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I'm looking for some advice on a character I play every other week.
We're playing an evil campaign, and I am playing a half-orc fighter who is focused around on scythes. My character is level 4 and is set as such:
Durshakk
Level 4 Fighter (Nonarchetypal)
HP 45,
Str 22/24
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 14
Cha 8
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Scythe), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip.
My equipment is nonmagical, but I have a Belt of Giant Strength +2, and a permanent +1 Str bonus from a god, and +1 Str from my lvl 4 advancement.
I was looking for some ideas/suggestions/options to improve my character. I know that scythes are not the best of the two handed weapons, but I liked the way that my high crit multiplier means I get some insanely high damage rolls. (Last night I hit a target for 53 damage at lvl 3 (I just leveled up last night, so I can swap out improved trip.) And doing 14-20 damage per hit is also a good thing.
Would I do better overall if I retrained into falchions or something? While I would hit for less overall damage on a crit, I would crit a fair deal more often.
So what's your opinions? I'm the parties meat-tank-murder-machine. So anything that helps me in that regard.
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First off - whatever you have the most fun doing is the right choice, and it sounds like you're having fun, so keep it up.
If you'd like some suggestions, here are a few ideas that might work for you:
-Falchion will crit more often, if not for as much, and I'd agree with your notion to switch to it. I prefer this personally, as even a x2 crit is a game changer often times. If you expect the game not to last too long (and thus wont eventually get improved critical feat) then greatsword is another excellent choice.
-Weapon specialization is available at fighter 4th, and is a pretty amazing milestone feat to pick up. +2 to damage with your chosen weapon is a wonderful thing. I'd snag that over improved trip.
-Combat Expertise and Power Attack seem to be taking your fighter in two different directions. I'm guessing that your fighter may get more mileage out of dodge, toughness, iron will, or a more passive defense rather than having to reduce your offensive potential.
Obviously, you know your group makeup and what your fighter needs to accomplish better than I do, but off of what you've explained so far those are the changes I would suggest. Good luck! Or in this case, Evil Luck!
When you're doing a two handed character, especially a fighter, you're gonna want a tactical gimmick that's not just hitting things with your weapons. You already have the trip feats and a trip weapon, so that's one gimmick(and a great one). I suggest going one of two routes for your not hit things feats
1:Intimidate Build
Pump intimidate sky high and grab Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash, and Shatter Defenses. Grab a +1 Cruel Weapon. Make -everyone- you fight shaken and sickened. Casters will love you. Eventually you'll be targeting flat footed opponents all the time(level 7 or 8).
2:In the Blood
For this one you're going to want a good CHA, say 14/16, eventually 17.
Grab the feats Skill Focus and Eldritch Heritage. For two feats you can get a Familiar that can help you flank and can use wands to buff you(pump up its UMD and you're set) Thematically the Orc Bloodline would work fantastically for you and be great for damage as well.
A feat to look out for this one(aside from all three levels of Eldritch Heritage and Skill Focus:Survival) is Quickened Spell-Like ability for Touch of Rage.
A good archetype for your guy would be Two Handed Fighter for Raw Damage and Lore Warden for the Tripping. Sadly they don't stack, but both work for your Scythe.
If you're lawful, dip maneuver master monk for a free trip attempt at-2, every full attack, even armored and using non-monk weapon. If you do this, keep an eye out for an Urgathoan monastery that can enchant your weapon with Ki so you can stunning fist through it too.
Falchion would up the DPR, as usually scythe crits end up wasting damage overkilling when you do crit, but fun with trips may balance that out for you. Remember that with a trip weapon you get to add all your weapon specific attack bonuses to your trip CMB.
Take the Iron Will when you can, failing will saves sucks.
Would I do better overall if I retrained into falchions or something? While I would hit for less overall damage on a crit, I would crit a fair deal more often.
The math has been done on this question several times, and iirc, a x4 weapon and an 18-20/x2 weapon have the same DPR (assuming similar weapon damage die, which scythe and falchion have). The greater threat range becomes more of a boon when you start having effects that you can apply on critical hits (the Critical Feat tree), but your damage output will always be so close (on average) as to be negligible.
I like the idea of an intimidate secondary function, since my character has max ranks in intimidate despite my low charisma.
I am not lawful though, so I don't think I'll be able to do the monk dip.
I want to take those intimidate feats with the fighter, since I am doing pretty nice damage. With a feat each level, I should be able to work towards getting Deadly Stroke.
It is hard to suggest stuff without knowing the AP or GM style. If you get swarmed a lot, or exist in dungeons with limited space, feats like cleave and whirlwind attack become pretty darn great. If the enemy gets to use mobility, they are horrible.
If you want a bit of hilarity, since you're a Half-Orc I believe you qualify for an Orc's racial Feats.
You said you were the "meat tank", which is why I would specifically suggest these little gems:
Deathless Initiate
Deathless Master
Snag Toughness and Iron Hide (a given if you go for Deathless Master) and you can be the meat-tankiest sumb#&*+ you could ever care to be. And of course, since you're going for a Trip build, Vicious Stomp is likely worthwhile, though again requires a solid Feat tax (Combat Reflexes and Improved Unarmed Strike). Combined with Greater Trip, you get to make two Unarmed Strikes against any foe you trip, which is always nice.
Oh and if you go with the Intimidate thing there's another Orc Feat for that, but I dunno how good it is really: Bullying Blow.
Weapon Specialization has already been mentioned, but bears a bit of repeating. Weapon Specialization (and Greater) and Greater Weapon Focus are generally accepted to be one of the main draws of the Fighter as a damage dealer since they're unique to him.
If you are the party murder machine, consider picking up Furious Focus (APG Feat). It lets you make your first Power Attack attack for the round without taking the penalty. So you're that much more likely to hit at least once a round, and still deal good damage.
If it fits your character concept, a level of barbarian NEVER hurts. +4 to str/con whenever you need it is great. Pick up a second level to get auspicious mark as a rage power, which lets you add 1d6 to the result of any d20 roll, even after you've made the roll.
If you're having fun with the scythe, I'd keep it. Getting a +1 keen scythe or Improved Critical will make it on par with a sword, while still giving you that wicked x4 multiplier.
Finally, be friends with the party mage, and buy him a wand of enlarge person. Have him cast it on you before every fight if possible. That +2 str bonus and the larger weapon are amazing. Going from (8d4) damage on a crit to (8d6) is definitely worth a cheap wand.
Have fun!
If you are the party murder machine, consider picking up Furious Focus (APG Feat). It lets you make your first Power Attack attack for the round without taking the penalty. So you're that much more likely to hit at least once a round, and still deal good damage.
If it fits your character concept, a level of barbarian NEVER hurts. +4 to str/con whenever you need it is great. Pick up a second level to get auspicious mark as a rage power, which lets you add 1d6 to the result of any d20 roll, even after you've made the roll.
If you're having fun with the scythe, I'd keep it. Getting a +1 keen scythe or Improved Critical will make it on par with a sword, while still giving you that wicked x4 multiplier.
Finally, be friends with the party mage, and buy him a wand of enlarge person. Have him cast it on you before every fight if possible. That +2 str bonus and the larger weapon are amazing. Going from (8d4) damage on a crit to (8d6) is definitely worth a cheap wand.
Have fun!
That, and with Enlarge person, I have a 10ft reach and a bonus to CMD. Used with greater trip and felling smash, I can start getting some serious slicing and dicing going.
I think I'm going to take Intimidating prowess at level 5, so that I can have my +7 strength add to my intimidate skill. (Which is on a slight penalty otherwise, -1 cha bonus, but has max ranks+class skill+racial bonus=+8 normally. Add strength and I have +15 intimidate)
I was also going to pick up a composite longbow geared for my massive strength bonus. I know it would cost a bit to have one masterwork made, but I think it would be worth it.
omg greater trip and combat reflexes... REDONK. The provoke for falling, they provoke for standing, they provoke for everything, and you get you hit them each time with combat reflexes. The only restriction is that you cannot take multiple AOO's for a single action... so you're golden.
That was my impression too. However I only have a Dex Bonus +2. So 3 AoO's per turn should be enough for the trip+rise and one more idiot that turn.
Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Scythe), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip.
Well, here's your problem. Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip are not a good idea in the lower levels. You are better off with automatic feats, ones that kick in constantly. And being a Fighter, your defenses suck as a class.
Therefore, I suggest the following: Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Improved Initiative. Go for the fancy stuff LATER, as these will help more now. Second, Dodge and Mobility are your friend, particularly since you are using a 2 handed weapon so your AC is down. Use Mobility to flank, which will be much appreciated by your party.
So how can I re-train my feats and such to switch weapons? I remember somewhere that I can do that, but I don't remember where I read it, or if it was just a 3.5 throwback hallucination.
Every 4 levels you can retrain a Feat.
Not really gonna help ya. Unless you wanted to just retrain Weapon Focus from Scythe to Falchion.
yes, so my suggestion is to dump your current fighter and take a new one. Neato tip, you can take a standard Fighter, and give him the Highlander trait. Suddenly Fighter boy can sneak! Also take Armor Expert so you can wear heavier armor, and it stacks with the armor training thing.
Sorry dude, but it's just too nasty to try to retrofit it, unless your DM is nice and will let you switch out feats.
I personally suggest, if you are going to re-train, you have the feats to get a falcata.
However scythes are cool and if you are having fun go with it; . Things will get better when you get a keen scythe or get Improved Critical feat.
Jeez, falcatas are Sweet.
Too bad they're not light weapons so they could be weapon finesse/Two weapon fighting too...
Would I do better overall if I retrained into falchions or something? While I would hit for less overall damage on a crit, I would crit a fair deal more often.The math has been done on this question several times, and iirc, a x4 weapon and an 18-20/x2 weapon have the same DPR (assuming similar weapon damage die, which scythe and falchion have). The greater threat range becomes more of a boon when you start having effects that you can apply on critical hits (the Critical Feat tree), but your damage output will always be so close (on average) as to be negligible.
Except that you are less likely to be dealing overkill damage on a x2 weapon that crits a lot. Think of it this way, if your 1 swing in 20 that crits with the scythe is on a guy at 5 HP, you've gained nothing. Whereas even if one of your 3 crits in 20 on the falchion hits the guy who is almost dead, you've still got two more that may actually have a significant impact.
That's how I look at things anyway.
We have a two handed fighter with a great sword and cleave and she has been punishing goblins with that at low level. I think her plan is to add vital strike and have the party buffers hit her with enlarge person and lead blades and watch the damage fly into the stupid levels. At least as a fighter, you can dump a feat that proves worthless every 4 levels, so remember that you can test some different techniques and then settle on your favorite.
Cleave is not a good idea in the lower levels. Lemme guess, she didn't take Iron Will or Lighting Reflexes or Improved Initiative?
Fighters are overwhelmingly offensive in nature, so you need to spend their nonFighter feats defensively if possible. Remember, Dodge and Mobility are great in the lower levels, as it sets you up to flank.
Lightning Reflexes is pretty bad advice. A Fighter doesn't need to make reflex saves. He's got hit points for that. Iron Will is good advice. Failed will saves can turn you against your party.
Improved Initiative is also not very good advice. There are many classes which really profit from going first, but the fighter is not among them. There are better places to spend feats.
Dodge is good if you already have a high AC, which is not true for a two-handed fighter. If you want more resilience, get toughness. It also helps with your reflex save ;).
I wouldn't recommend Mobility unless you are going for spring attack.
I second Furious Focus. As longs as you have only one attack, it's basically free damage, since you have Power Attack anyway. Since you are a fighter, you can't really go wrong with Weapon Specialisation. +2 damage isn't huge, but it's always there.
Other feats to consider:
Lunge let's you attack with reach, if you really need to.
Step Up, Following Step & Step Up And Strike will become really useful once you have reliable iterative attacks.
Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Scythe), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip.Well, here's your problem. Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip are not a good idea in the lower levels. You are better off with automatic feats, ones that kick in constantly. And being a Fighter, your defenses suck as a class.
Therefore, I suggest the following: Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Improved Initiative. Go for the fancy stuff LATER, as these will help more now. Second, Dodge and Mobility are your friend, particularly since you are using a 2 handed weapon so your AC is down. Use Mobility to flank, which will be much appreciated by your party.
I would strongly disagree with the statement that 'always-on' feats are stronger than feats which you can activate, for the simple reason that feats you actively use give you options - options which can completely turn the tide of a battle.
----------With something like Lightning Reflexes, you have a 10% increased chance to make a reflex save, which is usually v.s. an AoE effect or breath weapon that does 1d8/level. In other words, at level 4 that feat will stop you from taking 10 damage a mere 10% of the time.
Thus, Lightning Reflexes will save the OP an average of 1 damage/round(10 damage x 10%), but only when fighting something that uses these attacks; against a melee grunt, the feat is worthless.
----------
Contrast that to Power Attack, where the OP can decide to use it against any enemy, dealing an extra 6 damage every round 90% of the time. 10% of the time he would miss where he would normally hit, effectively losing an average of 15 damage(2d4+10).
Thus, Power Attack will give the OP an extra 4 damage/round(6 damage X 90% - 15 damage X 10%). He can use this feat every round, or if fighting something with high AC, simply chose not to use it.
----------
Improved Trip is also better than Lightning Reflexes, since it stops you from provoking an AoO and gives you a 10% better chance at tripping a target.
Assuming an average creature does 10 damage/attack(not unreasonable, since the OP can do 20 on average), a tripped enemy takes an extra 10 damage/round(10 damage X 5 party members X 20% hit bonus) and deals 2 less damage/round(10 damage * 20% miss chance).
Thus, when you trip an enemy with Improved Trip you 'save' on an average of 12 damage/round, compared to Lighting Reflexes where you 'save' an average of 7 damage/round.
Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Scythe), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip.Well, here's your problem. Power Attack, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip are not a good idea in the lower levels. You are better off with automatic feats, ones that kick in constantly. And being a Fighter, your defenses suck as a class.
Therefore, I suggest the following: Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, Improved Initiative. Go for the fancy stuff LATER, as these will help more now. Second, Dodge and Mobility are your friend, particularly since you are using a 2 handed weapon so your AC is down. Use Mobility to flank, which will be much appreciated by your party.
I would strongly disagree with the statement that 'always-on' feats are stronger than feats which you can activate, for the simple reason that feats you actively use give you options - options which can completely turn the tide of a battle.
----------
With something like Lightning Reflexes, you have a 10% increased chance to make a reflex save, which is usually v.s. an AoE effect or breath weapon that does 1d8/level. In other words, at level 4 that feat will stop you from taking 10 damage a mere 10% of the time.Thus, Lightning Reflexes will save the OP an average of 1 damage/round(10 damage x 10%), but only when fighting something that uses these attacks; against a melee grunt, the feat is worthless.
----------
Contrast that to Power Attack, where the OP can decide to use it against any enemy, dealing an extra 6 damage every round 90% of the time. 10% of the time he would miss where he would normally hit, effectively losing an average of 15 damage(2d4+10).Thus, Power Attack will give the OP an extra 4 damage/round(6 damage X 90% - 15 damage X 10%). He can use this feat every round, or if fighting something with high AC, simply chose not to use it.
----------
Improved Trip is also better than Lightning Reflexes, since it stops you from provoking an AoO and gives you a 10% better chance at tripping...
Your maths are very logical! :D
I could not have put it better! (no, really)I'm going to be switching up to falchions, but probably going to stick with trip/intimidate feats to give me a modicum of options in being the big scary murder man for the party of evil. Which is just stupid fun. I don't try thinking too hard about it, I just think once about the options and go.
... So far, so good, rp wise. Now to get me an enchanted falchion.
If you are keeping vanilla non-archetype Fighter (or using an archetype that retains armor training),
you should definitely max out Acrobatics, Tumbling in Medium Armor is a major benefit,
(and Mithril Full Plate counts as Medium for movement purposes so should be a good thing to get when you can)
You should definitely put in at least the # of ranks into acrobatics to increase the fighting defensively bonus,
since you have combat expertise that is a low cost way to maximize the benefit when fighting defensively/total defense.
As a half-orc, you can go for toothy (bonus natural weapon) or sacred tattoo (luck bonus to saves), replacing weak-sauce pseudo-diehard.
If you really want diehard, there is a half-orc feat that gives ferocity,
or the unbreakable fighter archetype that grants diehard and an increasing bunch of immunities.
Feats: iron will, blindfight (you should be fine in the attack bonus category, dealing with miss chance is tougher), lunge, cleave, the sargava companion has a great feat: rhino charge [prereq:power attack and improved bullrush] which lets you ready a partial charge, leaving your move action free...
I would say that an Inquisitor dip could be useful for you, if you can take 3 levels Solo Tactics/Teamwork Feat (which you can switch around) can be very useful.
Lightning Reflexes is pretty bad advice. A Fighter doesn't need to make reflex saves. He's got hit points for that. Iron Will is good advice. Failed will saves can turn you against your party.
Improved Initiative is also not very good advice. There are many classes which really profit from going first, but the fighter is not among them. There are better places to spend feats.
Dodge is good if you already have a high AC, which is not true for a two-handed fighter. If you want more resilience, get toughness. It also helps with your reflex save ;).
I wouldn't recommend Mobility unless you are going for spring attack.
Error. Fighters always benefit from going first, as they can get their attacks in and reduce the number of enemy combatants and thus attack rolls before the others have a chance to react.
Lightning Reflexes is always useful. Hit points are not the only damage one can take from a trap or area effect, if you hadn't noticed.
Dodge is particularly useful for 2 handed Fighters, as they are down 2 points of AC anyway from not using a shield. Mobility is even better, since that flanking bonus is one of the few increases to attack rolls in the game. One can always find bonuses to damage, but just TRY to do the same with bonuses to attack! Plus, flanking helps out the Rogue and other classes to actually connect, seeing as how they don't get the +1 BAB each level.
Seriously man, what game are you playing that you don't pay attention to defenses with a FIGHTER, the most offensively orientated class in the game?!
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People will argue endlessly, but let me say this - your character is awesome, and you will have a fantastic time, if you just build from where he is.
Now for a little meat: Yeah, a better crit chance rocks...especially if you're going to get into the crit activated extras. You will likely have a decent AC...only your saves are a big issue when it comes to defenses...and the reflex is nowhere near as vital as the will save, as some have already mentioned. There is nothing wrong with the concept of being the most brutal killing machine you can be...and depending on the campaign, that trip attack can take you all the way up. I urge you to flatly ignore those that say otherwise...there are bipedal enemies of medium size in every high end game I've ever seen, and in many, they outnumber the monstrous ones. The fact that it won't always work is meaningless.
It's a general truism that every feat you spend on defense is one less on making sure your enemy can't even wiggle, and making your enemy dead and not wiggling is the best defense in existence. It's also true that you want to be able to continue to keep fighting those enemies until that status is achieved. ;)
Error. Fighters always benefit from going first, as they can get their attacks in and reduce the number of enemy combatants and thus attack rolls before the others have a chance to react.
True, but you misrepresented my point. Everyone benefits from going first, but, ceteris paribus, fighters (and melee classes in general) profit less than caster classes. Add to this the particular dynamics of in-party initiative order. As a fighter, you generally want to move after the battlefield has been controlled and the buffs have come up. Compared to this, going before the enemy goes is less important, as long as the control and buffs have been laid down before it's their turn.
So, improved initiative is not absolutely bad, but there are many better options to spend your feats as a melee character.
Lightning Reflexes is always useful. Hit points are not the only damage one can take from a trap or area effect, if you hadn't noticed.
Usually, traps are rare and many offer saves vs. fortitude and will in addition to reflex in many cases, symbols and poison being most prominent. Reflex helps against some battlefield control (the pit spells, entangle, web, grease) but in general is mostly used for area of effect attacks to half damage.
Again, the point is not that Lightning Reflexes is useless (it isn't), but that you have better options at almost every instance of selecting a feat.Dodge is particularly useful for 2 handed Fighters, as they are down 2 points of AC anyway from not using a shield. Mobility is even better, since that flanking bonus is one of the few increases to attack rolls in the game. One can always find bonuses to damage, but just TRY to do the same with bonuses to attack! Plus, flanking helps out the Rogue and other classes to actually connect, seeing as how they don't get the +1 BAB each level.
Mobility does not help you set up flanking positions, it only helps against certain AoOs. Again, this is useful, but there are generally better options. Furthermore, there are cheaper alternatives to get the same benefit: the acrobatics skills, the five foot step, having high movement, teleportation effects once they become commonplace.
Secondly, in general the benefit derived from 1 point of AC increase is relative to the AC you start with. The extreme cases illustrate that. If your opponent needs a 19 to hit you and you push that to a twenty, you have reduced the number of attacks that will hit you by 50%, since instead of 10% (19-20) of attacks being successful, it's now only 5% (20). If on the other hand your opponent would need to roll a two to hit you and push that to a three, the frequency of hits goes from 95% to 90%, a decrease of about 5%.
From this we can conclude that Dodge is more worthwhile, the more other ways you have to increase your AC and less worthwhile, the lower your AC is without it. Dodge is a good feat for an AC focused build and a much less desirable feat for a less defensively oriented build. Since the OP's build is offensively oriented, I have recommended against it.
Seriously man, what game are you playing that you don't pay attention to defenses with a FIGHTER, the most offensively orientated class in the game?!
A Fighter is, if anything, the most "unoriented" class in the game, being able to be shaped into many different forms. It is entirely possible to build a strong AC using a fighter (using heavy armor, shields, combat expertise, the crane style series and, if your a halfling, the cautious fighter feat), but it is nowhere a foregone conclusion based on the class alone.
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omg greater trip and combat reflexes... REDONK. The provoke for falling, they provoke for standing, they provoke for everything, and you get you hit them each time with combat reflexes. The only restriction is that you cannot take multiple AOO's for a single action... so you're golden.
When you provoke an AoO, you do so from your last location. So when a character stands up, he is actually provoking the AoO while still considered prone so he cannot be tripped.
So, improved initiative is not absolutely bad, but there are many better options to spend your feats as a melee character.Usually, traps are rare and many offer saves vs. fortitude and will in addition to reflex in many cases, symbols and poison being most prominent. Reflex helps against some battlefield control (the pit spells, entangle, web, grease) but in general is mostly used for area of effect attacks to half damage.
Mobility does not help you set up flanking positions, it only helps against certain AoOs. Again, this is useful, but there are...
It is simply put always better to take a feat that kicks in each and every round, as opposed to one that has to be activated. Moreover, any feat that allows you to endure more saving throws than any NPC ever would deserves much consideration. Thus, Lightning Reflexes is one of those that should be taken by everyone who has a poor class Reflex save.
Traps are only rare in SOME few campaigns. There happens to be quite a few traps in my games. Dungeon crawls tend to be far more lethal than aboveground campaigns.
Mobility does in fact help extensively in setting up flanking. Ever notice that when you are surrounded, if you want to flank someone you usually end up provoking attacks? I have. Happens all the time.
You know what's cool? Impaling enemies on your scythe.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hamatula-strike-combat
It is simply put always better to take a feat that kicks in each and every round, as opposed to one that has to be activated.
1) In general feats that have to be activated can be activated each round.
2) Simply having a feat active is no benefit, the feat must contribute.3) Improved Initiative kicks in in the first round only. After that it's just actions in sequence.
Moreover, any feat that allows you to endure more saving throws than any NPC ever would deserves much consideration. Thus, Lightning Reflexes is one of those that should be taken by everyone who has a poor class Reflex save.
The math I have presented goes for saves as well as for AC. All things being equal your benefit is almost always greater, the higher your reflex save is before adding LR. Anyone who has a high reflex save has a better reason to take Lightning Reflexes (all else being equal) than anyone with a low save.
Traps are only rare in SOME few campaigns. There happens to be quite a few traps in my games. Dungeon crawls tend to be far more lethal than aboveground campaigns.
Campaigns vary.
Mobility does in fact help extensively in setting up flanking. Ever notice that when you are surrounded, if you want to flank someone you usually end up provoking attacks? I have. Happens all the time.
Mobility helps, but it's not worth a feat.
Always-on feats are no brainers, since you can't forget you have them, and you can't forget to activate them. The more squishy the PC is, the more they desperately need Improved Initiative, for example, or they might not get off their vaunted BOOM before they get nailed. That feat helps out each and every round, since the effects don't stop after that first roll for initiative. You are nitpicking unnecessarily.
One of the things I advise my players is to take the saving throw feats for their poor class saves, because PC's tend to endure a lot more than your standard NPC and are expected to immediately fight off other NPC's on top of making saving throws for debilitating or deadly effects. If the party stops to rest in the dungeon/adventure, the bad guys will react accordingly and muster their remaining forces, meaning the next few battles might not take place WHEN the players want and even worse, might be a lot tougher than they are used to.
Will saves are the least rolled out of all the saves, but the consequences of failure are greater, seeing as how most players hate losing control of their PCs with a passion.
Fort saves seem to be the most often rolled, what with diseases, poisons, and lots of creature effects.
Your typical melee combatant kinda needs good reflex saves, if only to help negate the Fireball the party wizard just chucked! Friendly fire happens too damned often, imho.
Mobility is always worth the feat slot. Getting bonuses to hit is not easy. You can get plenty of bennies to damage, but have you ever noticed how few apply to attack? Go through those feats again, you will see what I mean.
Always-on feats are no brainers, since you can't forget you have them, and you can't forget to activate them.
Well, Warrior is a great class if possible player incompetence in using Class Features at their disposal is a crucial factor, right?
Improved Init is especially good for more squishy characters, even if they are not Casters, but the topic isn't especially squishy characters.He's not saying Improved Init is a bad feat for anybody, he's just analysing relative values,
so if you don't want to get that deep into the analysis, you probably shouldn't nitpick yourself,
just say "I like these Feats for any character" and leave it at that.
I do lean more towards seeing the broad value of Save Feats or even Feats like Dodge and Mobility.
You CAN look at things like a high AC character taking Dodge reduces the chances of getting hit by 50%,
but that isn't really the comparison that matters, what matters is what the Feat DOES,
and in general it is negating hits on you the same amount of the time (n/d20 rolls).
There are some 'limits' that change that, once you are succeeding on a 2 any further attack bonus or saving throw bonus is irrelevant, and any AC bonus which goes beyond what is needed to force the opponent to need a 20 to hit is wasted, but otherwise the feats are doing the same thing for everybody, i.e. negating the effect n/20 times. Those actually mean characters with extremely high save/attack bonuses eventually get less out of further bonuses (although remember iteratives happen at low values), although characters with extremely low bonuses/ACs may not see much actual change from a new bonus if the opposing DCs/attack bonuses they are facing are enough that they still need a Nat 20 Save or the attacker to roll a Nat 1.
But those are the outliers, and things like Save Feats can often be good for characters with Poor Class Saves but who don't dump the relevant Stat and try to pick up other bonuses where they can. That said, there's plenty of things that can be more worthwhile than Dodge, for example, and most characters don't and shouldn't pick up all 6 of the Save Feat series.
Durshakk
Male Half-Orc Fighter 4
NE Medium Humanoid (human, orc)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
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Defense
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AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
hp 46 (4d10+12)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +2 (+1 vs. fear)
Defensive Abilities bravery +1, orc ferocity (1/day)
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Club +9 (1d6+11/x2) and
. . Masterwork Falchion +11 (2d4+18/18-20/x2)
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +4; CMB +11 (+13 Tripping); CMD 23 (25 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Expertise +/-2, Improved Trip, Power Attack -2/+4, Weapon Focus (Falchion), Weapon Specialization (Falchion)
Skills Climb +12, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Perception +5, Ride +6, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +6, Survival +6, Swim +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Abyssal, Common, Goblin, Orc
Other Gear Half-plate, Club, Masterwork Falchion, Belt of giant strength +2, 1200 GP
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Special Abilities
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Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 to Will save vs. Fear
Combat Expertise +/-2 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Improved Trip You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when tripping.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Yay, HeroLab. I didn't have the money to buy the advanced race guide module yet, but I will get almost all of them in there. So swap out for the Scent ability and this is about right.
My DM was okay with allowing me to retrain to falchions before taking my 4th level feat, so I took weapon spec. for falchions. I'm pretty sure it's calculating properly... *maths* yep. 2D4+18 with a +11 attack for normal hits (I have a standing agreement with the DM that I'm always power attacking unless I say I'm not, not the other way around)
With a 18-20 crit threat I have three times the potential to do half as much crit damage. But is it really that different?
At level 3, I was doing 2D4+13 damage with a scythe. I do x4 damage on crit, meaning 8D4+52 on a crit. Min 60 damage, max 84 on crit.
At level 4, I am now doing said 2D4+18 (power attack ups and WS) but only 4D4+36 on a crit. Min 40 damage, max 52 on crit. Still not too shabby, since I threat crit 3 times more often. And with +11 to hit even after power attack, I think there's a good chance I can confirm.
Based on min damage alone for crits and only counting the crits off 20 rolls (resulting 1-20):
Scythe: 60
Falchion: 120
Let's assume they're both on even ground base level stats etc.
With PA and WS Both do 2S4+18 for me. Now count crit damage.
Scythe: 86
Falchion: 120
Better scythe damage, for sure, but how much of it is overkill for that one strike?
Throw in a keen weapon instead:
Scythe: 172
Falchion: 240
Well, Falchion starts to pull ahead.
That's how I look at numbers. This does not take into account overkill or how often will I hit.
As for the other feats and functions, I'll take Intimidating Prowess with level 5, Iron will at level 6, and then Greater trip soon as I can.
I used the word "warrior" to connote not the NPC class, but the various PC classes that have a +1 BAB every level.
Even relatively speaking, Imp Init is useful. I can't count the number of times I've rolled badly for my NPC initiative, and wished I had a better score so as to get the drop on the PC group.
I didn't say to get all 6 saving throw feats, just the first 3, the ones that actually improve the score itself. In general, one should always get the saving throw feats for one's poor class saves. They're just too useful to ignore.
I have to say that I don't like this trend of making characters purely offensive in nature. Makes for glass cannons, this "optimizing" nonsense. I run a nasty campaign, and I don't want my PC's to fall apart at the least little challenge.