I have never played a Pathfinder Monk and so I'm sort of at a loss for how to construct him.
Flavor-wise, I am playing a Half-Elf Monk who is hunting down the vampire that raped his wife, turning her insane in the process. I came to the monastery late after wandering the world for many years, stayed until my wife was attacked, and then began to wander again, filled with rage. I've recently returned, having received some direction as to this vampire's whereabouts.
Stats-wise: Level 3 | STR 17 | DEX 16 | CON 13 | INT 13 | WIS 16 | CHA 12
I want to keep him unarmed. I have a Temple Sword that I'm using until I get a d8 for my Unarmed Strike damage. I'm not sure what to pick for feats, if I want to go with one of the archetypes, or what.
As far as archetypes go, I really like the Maneuver Master and the Master of Many Styles. It would help the party to have someone doing crowd control via maneuvers, and I enjoy the grappling/disarm/trip maneuvers and shutting down enemies that way, but it also severely limits my damage potential (or so it would seem) and that can get kinda dull. I'm also only one of two melee combatants in the party.
What are y'alls thoughts?
OOOO I built a monk that was perfect at this. Go Crane Style Feats when possible while flowing monk archetype. In addition I made myself large, which you should be able to do permanently and its fun in game to play. I went tripping so everytime someone came within range, i would trip them. when they attempted to stand up they occur AoO, making them flat footed until my next turn. Great for crowd control and doesn't limit damage.
Also dont forget to get combat reflexes and fight defensively, your AC goes through the roof, Damage like a truck, and trip like a, something that trips well.
Yeah, I was just reading that while grappling does interrupt an attack action/Flurry of Blows, Trip and Disarm do not. Which are my favorite maneuvers anyway.
Hmm. Flowing Monk sounds awesome, and I could possibly combine that with Martial Artist to make a pretty damn good Support/Combat Monk.
Snake Style is awesome, though. That's the style I really, really like. It seems like it's hard to get more than one style, though.
Given your backstory I'd say you should go with either;
MoMS Monk 2-4, go the rest of the way Ranger with FE undead.
OR
Martial Artist Monk/Brawler Barbarian with Superstition rage power.
I'm not going to be multiclassing, as part of my character's story. His goal is to find this vampire to restore his wife to sanity, not to kill the vampire, so that he can find peace and balance in his life. Bringing her back to sanity would give him the home and peace he needs. But he lives by a strict code and endeavors to find a way to live free of this rage. So Barbarian is out. And the Ranger option I just don't care for. I want him to be unarmed.
But thank you for the recommendation. FE undead would be pretty awesome.
Can someone explain why folks tend to recommend Weapon Finesse for a Flowing Monk (or why folks suggest going Dex-heavy for a Flowing Monk)?
Additionally, this campaign is only up to level 16, but I'm still wondering about the efficacy of Trip or Grapple at higher levels. I searched around, people have mixed views. I'm wondering if maybe I should just focus more on raw damage and leave the maneuvers as much more of a side thing.
I'm definitely looking more towards Crane Style/Wing/Riposte as must have feats (along with Deflect Arrows and Dodge, which I have to take), while Snake Style/Fang are getting de-prioritized.
But I don't know what to do with the rest! I like Grapple, but I don't like not being able to do damage. I like Trip, but I know things tend to get bigger or they start flying and that I'd probably be best off using a Trip weapon but I wanna keep things unarmed.
With Combat Reflexes, I can make additional AoOs, but how often can one actually make multiple AoOs? I'm not clear how those work exactly. I know that if I Trip someone, standing up is an AoO and then if they move away that's an AoO too, right?
So would it look like this:
Opponent enters my square, I get AoO 1 (Trip)
With Vicious Stomp, I'd get AoO 2
He stands, I get AoO 3
Opponent attacks, I use Crane Wing/Riposte and get AoO 4
He moves away from me, I get AoO 5
Is this correct or is wrong?
Without a Reach/Trip weapon, how good is Trip gonna be? I plan to stay as unarmed./
If you want a range weapon use martial weapon starknife (range 20 ft.). the damage is a little better then shuriken and you don't lose it if it hits. Generally you only need to throw 1 before you close in for melee.
If you want a reach weapon instead, try this:
Why don't you pick up martial weapon at 1st level and use a Guisarme?
Monk w/ reach weapon: You can fight armed or unarmed while wielding a reach weapon using elbows, knees, feet or head.
Guisarme: 9 gp, 2d4 x3 — 10 lbs. S reach, trip CRB
M1: stunning fist, flurry of blows, unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, martial weapon Guisarme, improved initiative. Use your reach and combat reflexes to trip opponents. you're armed (no attacks of opportunity) and you get +4 bonus for using 2 hand weapon. On the move, use bull rush to knock them prone (same pluses applies). then move in on your prone opponents and follow up with your weapon or FOB (whichever does more damage). If they move or try to get up you get free attacks. If you get grappled, use stunning fist for release and retain your weapon.
M2 dodge
M3 power attack, use on your prone opponents.
M5 lighten weapon (prerequisite. don't worry about this yet)
M6 improved bull rush (more pluses for bull rushing)
M7 improved trip (ditto)
M9 improved evasion, greater bull rush gives you a free hit on prone opponents, good time to power attack.
M10 improved critical, apply to your Guisarme.
M11 Improved lighten weapon (a large Guisarme does 2d6 (3d6 if you use oversize and take -2. cheaper then power attacking) damage and your reach is 15-20ft(25-30ft oversize). for people 10 ft. or closer, use 5 ft. step, then weapon or FOB, whichever does more damage at the time.
lighten weapon>improved Lighten weapon also helps with your starknife. a Large starknife deals 1d6.
Alejandro Acosta wrote: If you want a range weapon use martial weapon starknife (range 20 ft.). the damage is a little better then shuriken and you don't lose it if it hits. Generally you only need to throw 1 before you close in for melee.
If you want a reach weapon instead, try this:
Why don't you pick up martial weapon at 1st level and use a Guisarme?
Monk w/ reach weapon: You can fight armed or unarmed while wielding a reach weapon using elbows, knees, feet or head.
Guisarme: 9 gp, 2d4 x3 — 10 lbs. S reach, trip CRB
M1: stunning fist, flurry of blows, unarmed strike, Combat reflexes, martial weapon Guisarme, improved initiative. Use your reach and combat reflexes to trip opponents. you're armed (no attacks of opportunity) and you get +4 bonus for using 2 hand weapon. On the move, use bull rush to knock them prone (same pluses applies). then move in on your prone opponents and follow up with your weapon or FOB (whichever does more damage). If they move or try to get up you get free attacks. If you get grappled, use stunning fist for release and retain your weapon.
M2 dodge
M3 power attack, use on your prone opponents.
M5 lighten weapon (prerequisite. don't worry about this yet)
M6 improved bull rush (more pluses for bull rushing)
M7 improved trip (ditto)
M9 improved evasion, greater bull rush gives you a free hit on prone opponents, good time to power attack.
M10 improved critical, apply to your Guisarme.
M11 Improved lighten weapon (a large Guisarme does 2d6 (3d6 if you use oversize and take -2. cheaper then power attacking) damage and your reach is 15-20ft(25-30ft oversize). for people 10 ft. or closer, use 5 ft. step, then weapon or FOB, whichever does more damage at the time.
lighten weapon>improved Lighten weapon also helps with your starknife. a Large starknife deals 1d6.
Edit: forget the starknife. Use a Chakram (martial). You get 1d8 damage, Crit x2 and 30 ft. range. It's a martial weapon so you can use it at first level. Stat priority also changes. Go with ++WIS>+DEX>+STR>CON>-INT>-CHA. I put WIS 1st to boost monk abilities (SF, AC, Ki). going with Mantis style.
modicasolis wrote: Can someone explain why folks tend to recommend Weapon Finesse for a Flowing Monk (or why folks suggest going Dex-heavy for a Flowing Monk)?
But I'm still wondering about the efficacy of Trip or Grapple at higher levels. I searched around, people have mixed views. I'm wondering if maybe I should just focus more on raw damage and leave the maneuvers as much more of a side thing.
I'm definitely looking more towards Crane Style/Wing/Riposte as must have feats (along with Deflect Arrows and Dodge, which I have to take), while Snake Style/Fang are getting de-prioritized.
But I don't know what to do with the rest! I like Grapple, but I don't like not being able to do damage. I like Trip, but I know things tend to get bigger or they start flying and that I'd probably be best off using a Trip weapon but I wanna keep things unarmed.
Monks are more support than Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins and Rangers because A: they're MAD, and B: they don't have the same BAB. Normally, support characters focus on more evasion, mobility, and tactics than clubbing things on the head, and DEX allows this much more than STR. As such, its usually the higher stat, and people capitolize on Weapon Finesse for that.
Also, you can deal damage while Grappling on the second round of the Grapple, provided you managed to hold on to your opponent.
Core Rulebook wrote: If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
Just be aware, big creatures get grapple bonuses, multi-armed creatures have sick Grapple bonuses, and NPCs can have Improved Grapple. Its still do-able, maneuver Monks are always an option, but it is situational.
As for style feats, Snake+Crane is tasty when fighting defensively. Riposte the first attack and AoO, then dodge the subsequent attacks and AoO again. Then take your turn, and attack. Repeat process.
Also keep in mind that Combat reflexes gives you a number of AoO's equal to your Dex mod per round, so that's another reason to boost dex in that situation.
modicasolis wrote: I have never played a Pathfinder Monk and so I'm sort of at a loss for how to construct him.
Flavor-wise, I am playing a Half-Elf Monk who is hunting down the vampire that raped his wife, turning her insane in the process. I came to the monastery late after wandering the world for many years, stayed until my wife was attacked, and then began to wander again, filled with rage. I've recently returned, having received some direction as to this vampire's whereabouts.
Stats-wise: Level 3 | STR 17 | DEX 16 | CON 13 | INT 13 | WIS 16 | CHA 12
I want to keep him unarmed. I have a Temple Sword that I'm using until I get a d8 for my Unarmed Strike damage. I'm not sure what to pick for feats, if I want to go with one of the archetypes, or what.
As far as archetypes go, I really like the Maneuver Master and the Master of Many Styles. It would help the party to have someone doing crowd control via maneuvers, and I enjoy the grappling/disarm/trip maneuvers and shutting down enemies that way, but it also severely limits my damage potential (or so it would seem) and that can get kinda dull. I'm also only one of two melee combatants in the party.
What are y'alls thoughts?
Good stats.
For archetypes, go Qinggong. ALWAYS. Then add in any others you fancy. Flowing monk is nice, Maneuver Master is OK but what happens when maneuvers aren't working? Master of Many Styles is a dip class for non-monks. Pick ONE style and stick with it is a far better way to go.
Weapon Master is a good one, if you aren't set on unarmed combat (as is sohei). Get a Temple Sword and flurry with it, and make the enemy hurt. Don't skimp on skills either, specialise enough that you can do something out of combat that is useful.
I ended up going with a Qinggong Flowing Monk. It's pretty good right now, building towards a Improved Trip-->Greater Trip-->Vicious Stomp Combat Reflexes build. Like what I mention here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pp9z?Constructing-a-Qinggong-Flowing-Monk-plea se#15
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