Not sure where this goes, so I am going to give this the old try!
This refers to the page: Equipment of the online PRD, though may also apply to future print versions.
It would be helpful if the weapon sizes table included the category "small" in addition to "tiny."
While many of the weapon resizings can be guessed by looking through the weapons table itself, there are sizes that have no easy reference, such as 2d10.
To fill in these gaps, the user has to go to the Bestiary...under Universal Monster Rules. This is a completely different book, and assumes that the player would possesses prior knowledge of the table. There is no direction to point them towards it.
This is a small change, but would make the section much more usable. I realize changes necessitate a domino effect of effort, and appreciate it if this one would be considered!
Not sure if this is what you're asking for but I think it may already be in the text.
I'm not sure what you're asking for... the standard weapon tables already have entries for Dmg (S) and Dmg (M), which are the damages for Small and Medium weapons.
What weapon are you trying to scale?
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I'm not sure what you're asking for... the standard weapon tables already have entries for Dmg (S) and Dmg (M), which are the damages for Small and Medium weapons.
What weapon are you trying to scale?
It looks like the table on the PRD actually uses Tiny, Medium, and Large rather than Small, Medium, and Large. It also seems that it's not merely a labeling error, as the listed die sizes are appropriate for Tiny rather than Small weapons.
DMG (S) is listed on the charts with each individual weapon. Tiny and Large is provided on a separate chart for scaling purposes from the specific weapon listings.
So, if you look up a longsword, it does 1d8 Med or 1d6 Sm. If your human fighter gets enlarged, you look at the Tiny and Large Weapon Damage table to see that your longsword now does 2d6. If your halfling paladin gets reduced, you look at the same table to see that your longsword now does 1d4. Med damage is only provided on the table as a reference.
What Joana said. :)
@agnelcow: Yes! It would be helpful if it included small so that the table was more complete and simpler to reference.
I've found too, through actual play that the use of Tiny instead of Small causes confusion with real people. I was surprised that the table doesn't include it: stykk made the same assumption I did when I'd first looked.
@Sean and Joana: While a person can refer to the table below, not all of the die sizes are represented. For example, how does a 2d10 weapon scale? To find this size, you'd visit a separate book. To know to do this, you would not be a new player.
It's a small change that would render the rulebook simpler, and more convenient. This is about usability.
It also cuts down on error--like agnelcow, I assumed that Tiny originally meant Small...because it seemed so logical. When I brought this issue up at the table, three or so players chimed up that it MUST be on that...wait. Well, no it isn't. So even seasoned players become confused.
And to give this a little more playtest weight, three days ago I spent working with a new player and explaining that Tiny wasn't Small, and/or that Small weapon sizes really did exist. This person was new, and was learning the system.
What I learned from that conversation was that a simple reference or chart is easier (more usable) to a new player. Older, more experienced players may or may not know to use the other table, or to refer to the Bestiary, but this was not always the case here.
It took some time to explain, and convince, the new player when "the rules are right in front of you!" When I say it took some time, I mean around 1-2 hours.
I do appreciate everyone looking at it. I realize changes are domino effects.
So, thank you ahead of time.
{While a person can refer to the table below, not all of the die sizes are represented. For example, how does a 2d10 weapon scale? To find this size, you'd visit a separate book. To know to do this, you would not be a new player.}
There are no Medium weapons that deal 2d10 points of damage in the Core Rulebook. If you're a new player, you should be using the Core Rulebook to build your character and not additional sources (more options are just going to confuse the new player).
If you have a 2d10 Medium weapon from another source, you can scale its damage for different character sizes using the table on page 145 of the Core Rulebook.
{It also cuts down on error--like agnelcow, I assumed that Tiny originally meant Small...because it seemed so logical.}
Page 141:
So if you're a Small character, you use Small weapons.
If you're a Medium character, you use Medium weapons.
Page 144:
So a Small creature's weapons use the Dmg (S) weapon damage column.
A Medium creature's weapons use the Dmg (M) weapon damage column.
Small means Small. Medium means Medium. A Small weapon is a weapon a Small creature would use. A Medium weapon is a weapon a Medium creature would use.
Because the Core Rulebook only has Small and Medium PC races, it only lists Small and Medium weapon sizes in the main weapon table. That way you can look at the Dmg column for your character's size to get your weapon damage.
You only have to use the table on page 145 if you're using a weapon sized for a Tiny or Large creature (which is an unusual case, such as trying to use an ogre's weapon, or your character isn't Small or Medium and can't use the default damage values on the main weapons table... neither of which are things a new player should be dealing with when creating a character).
If you have a player playing a race that isn't Small or Medium, you're already outside the expected bounds of what a typical campaign is, and therefore you're going to have to go outside the Core Rulebook to find some of the data you're looking for.
Could we put all the weapon sizes in Table 6–4: Weapons? Yes.
But it would look incredibly cluttered (you'd have to add 7 more columns for all the sizes that aren't in the table), and would be even more intimidating to new players, and would be harder to reference in a hurry (as 99% of the time you don't need all of those additional creature sizes).
Because all the PC races are Medium or Small, we went with just those two sizes in the table because that's all players need to deal with. For the same reason, monster-only feats aren't in the Feats chapter (they're in the Bestiary).
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Putting a 'Small' column on the 'Tiny and Large' chart (which I believe is what the OP wants) sounds reasonable to me, since it would make reducing a Small character to Tiny easier (you wouldn't have to first bump it up to Medium before referring to the chart).
There is also the side benefit of making Small to Medium and Medium to Small conversions easier. As it is, only one of the four combinations of Small/Medium and Enlarge/Reduce Person (Enlarge Person on a Medium character) has a nice, simple chart.
Right. It's not adding 7 columns, it's adding one.
Sean, you bring up some great points. It's important to review the reactions of real people and their interpretations, too.
Often what we write on text doesn't matter--a user will take their own interpretation anyway and that's what I've tried to illustrate. It can be mindboggling and even frustrating.
No, there are no 2d10 medium weapons, though there may be a large one or you may have a monk who becomes resized. Given PF's size changing magic and plot happenings, resizing can be a common thing. Perhaps I should've pulled out a different die that isn't represented. It was the first one that I'd grabbed.
A big reason you would have a medium column is not so much to point out what a medium weapon does, but to provide its relationals to other weapon sizes. This relational uh, relationship becomes important when we begin doing things like Alice in Wonderland. Right now, we show the relationals between Tiny, (gap), Medium, and Large.
Why the gap?
Thanks for reading, everyone. And Sean, thank you for reading. It means a lot that you would stop by!
I don't understand why there's still a question... but I think Sean has a reasonable point. There are even more size categories and not all are listed on the tables.
In the table I linked previously, the last row is an example of a 2d10 medium weapon that scales to 2d6 (tiny) and 4d8 (large). I think it would be logical to assume it scales to 2d8 (Small) based on the scaling pattern.
For verification of this, and using only the Core Rule book, I found that the answer to your question is listed in the Monk Class page by comparison of the 20th lvl monk's Medium Unarmed damage with the sub table of the 20th lvl Monk's Small Unarmed Damage.
It is a little leg work, but if you're already looking in another book, you're already doing plenty. Not all the information can be contained within one section, so be sure to check similar and related sections because the answers may be there.