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Do you secret roll it, or do you announce that a roll needs to be made?
The reason I ask is, one:Will secret rolls help to cut down metagaming, and 2:Loooking for the best way to do it, about to start GMing. Tried once before and it flopped.
Any other GM advice would be awesome as well, especially how to deal with unruly players. Thanks!
If you havent already theres a guy named spoony he does alot of videos called counter monkey and he gives alot of really useful advice.
heres a link,
http://www.youtube.com/user/countermonkeybard
as far as perception have them roll when its not related to something secret for example a trap) and roll in secret when something is happening (like they enter a room with traps in it)
The only good thing to come out of 4th edition D&D: The passive perception check.
That is, you take note of what every character's perception/listen skills are, and then you assume that they are permanently "taking 10" on the skill. eg. Bloodfist the Barbarian has a perception of 4, so if I want to sneak up on him, I have to beat a DC of 14. It's so simple, and so obvious, I don't know why I never thought of it myself.
I use this method unless a player actually specifies that they are looking for something, then I allow them to roll for it.
I say at random times "Roll perception." That way, they never know when there is something to be noticed or if I'm actually checking something. Same with sense motive.
I've meant to just saying at the beginning of each session, ok, give me 10 perception checks and 10 sense motive, but I always forget.
I usually just say to roll Perception whenever they enter a room or something's happening.
The former because it wastes time to say "Roll Perception to search each square of the room" or whatever and it's just faster and easier to get it done with and move on.
The latter because my players generally walk in a certain formation, though I'll periodically ask them where they're standing so I always have a fairly accurate indicator of who's separated from the group and when.
"Passive perception" is hardly new to 4e (other than that it was 'new' to D&D).
That having been said, an index card for each PC with the basic information you need - along with a handful of pre-rolled d20 rolls at the beginning of the session - goes a long way.
The pre-rolled d20 rolls are for when you're needing other d20 rolls for something. Say, initiative, saves made when unawares of the need to make the saving throw, that kind of thing.
That having been said, an index card for each PC with the basic information you need - along with a handful of pre-rolled d20 rolls at the beginning of the session - goes a long way.
The pre-rolled d20 rolls are for when you're needing other d20 rolls for something. Say, initiative, saves made when unawares of the need to make the saving throw, that kind of thing.
This is exactly what I do. I get 8 rolls from each, and roll my own d8 for each PC to see which of their rolls I start with. We replenish their rolls when used up and at leveling.
ETA: I use them for things they don't know about at all, and for checks where they shouldn't know the results, like Sense Motive.
Unless they have told me they are looking for something, make a comment about expecting an ambush, or otherwise single out an extra detail of attentiveness, i ask for take-10 perception values. If they have, i give them the option of take 10 or rolling.
If they say they're searching, I tell them to roll perception, even if there's nothing to find. No metagaming information is conveyed.
If there's something happening immediately (an ambush, a trap), I tell them to roll perception - if they miss, the players will still find out what they were rolling to find, but too late to do anything about it.
There aren't many cases where secret perception rolls are needed.
At my table, I run things like this:
- If the character would know the outcome (i.e.: attack rolls, saving throws, etc.) then the roll is made in public. Players roll for their characters. I roll for the NPCs. Always out in the open.
Sometimes, the screen blocks my view of the die and I have to stand up to see it. In that case, the players may know if I succeeded even before I do.
- If the character would not know the outcome (i.e.: Sense Motive, Perception, etc.) then I always roll in private behind the screen and tell them what they do/don't figure out. (The truth may differ and is unknown to the player.)
If something comes up where the character would get a perception roll (i.e.: notice an enemy sneaking up, notice a trap before setting it off, etc.) then I automatically roll for them, behind the screen, without telling them what the roll is about. If they succeed, I tell them about the thing they noticed. If they fail, they are told nothing until the thing suddenly happens to them.
I never fudge the public rolls; they are obvious for all to see. I call out the AC hit. The player is the one who tells me if I actually hit or not, based on their current AC.
I very rarely fudge the private rolls. If I do, it's always toward the better story rather than for or against the characters. For example, if the character fails a perception check by 1 and I think that making the perception roll would make for a more interesting session, then I won't give the full info, but I'll say they get a funny feeling or something doesn't seem right.
Note that "Surprise! X happens to you!" can be very disconcerting to players. The loss of control over the situation can very easily lead them to feel like they didn't have a chance and/or the GM was out to get them. Be sure to use it sparingly.
I've found the players are more receptive to being ambushed by enemies or traps when they also get to ambush the enemies from time to time. This is especially true when they go to the trouble to set up their ambush. Let them do it. When they know 'ambush' is a neutral game mechanic and not just the GM out to screw the party, it's much more exciting and enjoyable.
Also: Talk with your players. My system works well at my table because my players trust me and they enjoy the way I run the game. With a different set of players, I might choose to roll absolutely everything out in the open and just ignore blatantly obvious metagaming. Why?