that I had never heard of until I started looking about for ideas. But, I have yet to find another tabletop campaign setting like it so I'm in the clear there. :p
I don't know if you have played Bioshock Infinite, but it has some cool ideas how a city in the sky could work. Like different buildings docking to different parts of the city on certain schedules.
Also sky whales. (no those aren't in Bioshock Infinite, but still, sky whales)
I played the demo of the first one, but I don't think I'll ever play Infinite. Anyway, that was just a single city and it was being held aloft itself. These cities are normal terrestrial cities - they just happen to be on land that's in the air, so it wouldn't be very similar to Infinite after all. Even aside from the significantly lower technology level. And elves.
I want to see the maps. :p
I assume he's very good. :)
Well, he isn't professional, but he's got a knack for it.
Oh dear... All I can think of is One Piece...
How so? I've never seen it.
Why needs everthing be explained? Teh islands are flying... ships fly by magic/science.. no need for big explanations.
I really like the idea of this campaign setting and will use it in my next game :D
Oh dear... All I can think of is One Piece...
dude...I am so sorry to hear that.
EDIT:(unable to stop thinking of One Piece)ack, it's spreading!!!|
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For some reason, I keep thinking about the last Zelda game to come out (The Skyward Sword)Ironically, I've played just about every LoZ game up to that one. Not including it. ^^' The funny thing is how many settings this is similar too that I had never heard of until I started looking about for ideas. But, I have yet to find another tabletop campaign setting like it so I'm in the clear there. :p
I don't know if you have played Bioshock Infinite, but it has some cool ideas how a city in the sky could work. Like different buildings docking to different parts of the city on certain schedules.
Also sky whales. (no those aren't in Bioshock Infinite, but still, sky whales)
I played the demo of the first one, but I don't think I'll ever play Infinite. Anyway, that was just a single city and it was being held aloft itself. These cities are normal terrestrial cities - they just happen to be on land that's in the air, so it wouldn't be very similar to Infinite after all. Even aside from the significantly lower technology level. And elves.
I want to see the maps. :p
I assume he's very good. :)
Well, he isn't professional, but he's got a knack for it.
Oh dear... All I can think of is One Piece...How so? I've never seen it.
So...do I get to see? :p
Incidentally, my favorite artist's work is my biggest inspiration.
If you have not Watch Treasure planet
The more light stones, the higher it flies. Your flying whales push the land masses around. The sky whales have light stone in their bones. The order of the leviathan are cavaliers that have bonded with a sky whale.
Space Whales? (Doctor Who FTW)
I just found these floating islands...
Thought folk in this thread might be interested in this Aerial Space Station using Teleport, Immoveable Rods, Necklace of Adaptation, Walls of Force etc from the Pathfinder in Space thread...
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So...do I get to see? :p
Incidentally, my favorite artist's work is my biggest inspiration.
Perhaps. ^^ Definitely, if I manage to get all this written up in a book.
If you have not Watch Treasure planet
Oh yeah, I'd say that one provided a little inspiration, too.
I just found these floating islands...
That is exactly what I'm picturing for this setting!
I'm currently working on quick race write-ups. The main ones (geniekin, vanara, possibly catfolk, and the new avian race) will, naturally, get the most detail. I'll spend a short time with the standard races (elves, dwarves, etc.) since they do feature, but not as prominently, and a quick paragraph or two for the other featured races (goblins, vishkanya, hobgoblins, syrinx, etc.)
And this flying ship just showed in my deviant art watch messages.