[Kickstarter] Pathfinder-Compatible Larry Elmore's Sovereign Stone RPG

Product Discussion


We at Timeout Diversions just launched a Kickstarter for Larry Elmore's Sovereign Stone RPG, this time as Pathfinder-compatible! Below is the official press release. Please feel free to post your comments and I'll be happy to answer your questions here as well. Thanks!

Now Active on Kickstarter

REDONDO BEACH, CA, April 21, 2013 - Created by iconic artist Larry Elmore (“D&D Red Box”, SnarfQuest), Sovereign Stone is an epic fantasy tale of mortals struggling to cope with the immense power of an artifact given them from the gods. The gripping conflict has been recounted in a novel trilogy by the best-selling author duo of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (Dragonlance, The Death Gate Cycle), as well as in vivid paintings featuring Mr. Elmore’s distinct, breathtaking style. Since its initial release to this day, the role-playing game continues to attract fans and players worldwide.

Now, Timeout Diversions, makers of the #1 pro-wrestling RPG in the world (Wild World Wrestling), aims to merge the exciting saga of Sovereign Stone with the most popular RPG system in the world—the Pathfinder® Roleplaying Game!

“Any time you can work with someone of Larry’s stature, you do it,” said Tony Lee, chief operator of Timeout Diversions. “Bringing a fantastic creation like Sovereign Stone to the Pathfinder system will invite even more gaming enthusiasts to discover all the unique personalities, races, history, and stories within this setting. I’m so stoked I can’t wait to see the project unfold!”

“I have known Tony forever and I cannot think of anyone else I would rather work with on Sovereign Stone,” said Larry Elmore. “There are many more stories to tell in the Sovereign Stone universe. With the help of Kickstarter, we can hopefully finish what I started!”

The project is now live on Kickstarter here and set to end at 9pm EDT on May 26, 2013. Initial stretch goals include a commemorative art print autographed by Larry Elmore, and a story penned by the prolific fan-favorite, Matt Forbeck. More star-studded offerings are expected and will be announced upon finalization.

Based in Redondo Beach, California, Timeout Diversions is the home of Killer Thriller, the B-Movie RPG, and the undisputed champ of pro-wrestling role-playing games, Wild World Wrestling. For more information on these games and Sovereign Stone, please check out the Timeout Diversions website and/or contact Tony Lee at info@timeoutdiversions.com.

Liberty's Edge

I like the fact that you come here and give us some information about who you are some of your credentials. I wish you had given us examples of things you made for pathfinder before, or some spoilers of things you're working on so we can see how you handle mechanics, but still this is a good introduction and I look forward to seeing your products.

I'm not sure I'm going to donate yet, I do think I'll see if I can find the first novel and read through it (thankfully there's plenty of time left on the kick starter) and go from there. I do wish you all luck though I don't think you'll need it.

Hi ShadowcatX!

Thanks for your comment! About Pathfinder, I did have plans to release thru Timeout Diversions a "Heroic Game Options" series that is designed to ramp up any Pathfinder games at the fundamental level. The first in the line would have introduced the "Momentum" mechanic. Basically, you accumulate Momentum Points from a successful die roll and then spend them however you like for a variety of bonuses on your next roll, from to-hit to saving throws to extra move or standard action, for yourself and even all your allies if you scored enough MP! I still want to release it so it will happen... just don't know when yet :)

My Wild World Wrestling, on sale on this site here, is d20-based, but modified to fit the pro-wrestling genre. The Free Fast-Count Demo is available here too, if you want to check out how the rules work. I also designed WWW's predecessor, OGL WWE Know Your Role, which more closely resembled the d20 System.

As for Sovereign Stone, we are currently looking at a departure from the usual spellcasting in term of interpretation. For starter, because classes like the Bard, Paladin, and Ranger are not spellcasters in the setting, we have to come up something else without making up redundant classes, nor do we feel that Pathfinder fans would want them to be "magic-less"... So, we're actually exploring the option to change their spellcasting class abilities into Spell-Like Abilities instead, with proper trade-offs so they're not overpowered.

I'll take the well-wishes, even if we're almost at the pledge goal already as we speak :) Wanna thank you and all the backers for the support, and I hope you'll find the project intriguing enough to pledge. Meanwhile, please let me know if there's anything else I can answer for ya!

And we hit our first stretch goal of $15,000 in less than 24 hours! All backers, even at $1 level, will now get a PDF collection of adventure scenarios. Coming up next, at $20,000, is an original story set in the Sovereign Stone world by Matt Forbeck!

Sovereign Court

How different will it be from the 3.5 editions ? Will there be more art ?

Dark Archive

What sort of page counts are we looking at? I'm quite interested but never saw the old edition :)

Pledged. Strangely I was gifted the 3.0 versions.

Stereofm wrote:
How different will it be from the 3.5 editions?

The main approach we're taking with this version is to make it as friendly to the source game system as we can, so Pathfinder players will find the setting more readily accessible than D&D players found with their incarnations. To that end, we're making this a leaner edition by cutting off extraneous stuff like generic equipment description, duplicates of existing spells, plus other things you could find in the PF Core Rulebook. For replacement, we want to include Sovereign Stone-specific materials. So the elven hirglaif and byrglaif, for example, would be featured rather than tucked away in a sidebar, among other unique weapons and gear (some perhaps newly created) from the races and cultures of Loerem.

Old classes are either greatly streamlined to capitalize on PF innovations like Archetypes (for Stalker, Soldier, and Mounted Warrior) or dropped in favor of similar-in-function but more enticing replacements(e.g., swapping out Noble for the more appealing Warlord, courtesy of Adamant Entertainment). The many human cultures undergo rule mods too, as Culture Traits and other options are added. The pecwae has become more interesting and are beyond being slightly-retooled halflings in game mechanics. Other humanoid races should get the same treatment as well.

Destiny Points will be tweaked to be more powerful and have less restriction on how they're used. For one, they'll double as ki/grit/whatever-class-feature points you have, too.

Sovereign Stone magic is redesigned to fit with the conventional PF magic system, but with options to retain the flavor of the old "Spellcasting Rolls". It will also be streamlined and simplified to make adaptations quicker, easier.

There are other changes in plan as well, such as new background/setting info wherever, however we can manage to include. It is our intention to make it as distinct from the previous edition as possible so old fans won't feel ripped off, and for Pathfinder fans to enjoy.

Stereofm wrote:
Will there be more art?

Yes! One of the shortcoming of the 3.5 edition was not enough art... something we want to rectify for the Pathfinder edition. The bestiary at the end of the Core Book should be fully illustrated once again, for instance.

Aarontendo wrote:
What sort of page counts are we looking at?

The Sovereign Stone Core, Bestiary, and Codex Mysterium should each be around 196-224 pages; the five sourcebooks about 64-96 pages each given an improved, efficient layout.

silverhair2008 wrote:
Pledged. Strangely I was gifted the 3.0 versions.

Thank you! We look forward to making this edition the best for you to enjoy!


Tony, great to see this happening. Best wishes to you guys!

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You mentioned using archetypes, will you also support the base classes from the APG and UM?
Also, Adamant hasn't the best reputation when it comes to the PFRPG and the Tome of Secrets was a very early supplement. A Cavalier can make a pretty good warlord, especially when you consider archetypes (they also work well as mounted warriors, but so do rangers and barbarians).
How about using Hero Points instead of Destiny points?
As for monsters, will you put the 30 pages of monsters from the Campaign Sourcebook into the Bestiary? That would free some space for setting description (of which the Campaign Sourcebook had rather little). It would distrupt the artwork of the Bestiary, but you could always hire Andy Hopp.
And would it be possible to give the monsters an alignment? Even if SS doesn't use it, it would make it easier to use the creatures in other settings.
Concerning the elven hirglaif and byrglaif, wouldn't it be sufficient to give elves weapon familiarity with katanas and wakizashis?
Don't limit yourself to the Core Rulebook, use the whole PFRPG line. You don't have to use everything, but there's no need to waste space and create redundancy.

That's all for the moment, I'm currently undecided due to the high shipping costs.

Aarontendo wrote:
What sort of page counts are we looking at? I'm quite interested but never saw the old edition :)

I've been making a list of Sovereign Stone products over at the Other Worlds forum at The Piazza and you can compare the size of unconverted products there, with what Tony just posted above.

Jadeite wrote:
That's all for the moment, I'm currently undecided due to the high shipping costs.

I'm in the UK and often am unable to buy things from US companies, because of the large shipping fees. The US postal service has pulled all of its cheap options and most companies send stuff air-mail now. And air-mail is much more expensive than surface-mail. There are a few companies that have worked out how to use consolidated shipping providers to get much lower international rates, but they are in the minority, because bulk shipping information is not widely promoted.

Hi, all. My name is Trampas Whiteman. I'm helping Tony on this project.

First, I wanted to say that this project is still very much in development, so not everything has been finalized. Your input will help to make it better!

Jadeite wrote:
You mentioned using archetypes, will you also support the base classes from the APG and UM?

Sovereign Stone's magic system makes it a bit more difficult to use every class from the expanded books. We're definitely covering the core book classes. We also will include the cavalier, which thematically works for the old mounted warrior class. Beyond that, we'll see.

What suggestions do you guys have on how to include the other classes?

Also, Adamant hasn't the best reputation when it comes to the PFRPG and the Tome of Secrets was a very early supplement. A Cavalier can make a pretty good warlord, especially when you consider archetypes (they also work well as mounted warriors, but so do rangers and barbarians).

Yes, but the warlord they produced had some good reviews and it fits the thematic ground of the noble.

How about using Hero Points instead of Destiny points?

I had not had a chance to talk to Tony about this yet, but that was my thought.

I should probably let Tony tackle your other questions. What I can say is that this edition of Sovereign Stone is going to be a lot more Pathfinder-friendly. We want this version to be recognizable to old fans, and approachable to Pathfinder fans. We hope that Pathfinder fans will look to Sovereign Stone as another great setting to game in.

I have a question. Under "The Rewards" the Scholar of Loerem does not show the print and PDF of the other two core books. However, the sidebar does list the other books as print and PDF. Was their exclusion simply a misprint?

silverhair2008 wrote:
Was their exclusion simply a misprint?

Yes, that was an omission. It has been fixed. Thanks much for catching it!

Jadeite wrote:
As for monsters, will you put the 30 pages of monsters from the Campaign Sourcebook into the Bestiary?

As Trampas mentioned, the project is still very much in development, so we don't have anything specific on that yet... It will largely depends on how much room we have left over after all essential campaign information have been included. I do have a hunch the creature description will end up under 30 pages.

Jadeite wrote:
And would it be possible to give the monsters an alignment?

If it's in Pathfinder (and monster alignment is), there's a good chance we'll use it :)

Jadeite wrote:
Concerning the elven hirglaif and byrglaif, wouldn't it be sufficient to give elves weapon familiarity with katanas and wakizashis?

Good point. We'll check with writer of the Elves book, Stephen Sullivan, about it.

Jadeite wrote:
How about using Hero Points instead of Destiny points?

After another review, yes, we'll likely expand Hero Points so they'll do what we envisioned for Destiny Points and more.

@ tmlee15,
No problem. It was sort of self serving. That is the level of my pledge and I wanted to find out if something had changed.

We've added a new Reward Level. It is called "Icon of Loerem" because it's your chance to become an icon in the world of Sovereign Stone!

Two of the most formidable forces in Loerem are the Dominion Lords, champions of Light with might granted by the gods themselves, and their Void counterparts, the Vrykyls. Now you can be immortalized in the setting as one of these powerful entities by pledging at the new $500 "Icon of Loerem" level. In addition to print and PDF editions of the books and signed novel trilogy, you'll be a revered Dominion Lord or a feared Vrykyl -- your choice -- featured in the New Vinnengael: Empire of Might sourcebook. This Reward is limited to 9 backers since both Dominion Lords and Vrykyls are the extremely rare chosen few, so grab your spot while you can!

We've also switched the two new stretch goals: New Vinnengael is now at $30k, and Don Perrin story/scenario is at $35k. We should have another new, terrific stretch goal ready to announce soon, as well, so look out for that!

Tony Lee
Timeout Diversions

So going to pledge for this after I pre-reg for Gencon.

Thanks, Brandon! Some of us may be at GenCon (Larry definitely is), so look us up at the Elmore Productions booth and maybe we can get in a demo of PF Sovereign Stone or two.

In case you missed it, we've added a new stretch goal for 40K: Sneak Preview PDF of New Potential Post-Novel Story Arcs. This is a compilation of the plotlines discussed in "secret meetings" between Larry and the creative staff. There were some very interesting directions we're looking to take the game after the War with Dagnarus is over. Super-powered PCs, Elemental Oracles, and new continent(s) on the other side of Loerem are among the major developments we want to explore, to which we look forward to having fans old and new aboard!

We've updated and added a couple of things since last week.

First, we found a way to reduce shipping cost to Canada, U.K., and Europe. If you're in those parts of the world, you can now enjoy a saving of $10-30 off the previous rate!

Second, if you pledge at the Scholar of Loerem level or above, you can get a softcover edition of the new Empire of Might: New Vinnengael sourcebook as an Add-On for $20!

EoM:NV is not a supplement on just the city of New Vinnengael; it is a book on the actual empire of Vinnengael itself. The content presents information about this mighty human realm from history to geography, culture, military, political seats, and the Church that is both influential and integral to the daily functions of Vinnengael. Of course, given its importance to not only the empire but Loerem too, there's a chapter devoted to the capital city as well. It's as comprehensive a coverage on the revived Vinnengael as you can get.

But that's not all. It also sheds some light on the mysterious order of monks known as the Keepers. Fans of Sovereign Stones will recognize them as the enigmatic harbingers who traveled throughout Loerem with the sole purpose of recording major events -- as mystical, animated tattoos on their bodies! More details will be revealed for the first time regarding this respected, virtually untouchable order, as well as their rumored connection to the dragons (which seemed to be their protective benefactors...)

Plus, all Dominion Lords known and/or active in Vinnengael get complete writeups and stats! If you've ever wondered about Sir Ardencoure, Lord of Freedom or any of his six fellow Dominion Lords and what incredible powers they have harnessed, look no further. And, if you pledge at the new $500 Icon of Loerem level, this is where you become immortalized in Sovereign Stone lore as either a Dominion Lord or their Void counterpart, a Vrykyl!

The PDF version of this supplement is FREE to ALL BACKERS when we cross the 30K threshold--which is just less than $500 away, so let's make it happen!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm sad to see the magic is changing. I loved the old system. Can you give more detail on how this is being changed?

GeneticDrift wrote:
I'm sad to see the magic is changing. I loved the old system. Can you give more detail on how this is being changed?

Got good news for ya: It is not completely abandoned! What we're planning to do is to present two systems: one which won't stray too far off the conventional Pathfinder magic so PF players can pick up the tweaks quickly, and one "optional" where "spellcasting rolls" and other ideas from the old system you mentioned are still in effect.

To start off, all spells from the PF Core Rulebook will be divided by elements. So "Cure Wounds" are exclusively Earth spells, "Invisibility" is Air, divination is either Fire or Water depending on end effects, necromantic spells are Void, etc. Some spells will get "elemental overlay"; for example, if you pick up "Magic Missile" as a Fire Mage, it's a "Fire Magic Missile"; as a Water Mage, "Water Magic Missile".

If you're using the PF magic system, spellcasters like Wizards and Sorcerers become Elemental Mages and they must choose an element (similar to how clerics choose Domains), with choice of "multi-classing" into another (or more) element later. From there, they get the spell list for their chosen elements, cast spells and progress like in any normal PF game.

The deviation for using the Sovereign Stone magic system from d20 3.0/3.5 comes after that. Each spell will be given a Casting Threshold (CT) and it goes off once you've matched or exceeded the CT. In other words, the general basis for the old system will remain, but is simplified and more streamlined, with expansion provided in the Codex Mysterium (admittedly with a PF slant since that's rather unavoidable). So yes, while the PF side figures to be more prominent, you can pretty much still have the "old way" of doing magic for your campaign if you want--we haven't forgotten our old fans... :)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber


My pleasure, GeneticDrift!

And we have just climbed over the 30K hump in funding. That means if everyone who pledges now, at any reward level, will get the PDF of Empire of Might: New Vinnengael for free -- just like all current backers! Coming up next, at $35,000 is an original story by Don Perrin, then the fantastic post-trilogy story arcs after at 40k. We hope to have as many of you with us as possible on this exciting journey!

It's on! Tony Lee and Ken Whitman will be guests on the Geeerati podcast next week, hosted by Christian Lindke, to talk about Sovereign Stone and the kickstarter. Tune in Wednesday, May 22nd, at 8:30pm PST to hear us talk about the setting, our plans, working with Larry Elmore, and everything else Sovereign Stone!

You can check out the preliminary info here. Let us know if you have any burning questions about Sovereign Stone and we'll do our best to work the answers into our chat. Please pass it on so no fans of Larry Elmore, Sovereign Stone, Pathfinder, and just plain good gaming will miss it!

Thought I'd elaborate a bit on the backstory for Sovereign Stone:

About 200 years ago, the king of Vinnengael, at that time the most powerful empire in the world, got help from the gods to create magic portals that facilitated travel between nations. However, most of them then begin fearing the prospect of invasions through these portals and protested. So, the Vinnengaelean king asked the gods for a way to prevent portal abuse and keep peace between the races. In response, the gods gave him Sovereign Stone, which can grant those chosen by the artifact abilities far beyond mortal man, making them mighty champions called the Dominion Lords.

At first only the humans have Sovereign Stone. But when the dwarves, elves, and orks complained, the pyramid Stone was split into four parts and gifted to those races, with each part corresponding to an element: Air for elves, Fire for dwarves, Water for orks, and the human kept the Earth segment. This enabled them all to create their own Dominion Lords.

One of the Vinnengael king’s sons wanted to be a Dominion Lord himself solely for the power, but after the Sovereign Stone rejected him, he became angry and went straight to learning the forbidden Void magic. He got so dark and good at it, he was able to create evil undead counterparts to the Dominion Lords called the Vrykyls. Eventually, the two sides clashed in a big battle and the human piece of the Sovereign Stone was lost during the war.

The game picks up 200 years after with the antagonist coming back to find the lost piece as well as taking the other pieces from the other races so he can reunite the Sovereign Stone and conquer the world.

A reminder that the Kickstarter ends this Sunday (5/26) at noon. Please feel free to post any questions!

And we're in the final stretch with less than 24 hours to go! With luck, we'll reach $35,000 for every backer to get a new story by Don Perrin of the Theros Ironfeld and The Doom Brigade novel fame as well as being one of the original developers of Sovereign Stone.

The extra swags going to all backers so far include a Sovereign Stone tale by Matt Forbeck, a PDF collection of adventure scenarios, and PDF of the new, never-seen-before New Vinnengael sourcebook. Backers pledging at hard copy levels will also get 8"x10" commemorative art prints.

The reward levels are structured to include all-PDF and PDFs + print books, so you have choices from getting just the PDF of the Core Rulebook at $10, up to both PDF and physical versions of everything (eight books total; nine if New Vinnengael is included as an Add-On) PLUS an autographed three-book novel series. There's even a level to immortalize yourself in the setting as a powerful Dominion Lord (or Vrykyl... your pick) with potential recurring role in future releases.

And if you really feel like splurging, you can get a masonite giclee by Larry Elmore to hang in your room too!-)

Pledged at "SCHOLAR OF LOEREM" Level.

Thanks much, Brandon!

Now we're at 80 minutes and counting... If you know someone who's still on the fence, please let them know there isn't much time left to get it at a good value!

The PDF for the Pathfinder-compatible Sovereign Stone Campaign Setting Core Rulebook will finally be available this Friday (June 6), on Paizo, DriveThruRPG and OBS affiliates. We added several new art and better scans from Larry Elmore himself at last minute so it's going to be 285 pages of goodness for $12.95!

In addition, Bestiary of Loerem and Codex Mysterium PDFs are releasing at the same time, at $12.95 each as well, for you to jump straight into fighting the unique monsters of the world created by Larry Elmore, and explore the new non-Vacian magic system adapted from the original iteration to Pathfinder!

We also offer the entire intro chapter, Setting Primer, here, along with fictions (featuring such authors as Margaret Weis and Matt Forbeck), on the official site. Check it out, and please feel free to ask me questions!

As a backer, I received the PDF two days ago. I'm pumped, I can tell you. The Core Rulebook is 285 pages, filled with lots ... no, make that LOTS of stunning Elmore art. I have not had time to read everything closely, but my first impression is that it's indeed very high quality work (not just the art, but the rules, too). I'm very, very happy with the product I backed ($129 to get the printed books shipped to Europe ... and I can't wait for the printed books, because I think such art deserves being printed).
If you are interested in this world and / or in Larry's art, I think $12.95 is a bargain ... no, I don't work for Tony, I'm just happy that this project was finished in such a great way (despite quite a bit of problems - which Tony dealt with admirably).

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / [Kickstarter] Pathfinder-Compatible Larry Elmore's Sovereign Stone RPG All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.