1st level Wizard commentary.


Advice

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

Going to be playing this guy tonight in Rise of the RuneLords and just wanted some quick commentary/ suggestions. I've never built or played a Wizard before so i hope i did well enough on the creation side.

Spoiler:

Albanon
Male Elf Wizard 1
N Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +3
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 11 (1d6+5)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft., shift (5') (8/day)
Melee Club +0 (1d6/x2) and
. . Dagger +0 (1d4/19-20/x2) and
. . Quarterstaff +0 (1d6/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +0 (1d3/x2)
Ranged Light crossbow +3 (1d8/19-20/x2)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (3/day) Shield, Color Spray (DC 16), Protection from Evil, Grease (DC 16)
0 (at will) Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Scribe Scroll, Toughness +3
Traits Reactionary, Scholar of the Ancients
Skills Acrobatics +0 (-4 jump), Climb -3, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Linguistics +9, Perception +3, Ride +0, Spellcraft +9 (+11 to determine the properties of a magic item), Stealth +0, Swim -3; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, Thassilonian
SQ arcane bonds (object [ring] [1/day]), arcane focus, elven magic, opposition schools (enchantment, necromancy), specialized schools (teleportation), summoner's charm (+1 rds)
Combat Gear Scroll of Summon Monster I, Comprehend Languages; Other Gear Club, Crossbow bolts (30), Dagger, Light crossbow, Quarterstaff, Ring, Backpack (21 @ 32.5 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (10 @ 2.24 lbs), Blanket, winter, Elven trail rations (5), Flint and steel, Ink, black, Inkpen, Mess kit, Pot, Soap, Spell component pouch, Tindertwig (5), Torch (10), Waterskin, 7 GP, 5 SP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Arcane Bond (Ring) (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Club - 0/1
Crossbow bolts - 0/30
Dagger - 0/1
Elven trail rations - 0/5
Shift (5') (8/day) (Sp) - 0/8
Tindertwig - 0/5
Torch - 0/10
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Bond (Ring) (1/day) (Sp) Use object to cast any spell in your spellbook 1/day. Without it, Concentration required to cast spells (DC20 + spell level).
Arcane Focus +2 to concentration checks to cast arcane spells defensively.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Enchantment You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Enchantment school.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Scroll of Summon Monster I, Comprehend Languages Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Shift (5') (8/day) (Sp) Short-range teleport
Summoner's Charm (+1 rds) (Su) Increase duration of summoning spells by 1/2 level (permanent at 20).
Teleportation Associated School: Conjuration

I did receive help and advice from this forum but just wanted some final tips and advice before setting forth on the path to adventure.


This is very similar to my own RotRL character, who is now at level 5, and also an Elven Conjuration/Teleportation Wizard.

My initial suggestion would be to get your encumberance down to light at first, so that you can benefit from a solid Acrobatics score and more movement, both for avoiding AoO's and getting into prime Color Spray position.

Silver Crusade

I might drop Toughness in favor of Spell Focus (conjuration) to open up Augment Summoning, based on what it looks like you are going for.

Ditch mage hand for acid splash, and you won't need the crossbow. If you decide to keep the crossbow, you really don't need 30 bolts. The other advantage of ditching the crossbow is that you can afford to scribe two or three scrolls early on. You will want to get a wand of magic missile as soon as possible.

If you can get your load back down to light load, that will help a lot. Fortunately, you will not need to carry most of that stuff much of the time.

I might move the skill point from Perception into another Knowledge skill. Probably (local) or (religion), depending on what other characters in the party have. Unless there is a bard in the party, you are the go-to guy for Knowledge skills.

Play advice: at low levels, don't feel like you need to be casting or attacking every round in combat. Your spells are limited, use them when it counts. If you find yourself in melee, don't forget about Total Defense.

Have fun! This AP has a lot of opportunity to shine as a wizard.

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

The Fox wrote:

I might drop Toughness in favor of Spell Focus (conjuration) to open up Augment Summoning, based on what it looks like you are going for.

I might just keep toughness. 8 HP at first is really a tough pill to swallow. Maybe push Spell Focus/Augment off till a little later.

The Fox wrote:


Ditch mage hand for acid splash, and you won't need the crossbow. If you decide to keep the crossbow, you really don't need 30 bolts. The other advantage of ditching the crossbow is that you can afford to scribe two or three scrolls early on. You will want to get a wand of magic missile as soon as possible.

Done, as far as Mage Hand and Crossbow. Though i might keep a back up with less bolts just in case. I have scrolls of Summon Monster 1 and Comprehend Languages. Any suggestions for the third?

The Fox wrote:


If you can get your load back down to light load, that will help a lot. Fortunately, you will not need to carry most of that stuff much of the time.

I'll just drop my Backpack and gear to the ground when needed.

The Fox wrote:


I might move the skill point from Perception into another Knowledge skill. Probably (local) or (religion), depending on what other characters in the party have. Unless there is a bard in the party, you are the go-to guy for Knowledge skills.

We have a paladin for religion but i changed it anyways just to fit in with his studious nature.

The Fox wrote:


Play advice: at low levels, don't feel like you need to be casting or attacking every round in combat. Your spells are limited, use them when it counts. If you find yourself in melee, don't forget about Total Defense.

It will take a little time to get used to being and playing a full caster class but i look forward to the challenge.

The Fox wrote:


Have fun! This AP has a lot of opportunity to shine as a wizard.

Thanks, i'm really looking forward to getting to play with my friend Kris running this game. We've just recently started gaming together again. :)

Silver Crusade

Sice you have a paladin, go for Knowledge (local) then. You will use it.

I use scrolls for those "toolbox" spells that I don't want to prepare every day.

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

The Fox wrote:

Since you have a paladin, go for Knowledge (local) then. You will use it.

I have Knowledge Arcana, History, Local, Planes and Religion. Nobles or Dungeoneering might be the only other un-covered knowledges in our group of

Paladin, Loremaster Fighter, Druid and myself.
The Fox wrote:


I use scrolls for those "toolbox" spells that I don't want to prepare every day.

I guess i'll just need to see if there is something useful to get a scroll of. Perhaps something along the lines of mount, for overland travel when needed.


I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.


Why a crossbow instead of a longbow? Longbows are lighter, have better range, and don't require a move action to load. They are a bit more expensive, is that the reason? If so, then maybe ditch the crossbow entirely and buy a longbow after you've accumulated a bit more gold.

Why a club and a staff? Mechanically, they're the same, but you're carrying 3 pounds of club for no reason, unless you want to throw it, but Acid Splash is far more likely to hit and you can do it all day. Drop the dead weight.

Why 10 torches? You have at will Light cantrips whenever you want them. That's 10 pounds of dead weight. If you're thinking that some day you might want to set something on fire, carry one or two at most and drop the dead weight.

If you're losing the weight of the crossbow, club, and most of your torches, can you get your weight down to 33 pounds to move 30' instead of 20'? If not, consider paying the extra price for a masterwork backpack (50gp) which lets you count your STR as 1 higher when calculating encumbrance. That will let you carry 38 pounds - not a big difference, but being limited to 20' might get you killed.

Finally, just a tip for people not used to spellcasters. Don't forget that Summon Monster takes a whole round to cast, even if you use your scroll. I see my new casters forget this (or simply never knew it) all the time.


Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

Yes, but used well, it can be one of the most powerful tools a spellcaster has. Sure, there are other options that are good too, but asking a caster to forego one of his best tools because it slows the game down is like asking him to deliberately be weaker than he has to be.

Swinging a weapon slows the game down too. After all, if those fighters just stand there they can really fly through their actions when it's their turn. Would you ask fighters not to do swing weapons so the game can go faster? Of course not.

Silver Crusade

Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

I made my suggestions based off of what it looked like the OP was going for. It looked like he wanted to play a summoning conjurer. Personally, I don't play summoning characters much anymore. But I also don't rain on the parades of people who do.


In general you want to memorize your offensive spells and write your defensive spells to scrolls. With that in mind, I would memorize an additional casting of Color Spray or Grease (probably the former) and scribe Protection from Evil. If necessary, get rid of the Summon Monster I scroll; it isn't very useful due to its 1 round duration. Not sure if your summoner's charm ability affects scrolls; if it does ignore this last part.

Ken


I believe Summoner's Charm does affect scrolls:

Summoner's Charm (Su):
Whenever you cast a conjuration (summoning) spell, increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1).

Scrolls:
A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way.

Still, I agree with the idea that scrolls are best used for non-combat or before-combat spells, simply because the time it takes to retrieve the scroll from your backpack (or wherever). It's also awkward to carry a staff in one hand and a scroll in the other because you can't cast any spells, even cantrips, without a free hand. Spending a round to get your scroll out, then another round to summon the monster, only to find that the other guys killed your enemies and you have nothing for your monster to do would be a little bit embarrassing...


Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

Speaking as a GM, yes, by taxing the GM with a bunch of additional info, it does slow the game down (they are the same thing, really, not two different points). But it is a task you must perform as part of the job. Summoning is a fantasy trope, this is a fantasy game.

Players can hardly be faulted for wanting to utilize one of the tools of the game.


Sorry i didnt mean to cause umbrage. Just pointing out a theme.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DM_Blake wrote:
Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

Yes, but used well, it can be one of the most powerful tools a spellcaster has. Sure, there are other options that are good too, but asking a caster to forego one of his best tools because it slows the game down is like asking him to deliberately be weaker than he has to be.

Swinging a weapon slows the game down too. After all, if those fighters just stand there they can really fly through their actions when it's their turn. Would you ask fighters not to do swing weapons so the game can go faster? Of course not.

Full attack actions = selfish.

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

DM_Blake wrote:
Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

Yes, but used well, it can be one of the most powerful tools a spellcaster has. Sure, there are other options that are good too, but asking a caster to forego one of his best tools because it slows the game down is like asking him to deliberately be weaker than he has to be.

Swinging a weapon slows the game down too. After all, if those fighters just stand there they can really fly through their actions when it's their turn. Would you ask fighters not to do swing weapons so the game can go faster? Of course not.

Being brand spanking new to Pathfinder and not having played 3.x D&D since 4e has come out forgive me if most of this goes over my head.

Damocles Guile wrote:


Full attack actions = selfish.

Color me the most confused by this statement.


Gallyck wrote:
I never understand this board obsession with summoning. It slows the game down so much. It also taxes the dm when you summon a bunch of creatures to do your bidding.

I believe the 3.5 optimizer, "Treantmonk," was a big fan of summoning. You can see some of his work in the Class Guides, which I understand are pretty popular.


Gallyck wrote:
Sorry i didnt mean to cause umbrage. Just pointing out a theme.

No worries, you didn't cause umbrage. I took it. It's on me.

ezrider23 wrote:


Being brand spanking new to Pathfinder and not having played 3.x D&D since 4e has come out forgive me if most of this goes over my head.

Damocles Guile wrote:


Full attack actions = selfish.

Color me the most confused by this statement.

We were both being sarcastic about the swinging a weapon/full attack stuff. Pointing out the Gallyck that chastising casters for using valuable Summon spells because it's mechanically time consuming at the game table is unfair like chastising fighters for taking time to swing a sword would be unfair.


summoning is probably THE most versatile setup, and can be a pain. Not my favorite, but sense wiz is strongest in utility, this makes sense. However, to OP:

I got slow ninja'd for the club + Qstaff. it is the same damage and type.
Crossbow v Longbow... I would say if you gonna start and its outta splash range of acid, a crossbow can possibly do better. (Since you can keep it loaded and drop and recover later) but I'll admit, the idea of an elf not using a recurve bow is... distasteful. However both have advantages. I would bring some kind of ranged weaponry, since acid is resisted, and you may take similar feats for it (if you went strong evoker as a second)

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

As of right now i do not intend to focus "summoning" but will focus on conjurations along the lines of terrain hindering features and a "controlerish" aspect of the Wizard.

As to the point on Longbow/Lt. X-Bow: I think i'm fine for now and if i see a need for one at a later time i'll pick one up. I just hope my buddies bring some ranged firepower of some type and i'll utilize the time spent attacking on something else if needed. Besides, the purchase of a ranged weapon will limit my ability to purchase another scroll.

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

Alright new version.
[spoiler 2.0]
Albanon
Male Elf Wizard 1
N Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 8 (1d6+2)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft., shift (5') (8/day)
Melee Dagger +0 (1d4/19-20/x2) and
. . Quarterstaff +0 (1d6/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +0 (1d3/x2)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 1):
1 (3/day) Color Spray (DC 16), Color Spray (DC 16), Magic Missile, Grease (DC 17)
0 (at will) Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Light
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Traits Reactionary, Scholar of the Ancients
Skills Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nobility) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Linguistics +9, Perception +2, Spellcraft +9 (+11 to determine the properties of a magic item); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, Thassilonian
SQ arcane bonds (object [ring] [1/day]), arcane focus, elven magic, opposition schools (enchantment, necromancy), specialized schools (teleportation), summoner's charm (+1 rds)
Combat Gear Scroll of Mage Armor, Scroll of Protection from Evil, Scroll of Shield; Other Gear Dagger, Quarterstaff, Ring, Backpack (9 @ 18 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (10 @ 2.5 lbs), Blanket, winter, Elven trail rations (5), Flint and steel, Ink, black, Inkpen, Mess kit, Scroll case (empty), Spell component pouch, Tindertwig (5), Waterskin, 20 GP, 4 SP, 1 CP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Arcane Bond (Ring) (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Dagger - 0/1
Elven trail rations - 0/5
Shift (5') (8/day) (Sp) - 0/8
Tindertwig - 0/5
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Bond (Ring) (1/day) (Sp) Use object to cast any spell in your spellbook 1/day. Without it, Concentration required to cast spells (DC20 + spell level).
Arcane Focus +2 to concentration checks to cast arcane spells defensively.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Elven Magic +2 to spellcraft checks to determine the properties of a magic item.
Enchantment You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Enchantment school.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Necromancy You must spend 2 slots to cast spells from the Necromancy school.
Scroll of Mage Armor Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Scroll of Protection from Evil Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Scroll of Shield Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Shift (5') (8/day) (Sp) Short-range teleport
Spell Focus (Conjuration) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.
Summoner's Charm (+1 rds) (Su) Increase duration of summoning spells by 1/2 level (permanent at 20).
Teleportation Associated School: Conjuration
[/spoiler]
Trying to take in all the info and apply. Hope i did this correctly?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ezrider23 wrote:

Alright new version.

[spoiler 2.0]
Albanon
Male Elf Wizard 1
N Medium Humanoid (elf)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
...

A pretty solid character. Sounds good.

I have a few questions or suggestions.
4 gp for a silver dagger and 25 gp for a cold iron light mace? On the off-chance you run into something your knowledge checks show has dr/silver or dr/cold iron? If you don't have the cash, maybe one of the more melee-friendly characters should consider this.
Normally I would not drop Perception because it is *the* skill. Though with a Druid (he does have it trained right?) you may not need the bump. Pick it up when you level though.

Oh and please tell us how the game turns out. :)


Mostly looks good, OP. I think people are just nit picking. :)

DM_Blake wrote:
Why a crossbow instead of a longbow? Longbows are lighter, have better range, and don't require a move action to load. They are a bit more expensive, is that the reason? If so, then maybe ditch the crossbow entirely and buy a longbow after you've accumulated a bit more gold.

More than a bit more expensive, I think longbow is more than a level 1 wizard gets total. And if you only have one attack anyway, it doesn't make much difference, you can still 5 ft step. Though the OP has str 10, low str is also often a great reason to pick crossbow.

DM_Blake wrote:
Why a club and a staff? Mechanically, they're the same, but you're carrying 3 pounds of club for no reason, unless you want to throw it, but Acid Splash is far more likely to hit and you can do it all day. Drop the dead weight.

Well, unless you plan to TWF with the staff as a double weapon, club is actually just plain better. You can throw it, and still 2H for extra str to damage (not that he has any). I assume staff is there due to thinking a wizard's supposed to have a staff, it's part of the iconic look (I try my best to make my wizard look NOT like a wizard, so any ambushing enemies don't know to go straight for me).

DM_Blake wrote:
Why 10 torches? You have at will Light cantrips whenever you want them. That's 10 pounds of dead weight. If you're thinking that some day you might want to set something on fire, carry one or two at most and drop the dead weight.

Or use Prestidigitation. Still, I think carrying a few torches is good for any PC, just to have on hand.

DM_Blake wrote:
If you're losing the weight of the crossbow, club, and most of your torches, can you get your weight down to 33 pounds to move 30' instead of 20'? If not, consider paying the extra price for a masterwork backpack (50gp) which lets you count your STR as 1 higher when calculating encumbrance. That will let you carry 38 pounds - not a big difference, but being limited to 20' might get you killed.

Definitely important, and he certainly can ditch some of that stuff. I'd ditch the winter blanket. It's really heavy, and Endure Elements exists, for times you're actually exploring a really cold place.

DM_Blake wrote:
Finally, just a tip for people not used to spellcasters. Don't forget that Summon Monster takes a whole round to cast, even if you use your scroll. I see my new casters forget this (or simply never knew it) all the time.

Yeah. Summon Monster I is pretty bad at level 1, even with the conjuror's extended duration ability.


Suggestion: Armor up. Either Silken Ceremonial Armor, or a Haramaki, and/or an Armored Kilt.
Haramaki and Armored Kilt is 11 lbs and 23 gp. You have 20 Gp left over, and you don't have enough elven trail rations for the bonus to kick in (you need to eat them for a week straight), so you may as well go with regular trail rations, and save another 7gp and 5 sp...which will buy you the Haramaki and Armored Kilt.
Also, you probably want to add some clothes to your equipment list...or maybe your wizards got an exhibitionist streak...
As soon as the party finds some money, you will want to buy some more snivel gear though (a TENT); a rainy fall night at 2oC would likely kill your ass right now... T
here is a lot of useful mundane stuff you could buy. Eg. the masterwork backpack above, a missile weapon, etc... And a reliable pack mule to carry all a low-level parties crud.


How are you getting two Know skills to a +10?
1 Rank + 3 Class + 5 Int bonus = 9

Also, where is the extra +2 to Initiative coming from?

(I'm assuming the answer to both of these is Traits?)


As a conjurer, or any caster based on battlefield control rather than blasting, going 1st should be your main priority. Personally, for this build I recommend going the route of PFS rules and skipping out on Scribe Scroll in favor of taking Spell Focus (Conjuration) for free at lvl 1. Improved Initiative is the best option early on, as it lets you position yourself once combat starts, and when you are squishy as a lvl 1 wizard, survivability is priority number freaking one.

If you were to optimize I would also say give up your weapon familiarity as an elf and play a fleet-footed variant. It gives you the feat Run for free, and gives you a racial +2 initiative on top of your traits and improved initiative.

Lastly, an object arcane bond is usually not the best option, but I understand not wanting to delve too far into the complicated mechanics of optimizing familiar play. Still, your character will undoubtedly benefit more from a Compsognathus familiar. It's a tiny dinosaur that gives you another +4 to your Initiative, and having your familiar on person also gives you the feat Alertness for free, giving you another +2 to the most important skill in the game (Perception).

Focusing on summoning doesn't come until later on in levels when your summons actually last long enough to do something on the battlefield, so if you wanted, you could put off Spell Focus for a level or two until your CL grows a little bit. Your favorite Spells should be grease and utility spells at lvl 1.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Rerednaw wrote:


I have a few questions or suggestions.
4 gp for a silver dagger and 25 gp for a cold iron light mace? On the off-chance you run into something your knowledge checks show has dr/silver or dr/cold iron? If you don't have the cash, maybe one of the more melee-friendly characters should consider this.

You got those backwards...

Cold Iron cost X2, so a cold iron dagger would be 4

On a light weapon, alchemical silver costs +20. So, a silvered light mace would be 25 (and because it is a bludgeoning weapon, won't take the -1 damage penalty).

I am sure this was an honest mistake, but didn't want the chance to accidentally confuse someone else. :)

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

Neo2151 wrote:

How are you getting two Know skills to a +10?

1 Rank + 3 Class + 5 Int bonus = 9

Also, where is the extra +2 to Initiative coming from?

(I'm assuming the answer to both of these is Traits?)

From traits.

Scholar of ancients(Rise of the Runelords campaign)-Speak, read and write Thassilonian and +1 to Arcana and History.
Reactionary- +2 to trait bonus to initiative.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Why a club and a staff? Mechanically, they're the same, but you're carrying 3 pounds of club for no reason, unless you want to throw it, but Acid Splash is far more likely to hit and you can do it all day. Drop the dead weight.
Well, unless you plan to TWF with the staff as a double weapon, club is actually just plain better. You can throw it, and still 2H for extra str to damage (not that he has any). I assume staff is there due to thinking a wizard's supposed to have a staff, it's part of the iconic look (I try my best to make my wizard look NOT like a wizard, so any ambushing enemies don't know to go straight for me).

Mostly untrue.

Given that Acid Splash is a touch attack, the wizard is far more likely to hit most enemies with it and 1d3 lots of times can easily add up to roughly as much, maybe more, than 1d6 fewer times. Unlike the club, Acid Splash never runs out of ammo and the enemies never throw it back at you. The club has a maximum range of 50 feet if the wizard wants to take a -8 to his attack roll. Acid Splash is limited to 30' but with no penalties. I would choose Acid Splash for sure, especially when weight is an issue.

Since he has no STR mod, as you pointed out, 2H wielding is irrelevant, but even if he drinks a Potion of Bull's Strength and then charge into melee combat, the RAW completely allows him to swing his staff like a 2H weapon, getting the full 1.5 damage mod, just like using a club. In this regard there is no difference, but the quarterstaff does have the option of trying to TWF if he's really gung ho to play with that, though the steep penalties are prohibitive.

So, unless "just plain better" is about the fact that the club weighs one less pound and can be thrown farther than 30' with a -6 or -8 penalty on the attack against regular AC rather than touch, I don't see any benefit to the club when he's already preparing Acid Splash anyway. Far from being "just plain better", but the staff doesn't come with the stigma of wondering if this elf is a barbarian or a wizard...

I agree with the rest of what you said, but I wasn't really picking nits; I was trying to help the poor elf lug all his gear around, or more accurately, lug only the useful bits of it.

Owner - October Country Comics, LLC.

Well i really could careless what a "Wizard" is supposed to look like i just originally had one for the walking stick/weapon versatility of the staff. I settled on the club and just call it a knobbly cane of sorts. Aside from that my Elf Wizard wears a well kept Explorer's outfit wit perfectly cut long coat finely embroidered with a red sash and scarf. Sort of along the lines of a well traveled middling nobleman and not the floppy hat, grey cloaked staff and gem sort of wizard.

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