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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

No yuze not! It was me! *cuddles*

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Well I have started reading the rules so you can answer...

I did not understand the ritual rules at that point (specifically Planar Binding), which would have radically changed the "Diabolist Raised" background.

Also, the "Infernal Bastard" background was written in a vacuum, so I was guessing on a good "feat" for it. Compounding this is that the trait was written to nerf the Tiefling, which proved to be unneeded.

Should not be too hard to fix...

I am finding it surprisingly difficult. Especially the Tiefling one, since we don't have that as an option yet. :(

I see you are not liking the race re-design. Wait 'til you reach equipment. I am not a fan of the new money system, but that may just be grognard-ism.

What is your general impression? Has Pathfinder Leveled Up?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I have to say...the money system is okay with me (though I might change the starting wealth for characters....). If anything i am kinda disappointed they did not keep the silver standard from the playtest.

Tiefling heritage will be a race option in the Advanced Player's Guide coming out next gencon...which will be able to be tacked on any race.

My over all opinion on it is... I still like 1st ed better...however I do like it over 5th Ed D&D.

That made changes from the playtest that I had concerns over...not sweeping changes but at least somewhat a comoromise... which i will appreciate greatly. After fighting the 4th ed wave on the WotC board and being told by designers pretty much i did not matter...while i still have issues it feels like Paizo does give a s h it about me and my playstyle.

I am willing to give a real chance.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
No yuze not! It was me! *cuddles*

Sorry something happened at work that makes me feel a little old...

*cuddles*


Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties to her off-hand/dagger hand? Both the rapier & dagger are Finesse (pg. 282), and the dagger is Agile (pg. 282), so that helps.

But assuming she leads with her rapier for her first attack, she's still looking at a -4 penalty (pg. 446) for her second attack with her dagger. Worse, a third attack is at -8 for the dagger or -10 for the rapier.

Even if she leveled up into the ranger "multi-class archetype" (pg. 228), she still can't get the Hunter's Edge [flurry] (pg. 168) at all.

So why bother with TWF as a rogue at all? Even the rogue two-weapon feint feats (Twin Feint pg. 183) don't seem worth it.

Edit: Added 2E references


1st or 2nd? Sorry confused...


2Ed


Okay I will look at later tonight...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Lord Fyre wrote:
I am finding it surprisingly difficult. Especially the Tiefling one, since we don't have that as an option yet. :(

Fortunately, I am saved some embarrassment, because Council of Thieves isn't very good.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties to her off-hand/dagger hand? Both the rapier & dagger are Finesse (pg. 282), and the dagger is Agile (pg. 282), so that helps.

But assuming she leads with her rapier for her first attack, she's still looking at a -4 penalty (pg. 446) for her second attack with her dagger. Worse, a third attack is at -8 for the dagger or -10 for the rapier.

Even if she leveled up into the ranger "multi-class archetype" (pg. 228), she still can't get the Hunter's Edge [flurry] (pg. 168) at all.

So why bother with TWF as a rogue at all? Even the rogue two-weapon feint feats (Twin Feint pg. 183) don't seem worth it.

Edit: Added 2E references

I see your point...and it is problem I have with the system overall of class locking things...


Lord Fyre wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
I am finding it surprisingly difficult. Especially the Tiefling one, since we don't have that as an option yet. :(
Fortunately, I am saved some embarrassment, because Council of Thieves isn't very good.

I...disagree on multiple levels with the criticism...

As long as all the players understand what you are doing in the AP

And the GM can think out side of the script( which should be done for every written adventure anyway) and smooth somethings out...

It should be fine...personally rating a AP is kinda silly in the first place.,,

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
No yuze not! It was me! *cuddles*

Sorry something happened at work that makes me feel a little old...

*cuddles*

*cuddles*

And they did kinda keep the Silver standard, Greatswords are 2g, in 1e they were 50g (unless I'm misunderstanding)


Rysky wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
No yuze not! It was me! *cuddles*

Sorry something happened at work that makes me feel a little old...

*cuddles*

*cuddles*

And they did kinda keep the Silver standard, Greatswords are 2g, in 1e they were 50g (unless I'm misunderstanding)

The prices were listed in Silver Pieces is what I meant...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
No yuze not! It was me! *cuddles*

Sorry something happened at work that makes me feel a little old...

*cuddles*

*cuddles*

And they did kinda keep the Silver standard, Greatswords are 2g, in 1e they were 50g (unless I'm misunderstanding)

The prices were listed in Silver Pieces is what I meant...

*nods*


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Also a out 2nd ed...I am excited about the future books coming out this year...

I mean the next Year Gencon release will include 2nd ed versions of my two favorite classes (Witch and Swashbuckler) a d race (tiefling)

Also a giant Absalom book...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Selene Spires wrote:

Also a out 2nd ed...I am excited about the future books coming out this year...

I mean the next Year Gencon release will include 2nd ed versions of my two favorite classes (Witch and Swashbuckler) a d race (tiefling)

Also a giant Absalom book...

Yay!

And I think we're getting Changeling as well.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Selene Spires wrote:
I mean the next Year Gencon release will include 2nd ed versions of my two favorite classes (Witch and Swashbuckler) a d race (tiefling)

It feels so long …


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Selene Spires wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties...
I see your point...and it is problem I have with the system overall of class locking things...

Yeah, I'm having a hard time rolling back my thinking/tinkering to pre-PF1E APG levels. There are some things I hate strongly dislike in PF2E, and turning the archetype system into Unchained's Variant Multiclassing 2.0 is a big one. [MORE WHINGING DELETED] PF2E just doesn't engage with me on a creative and storytelling level at all, unlike PF1E core & APG did.

I've got the PF2E corebook, but I think I'm going to sit out buying everything else PF2E until the PF2E Advanced Player's Guide rolls out at GenCon. Then I'll decide whether to give up entirely on it or not.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties...
I see your point...and it is problem I have with the system overall of class locking things...
Yeah, I'm having a hard time rolling back my thinking/tinkering to pre-PF1E APG levels. There are some things I hate strongly dislike in PF2E, and turning the archetype system into Unchained's Variant Multiclassing 2.0 is a big one. [MORE WHINGING DELETED] PF2E just doesn't engage with me on a creative and storytelling level at all, unlike PF1E core & APG did.

I am not having the problem with jumping back to CORE + Bestiary 1, but still …

* - Multi-Class Archetypes are not worth the effort.
* - Not a fan of how much races were nerfed.
* - Not a huge fan of making Goblins core. I feel it steals the traditional role of the Half-Orc.
* - The change in the money system - specifically repricing many items has been an obstical in using older material. The intent was to "make the math easier" but, I am not seeing it.
* - The "rarity" system is a good idea, but I am not so sold on some of the individual choices Paizo made.
* - Still not a fan of the art shift - but I am in the minority there. :(
Not directly related ...
* - Hating the new format for the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Check this out!
Looks interesting...I will have to get the Corebook to see what they did with skill feats to completely judge it...which should be later tonight...
Unfortunately, my first attempt has a few flaws. :(
What flaws?

Do you want me to answer before or after you get the rules?

Also, …

Well I have started reading the rules so you can answer...

I did not understand the ritual rules at that point (specifically Planar Binding), which would have radically changed the "Diabolist Raised" background.

Also, the "Infernal Bastard" background was written in a vacuum, so I was guessing on a good "feat" for it. Compounding this is that the trait was written to nerf the Tiefling, which proved to be unneeded.

Selene Spires wrote:
Also just a thought there is I believe a player guide coming out for the first 2nd ed AP...you might want to check it out...
Downloaded and read last week.
Should not be too hard to fix...

Updated


Selene Spires wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Dear Selene,

If you got stuck in a cabin in a woods, but there was no killers on the prowl, would you terrify your neighbors (who live up the hillside) by dressing as Pennywise?

Mmmm...it depends...

Are my neighbors armed?

Do my neighbors have a sense of humor?

Do I like my neighbors?

Though I might not go with Pennywise and go with something more classic to the setting....

In order;

I dunno. I dunno. I never met them. Also I don't have an old school hockey mask nor do I want to invest in practical effects.

But with regards to an ACTUAL question; Which goes better with milk, Oreos or Graham Crackers?


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties...
I see your point...and it is problem I have with the system overall of class locking things...

Yeah, I'm having a hard time rolling back my thinking/tinkering to pre-PF1E APG levels. There are some things I hate strongly dislike in PF2E, and turning the archetype system into Unchained's Variant Multiclassing 2.0 is a big one. [MORE WHINGING DELETED] PF2E just doesn't engage with me on a creative and storytelling level at all, unlike PF1E core & APG did.

I've got the PF2E corebook, but I think I'm going to sit out buying everything else PF2E until the PF2E Advanced Player's Guide rolls out at GenCon. Then I'll decide whether to give up entirely on it or not.

I am thinking of just creating a Two Weapon Fighting feat....and give flurry rangers something extra...

Multiclassing feats are a problem...I might have to rework them to be better...

The thing is...it might serve as a compromise system for some friends of mine.


Lord Fyre wrote:


I am not having the problem with jumping back to CORE + Bestiary 1, but still …

* - Multi-Class Archetypes are not worth the effort.
* - Not a fan of how much races were nerfed.
* - Not a huge fan of making Goblins core. I feel it steals the traditional role of the Half-Orc.
* - The change in the money system - specifically repricing many items has been an obstical in using older material. The intent was to "make the math easier" but, I am not seeing it.
* - The "rarity" system is a good idea, but I am not so sold on some of the individual choices Paizo made.
* - Still not a fan of the art shift - but I am in the minority there. :(
Not directly related ...
* - Hating the new format for the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild.

1) Agreed...like the Rogue feat should start off by giving you Sneak Attack...

2) Agreed but I think my house rule fixes that...

3) My issue with goblins is that it will be a race that it is a bad player trap. People like goblins because they are little psychopath manics...for a one shot that is fine...but a campaign...it is the lender problem all over.

4) I have no issue with this...but I can see your point.

5) The rarity system is to give weak GMs mechanical support to ban things...

6) I...like most of the art...can you ever forgive me!

7) Don't play organize play...so I can't give a educated opinion on it.

The thing is I feel like I can fix these things...I might even post a thread of my house rules...


Re: The Update by Lord Fyre...

Those work better...though I am still reading and figuring it out...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Selene Spires wrote:
6) I...like most of the art...can you ever forgive me!

I've forgiven you for not liking Star Trek. By comparison, this is nothing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Dear Selene,

If you got stuck in a cabin in a woods, but there was no killers on the prowl, would you terrify your neighbors (who live up the hillside) by dressing as Pennywise?

Mmmm...it depends...

Are my neighbors armed?

Do my neighbors have a sense of humor?

Do I like my neighbors?

Though I might not go with Pennywise and go with something more classic to the setting....

In order;

I dunno. I dunno. I never met them. Also I don't have an old school hockey mask nor do I want to invest in practical effects.

But with regards to an ACTUAL question; Which goes better with milk, Oreos or Graham Crackers?

I like my cookies and cracks without milk...but if forced to choose I would go with the Oreos


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Maybe I'm overlooking something, but Merisiel's pic (PF2E Core Rulebook pg. 181) shows her duel-wielding a rapier and a dagger. How does she two-weapon fight without taking significant penalties...
I see your point...and it is problem I have with the system overall of class locking things...

Yeah, I'm having a hard time rolling back my thinking/tinkering to pre-PF1E APG levels. There are some things I hate strongly dislike in PF2E, and turning the archetype system into Unchained's Variant Multiclassing 2.0 is a big one. [MORE WHINGING DELETED] PF2E just doesn't engage with me on a creative and storytelling level at all, unlike PF1E core & APG did.

I've got the PF2E corebook, but I think I'm going to sit out buying everything else PF2E until the PF2E Advanced Player's Guide rolls out at GenCon. Then I'll decide whether to give up entirely on it or not.

Well, the TWF feats in PF1E were to offset the penalties involved in fighting with a weapon in each hand while allowing an extra attack.

In 2E there are no penalties for fighting with two weapons and everyone gets extra attacks. There are class feats that augment two-weapon fighting, and I expect some more for rogue in the future. But each one matches up with the fighting style of the prime class.

The system has changed so much that it can be hard to tell where the old abilities come in and where they have become irrelevant.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Re: TWF...the thing is Two Weapon Fighting in 2nd ed seems to be there to off set the multiple attack penalty as there is no advantage in doing so. So feat (or class ability) in 2nd to off set the penalty would be equivalent to the 1st ed feat.

It is something that all martial classes should have as a option.

And rogue is definitely a martial class.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

How many people do you think actually respect the message of "Kumbaya" anymore? It feels like these days you're a lot more likely to hear it used as a sarcastic retort to someone's percieved naiveté rather than as a respected piece of folk music or Civil Rights movement history.


Selene Spires wrote:

Re: TWF...the thing is Two Weapon Fighting in 2nd ed seems to be there to off set the multiple attack penalty as there is no advantage in doing so. So feat (or class ability) in 2nd to off set the penalty would be equivalent to the 1st ed feat.

It is something that all martial classes should have as a option.

And rogue is definitely a martial class.

This.

[rant] If players want to build there rogue with a heavy focus on skills, that's great and should definitely be an option. But some of us want to play melee debuffing/incapacitating PF1E slayers, and that should be an option too. Two-weapon fighting already had enough issues with the small damage dice of light weapons, getting damage through DR, and paying for double the magic enhancements in PF1E without further penalization in PF2E. Two-weapon fighting is apparently fine for rangers who are STR-based (so the Drizzt comparison doesn't bother them), but not rogues? I'm fine with rangers being the masters of 2WF, but it should be a viable option for rogues and fighters too.

It feels like the rogue is really only in PF2E because everyone expects it there. And right at the PF2E launch, they announced the investigator and swashbuckler got bumped ahead in the line to appear in the PF2E APG because of their usefulness/appropriateness in the upcoming Absalom AP. Which I'm ok with because investigator and swashbuckler fans need their fixes too, but the rogue is right freaking there. Why not round out/shore up the rogue? It feels like the rogue is again being written-off/neglected/falling behind the curve like it was under PF1E. [/rant]


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Also...if you want be able to use a shield effectively (actually at all) there is a general feat everybody can get...TWF should be the same.


{drinks glass of milk} [rant] Augh, and the starting limit of 1 ancestry feat completely blows. The unnecessary limitation erases much of each ancestries unique flavor and makes them all feel like slightly-tweaked humans. I don't want to play humans. I have to pretend to be society's non-threatening idea of a normal human every damn day. I play RPGs and immerse myself in their setting lore because I need a fun, empowering escape, if just for a little while. {yawns} The stunted ancestries presented in the PF2E corebook don't compare to the rich lore and flavor from the wealth of fiction & media that have come before; they don't even stand up to the options offered in PF1E!

{yawns, head nods for a bit} If giving characters 2 starting ancestry feats breaks the game balance, then either 1) the game foundation needs a significant rebuild, or b) the game designers need a clear-eyed rethink of why they choose to limit player's options. {yawns} It feels like non-humans in particular are blunted to make humans seem less dull in comparison, which... {yawns} Making non-humans less fun to keep the humans on top makes me draw unflattering conclusions about the designers' imagination and/or their worldview. [/rant]

{yawns, looks down at milk glass} Hey, someone drugged m- {falls over unconscious}


2 people marked this as a favorite.

{lights candy cigar} Took long enough. Murdoch, Face, help me get her on the plane.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hunt, the PugWumpus wrote:
{lights candy cigar} Took long enough. Murdoch, Face, help me get her on the plane.

How many time do I have to tell you, I'm not answering to Murdoch!

*begins helping drag Ambi onto the plane*


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well when I start play testing the house rule of allowing players to start with 3...maybe for Ancestry feats I will let you know if the game implodes...or explodes...

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
It feels like non-humans in particular are blunted to make humans seem less dull in comparison, which.

I submit that this approach actually makes humans more dull than they might have been before. :(


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I like how they do ancestry, allows for more customization between characters, sure you got the same thing with alternate race traits but no one I know ever used them except me.

Now, they have no choice!

Mwahahahahahahaha!!!!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

captain yesterday wrote:

I like how they do ancestry, allows for more customization between characters, sure you got the same thing with alternate race traits but no one I know ever used them except me.

Now, they have no choice!

There is always a choice.

If someone wants to play PF2, then they have to use the system. But on this very thread there are GMs who are looking to make changes.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Oh yes, go nuts, make it your own!

I'm certainly not telling anyone they're doing it wrong.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Getting this thread back on track ...

Selene, you've bought the rules. Did you buy either of the adventures (Plaguestone or Hellknight Hill)?

If not, what adventures/APs would you want to run PF2 with?


Lord Fyre wrote:

Getting this thread back on track ...

Selene, you've bought the rules. Did you buy either of the adventures (Plaguestone or Hellknight Hill)?

If not, what adventures/APs would you want to run PF2 with?

I have not and will probably run home brew adventures as published modules being for the most part designed or at least edited...etc by the people behind the system tend to try to hide the warts...

The stuff I run will test the system and see how much support there is for the style of game I want to run.


So...anymore questions for me?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Any things you're likin from 2e?


Rysky wrote:
Any things you're likin from 2e?

That is a tricky question....

For instance...

I like the 4 kinds of magic especially how they interact with sorcerer's bloodlines but...

I dont see bards have the same source of magic as the Dark Tapestry madness magic...

And is paizo willing to create moresources of magics for new classes or are they going to pigeon hole new spell casting classes into one of the existing 4. I mean personally I would I would have created the Muse source for bards.

Or I like backgrounds but think Traits did it better as they are more flexible and create more in depth characters

So I do like thing...but all of them have similar caveats.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It's probably not the exact same source as those in the Dark Tapersty, just abstract in general. Witch will probably be Occult as well.

And yes I believe the plan atm is to just have those 4 lists.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Any things you're likin from 2e?
That is a tricky question....

And what are you not happy with in PF2?


Rysky wrote:

It's probably not the exact same source as those in the Dark Tapersty, just abstract in general. Witch will probably be Occult as well.

And yes I believe the plan atm is to just have those 4 lists.

That is kinda disappointing...Arcane, Divine, and Nature all of strong ties to the world...occult just seems to be just a dumping ground.

I hope they rethink this...


Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Any things you're likin from 2e?
That is a tricky question....
And what are you not happy with in PF2?

The one area that I think they totally screwed up is the multiclassing feats section...

(It would have also been nice to see some non multiclassing archetypes)


Dear Selene,

If you could visit/stay for a week in ANY place and/or famous house, what would it be?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Selene Spires wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Any things you're likin from 2e?
That is a tricky question....
And what are you not happy with in PF2?
The one area that I think they totally screwed up is the multiclassing feats section...

I don't believe Multiclassing is allowed anymore. :(

Selene Spires wrote:
(It would have also been nice to see some non multiclassing archetypes)

Page Count Monster?

Selene Spires wrote:
Rysky wrote:

It's probably not the exact same source as those in the Dark Tapersty, just abstract in general. Witch will probably be Occult as well.

And yes I believe the plan atm is to just have those 4 lists.

That is kinda disappointing...Arcane, Divine, and Nature all of strong ties to the world...occult just seems to be just a dumping ground.

I hope they rethink this...

I wouldn't hold your breath.

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