PFS Ranger and Roc companion

[ShaperMC]

So, I did the research and searched the forums and came up with no official answers to my question, just what seems to be a lot of people saying it's not legal.

I'm looking for where this is explicitly stated (hopefully with a link).

It is stated that a Ranger, in the core rule book, can pick a bird companion. It is stated in the Bestiary that a Roc is a valid Ranger companion. It is stated in the additional rules that the Roc is a legal companion... Yet the popular consensus is that a Roc is not a PFS legal Ranger companion. Where is this explicitly stated?

Thanks :)

[Auke Teeninga]

It's explicitly stated in the FAQ

[Caderyn]

its not any bird, its THE bird animal companion

its partially the problem of using a broadly defined creature type to refer to a single type of animal companion

[Paz]

Yes, you can call your bird AC what you like within reason (kestrel, kite, vulture, condor, falcon, owl, hawk, eagle, buzzard, osprey, etc.) but it always has the generic stats given in the CRB.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Paz wrote:

Yes, you can call your bird AC what you like within reason (kestrel, kite, vulture, condor, falcon, owl, hawk, eagle, buzzard, osprey, etc.) but it always has the generic stats given in the CRB.

Unless there is an animal companion of that specific type that has stats all on its own.

[DrSwordopolis]

However, you can gain access to the druid animal companion list by taking the Beast Master ranger archetype.

[Robert Matthews 166]

You can do what my ranger is going to do and take 1 level of wildblooded sorcerer and go sylvan bloodline. This gives you any animal companion at level 1 sorc. Your ranger levels will stack and make the roc stronger. Roc fits my dwarf ranger so well and because your animal companion comes from the sorceror class you are able to cast enlarge person on it.

[Odea]

Robert Matthews 166 wrote:

You can do what my ranger is going to do and take 1 level of wildblooded sorcerer and go sylvan bloodline. This gives you any animal companion at level 1 sorc. Your ranger levels will stack and make the roc stronger. Roc fits my dwarf ranger so well and because your animal companion comes from the sorceror class you are able to cast enlarge person on it.

Unfortunately this does not work. Link to Mike Brock on the matter (that thread was about Samurai (cavalier) riding a tiger, but the point is, 1 level of druid/sylvan sorcerer/other gives you a level 1 tiger that does not get the benefit of your ranger levels); in other words: Animal Companion stacking must choose from the MOST restrictive list.

Spoiler:

RIP the Gnome Ranger, yet again.

[Mergy]

As Odea says, it doesn't work. In my opinion, it shouldn't work as well. Rangers are meant to have limited options for a companion. Roll with it and enjoy your eagle! They are a surprisingly good fit if you build them well.

[Robert Matthews 166]

Well dang. I guess beastmaster ranger is the way to go then. I imagine i could level dip into druid and go growth domain to cast enlarge person on it. Animal growth is better but so expensive. Go beastmaster OP.

[Dragnmoon]

That needs to be added to his Compilation of message board clarifications for PFS Rulings. Was going to mention that in the thread itself, but it is locked.

[ShaperMC]

Auke Teeninga wrote:

It's explicitly stated in the FAQ

I do not see where it is stated. I do see:

FAQ wrote:

As a ranger, what list of companions can I select my animal companion from?

As a ranger, if you choose an animal companion for your hunter’s bond, you may only select one of the animals listed on page 66 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. No additional companions are legal in Pathfinder Society Organized Play for Rangers except when granted from another legal source.

Then what I see in the Bestiary 1 (which is, as far as I know, "another legal source") is that it is a valid Ranger companion. This book (Bestiary 1) was released after the Core Rulebook, and before the APG (where the Beastmaster archetype comes from), and this companion is approved in the Additional resources.

So, I'm still not seeing how this is explicitly stated. It reads to me like the RAW indicate that the Roc is a legal Ranger companion. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to be clear on this. Does anyone have any links to a more clear ruling on this from the staff? The wording is not clear, and I was hoping for a clearer ruling.

[Nefreet]

Your error is beliving that Bestiary 1 is a "legal source".

[Robert Matthews 166]

Nefreet wrote:

Your error is beliving that Bestiary 1 is a "legal source".

Bestiary 1 is a legal source. However, flavor text does not overpower rules text. The rules for ranger state exactly what animal companions you are allowed to take as a ranger. Unless you go beastmaster, you are limited to what is on the list in the core rulebook.

[Sior]

ShaperMC wrote:

Auke Teeninga wrote:

It's explicitly stated in the FAQ

I do not see where it is stated. I do see:

FAQ wrote:

As a ranger, what list of companions can I select my animal companion from?

As a ranger, if you choose an animal companion for your hunter’s bond, you may only select one of the animals listed on page 66 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. No additional companions are legal in Pathfinder Society Organized Play for Rangers except when granted from another legal source.

Then what I see in the Bestiary 1 (which is, as far as I know, "another legal source") is that it is a valid Ranger companion. This book (Bestiary 1) was released after the Core Rulebook, and before the APG (where the Beastmaster archetype comes from), and this companion is approved in the Additional resources.

So, I'm still not seeing how this is explicitly stated. It reads to me like the RAW indicate that the Roc is a legal Ranger companion. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to be clear on this. Does anyone have any links to a more clear ruling on this from the staff? The wording is not clear, and I was hoping for a clearer ruling.

The wording in the FAQ means only the list in the CRB. If it meant CRB and Bestiary, it would say as such. Rather, the "legal sources" are if you happened to get a boon from a certain set of scenarios which allow your druid or ranger or what have you gain a certain large bird similar to an ostrich. The chronicle sheets are the same "other legal sources" as where you can obtain poisons from without the Poison Use class skill.

[Secane]

We recently have a similar question on mounts and what are legal sources for mounts. After some debate and a PM to Mr Brock.
The answer is "The three classes (Paladin, Cavalier and Nature Oracle.) are still limited to their respective class abilities. (meaning only horses, camels, pony, wolf, boar and dog mounts.)"

In the case of mounts, the Mammoth Rider or the Cavaliers Archetype Beast Rider are examples of "another legal source" as stated in the PFS FAQ.

The books are all sources/resources, but having a book does not mean all options in the books are legal or accessible to use.

For example, having the Advance Race Guide, does not means you have legal access to make Goblins, Kitsune, Najaji or Sylph characters. In this case, a boon is required to access these races and make them legal to use

So even thought it is stated in the Bestiary that a Roc is a valid Animal Companion. It is not a valid Animal Companion for a Ranger, which is still limited to the the "list" of animal companions on the Ranger class page.
Aka, as a Ranger, you do not have Legal Access to the Roc.

[Dhjika]

Secane wrote:

....

So even thought it is stated in the Bestiary that a Roc is a valid Animal Companion. It is not a valid Animal Companion for a Ranger, which is still limited to the the "list" of animal companions on the Ranger class page.
Aka, as a Ranger, you do not have Legal Access to the Roc.

A Falconer takes as his/her animal companion a 'bird of prey' - would a roc (or axebeak for that matter) count in regards to what the Falconer could have as a companion?

[Sniggevert]

This is the Bird they are talking about...

PRD wrote:

Bird (Eagle/Hawk/Owl)

Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 10 ft., fly 80 ft. (average); AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4), 2 talons (1d4); Ability Scores Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision.

4th-Level Advancement: Ability Scores Str +2, Con +2.

The falconer can use it for other birds that are natural birds of prey or scavengers, but they all use the "Bird" statistics.

So, any other specifically named bird, such as Roc, that can be a companion, would not be an acceptable use.

[TouchyRogue]

Secane wrote:

We recently have a similar question on mounts and what are legal sources for mounts. After some debate and a PM to Mr Brock.

The answer is "The three classes (Paladin, Cavalier and Nature Oracle.) are still limited to their respective class abilities. (meaning only horses, camels, pony, wolf, boar and dog mounts.)"

In the case of mounts, the Mammoth Rider or the Cavaliers Archetype Beast Rider are examples of "another legal source" as stated in the PFS FAQ.

The books are all sources/resources, but having a book does not mean all options in the books are legal or accessible to use.

For example, having the Advance Race Guide, does not means you have legal access to make Goblins, Kitsune, Najaji or Sylph characters. In this case, a boon is required to access these races and make them legal to use

So even thought it is stated in the Bestiary that a Roc is a valid Animal Companion. It is not a valid Animal Companion for a Ranger, which is still limited to the the "list" of animal companions on the Ranger class page.
Aka, as a Ranger, you do not have Legal Access to the Roc.

So Im confused, in the list of what is and isnt okay from a particular source, it lists Beastmaster as being PFS legal, so if you go the Beastmaster route then Roc is available to a Ranger, but ONLY if you choose to be a Beastmaster?

[Nefreet]

Correct.

[Mojorat]

Yes... to be clear a roc isn't a valid ac for s ranger outside of pfs. There os no reason to expect pfs to change this. Or to simplify things you need something go say you can select the roc as an ac.

[SCPRedMage]

Mojorat wrote:

Yes... to be clear a roc isn't a valid ac for s ranger outside of pfs. There os no reason to expect pfs to change this. Or to simplify things you need something go say you can select the roc as an ac.

Actually, it is.

PRD wrote:

Rocs taken as animal companions by druids or rangers are typically newly hatched birds—a baby roc is the size of a person and ready for flight and hunting within minutes of hatching.

This clearly implies that rangers can select a roc, just as much as it implies that a druid can.

So, outside of PFS, there is in fact a clear indication that a roc is a valid ranger animal companion.