Building a Rogue


Advice

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Leonardo Trancoso wrote:

I like the Rogue + Bow build.

Ex.: Human rogue LV 10

Str 20 (16 + 4belt) Dex 20 (18 + 2 lvl)

Main feats:
- Composie Long Bow Proficience
- Deadly aim
- Rapid Shot

Items: Boots of Speed, Sniper Goggles.

Thats nice, but doesn't it hose over the party tank because he can't flank? Also, it requires you have a lot of room to maneuver and a lot of visibility, neither of which are present in dungeons.


Proioxis wrote:

Hey all, I'm soon to be joining my first ever game of Pathfinder (or any tabletop RPG, for that matter) and I need some advice on how to build the Rogue I'm hoping to play.

I want to be something akin to a fencer, quick on his feet, in and out of the melee...

How would you feel about a Swashbuckler rogue who takes Scimitar as his Martial Weapon proficiency. Keep the Uncanny Dodge and Improved UD. Go at least 8 lvls Rogue, 10 would work too since you could pick an advanced talent. If you are Human you can get Dervish Dance at lvl 1 and then after lvl 8 or 10 go into Duelist. You can get up to 5d6 of SA damage, plus a flat +1 damage per level of Duelist. You could always go into Duelist earlier if you want to get those abilities sooner. Duelist also has a Fighter BAB progression.


If you want a 2 hander rogue try this:
Your stat array should look like this ++DEX>+CON>STR>INT>WIS>-CHA
r1 sneak attack 1d6, imp initiative, weapon finesse
r3 sneak attack 2d6, exotic weapon, Elven Curve Blade (ECB). A finesseable 2 hand weapon (deals 1d10 damage).
r5 sneak attack 3d6, desperate battler (gives you +1/+1 if you have no allies within 10 feet). Good for use on the surprise round. Alternately you can substitute a feat that gives you an extra 1d6 of sneak attack @ BAB +3 (sorry, I don't remember the name of the feat).
r7 sneak attack, 4d6, power attack (crank up that 2 handed weapon damage).
r9 sneak attack, 5d6, vital strike
r10 advanced talent (opportunist)
r11 sneak attack, 7d6, improved critical ECB
Make your ECB agile so you can add DEX to damage. Then add weapon pluses when you can. Also start working on step up & strike and maybe critical focus.

Silver Crusade

I'm sorry, but Alejandro's build is fairly terrible. You waste points in Str so you can take Power Attack. Just build a Str-based rogue. Youc an get similar AC, and eventually all of your Dex-based skills will be more than high enough. Plus, if you play a ninja instead of a rogue, you can just use a katana rather than wasting a feat on the ECB.

In another thread, I posted a level 10 ninja build that does over 50 DPR. It's not the top of the DPR charts, but it's more than respectable.


A Dex-based Magus with Dervish Dance actually makes a damn good duelist. He even gets a pseudo-full BAB on maneuvers with the right Arcana.

Defensive combat Training gives him good CMD to resist said maneuvers.

He compensates for his lack of full BAB through buffs and Arcanas like "Arcane Precision" (or whatever the name is) that lets him add Int to attack rolls.

I'm not sure how one could build an effective dueling Rogue... Rogues are too feat starved and can't overcome their medium BAB, so they don't make good duelists.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:

If you want a 2 hander rogue try this:

Your stat array should look like this ++DEX>+CON>STR>INT>WIS>-CHA
r1 sneak attack 1d6, imp initiative, weapon finesse
r3 sneak attack 2d6, exotic weapon, Elven Curve Blade (ECB). A finesseable 2 hand weapon (deals 1d10 damage).
r5 sneak attack 3d6, desperate battler (gives you +1/+1 if you have no allies within 10 feet). Good for use on the surprise round. Alternately you can substitute a feat that gives you an extra 1d6 of sneak attack @ BAB +3 (sorry, I don't remember the name of the feat).
r7 sneak attack, 4d6, power attack (crank up that 2 handed weapon damage).
r9 sneak attack, 5d6, vital strike
r10 advanced talent (opportunist)
r11 sneak attack, 7d6, improved critical ECB
Make your ECB agile so you can add DEX to damage. Then add weapon pluses when you can. Also start working on step up & strike and maybe critical focus.

edit: forget power attack. Use Piranha strike.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:
edit: forget power attack. Use Piranha strike.

Pihrana strike only works on light weapons :P pretty sure elven blade doesn't apply


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I'm sorry, but Alejandro's build is fairly terrible. You waste points in Str so you can take Power Attack. Just build a Str-based rogue. Youc an get similar AC, and eventually all of your Dex-based skills will be more than high enough. Plus, if you play a ninja instead of a rogue, you can just use a katana rather than wasting a feat on the ECB.

In another thread, I posted a level 10 ninja build that does over 50 DPR. It's not the top of the DPR charts, but it's more than respectable.

I always say power attack. I meant Piranha strike. Is the Katana fineseable?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Proioxis wrote:

Hey all, I'm soon to be joining my first ever game of Pathfinder (or any tabletop RPG, for that matter) and I need some advice on how to build the Rogue I'm hoping to play.

I want to be something akin to a fencer, quick on his feet, in and out of the melee. I want to avoid TWF, because that seems to be the standard way of getting the most out of a rogue in combat, and I want to do something more... creative? Unusual? I dunno, something that isn't seen as often. That said, I also don't care so much about creativity that I'm willing to sacrifice significant combat ability for it. Planning ahead, the rogue talents I've largely dedicated to making my out of combat rogue skills more efficient, except for Finesse Rogue and Weapon Training (which I intend to use for Rapier), although Deadly Sneak, Fast Tumble, and Bleeding Attack are all tempting.

The feats, however, I'm not sure on. So far the only ones I've been keeping fairly firmly are Dodge, Mobility, Dazzling Display, and Shatter Defenses. I want other skills that compliment disabling opponents, keeping them flat-footed, and navigating the battlefield so I can sneak attack them. I was thinking stuff like Agile Maneuvers + the Trip tree, Repositioning Strike, Sneaking Precision, Critical Focus, Improved Critical, Blinding Critical, and Tripping Strike to tie together the Critical and Trip feats. But as I've never played before, I'm not sure how well it might work in combat. It might even be poor on paper, I don't know.

That pretty much wraps it up. Looking at it, I don't think I actually NEED Dodge and Mobility for prerequisites for any of these feats, so I may drop them to make for others. Maybe drop a rogue talent for Combat Trick so I can get another feat. I could also go Swashbuckler for the extra Combat Trick so I could have Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses + 10 of the feats I was considering. Obviously the campaign or the character may not last nearly that long, but I like to plan way in advance. Even if this is fine, or needs only minor...

I have this build but I've gone about it in a slightly different manner. More rogue, less not rogue.

Fighter 1 (Lorewarden)/Rogue 7 (You could take scout here, it wasn't an option when I built him)/Duelist

I went 13 Str/16 Dex/12 Con/15 Int/10 Wis/8 Cha

1:Power Attack, Dodge
3:Rogue Finesse, Dervish Dance
5:Combat Trick: Step up, Following Step
7:Mobility, Trapspotter
9:Step up and strike
11:Spring Attack

The logic here is that you'll end up with a crazy AC, decent HP, awesome damage and great mobility. I one hand attack with a crazy damage modifier, am basically untouchable (37 AC not moving, 23 Touch AC unbuffed).
11:

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I'm sorry, but Alejandro's build is fairly terrible. You waste points in Str so you can take Power Attack. Just build a Str-based rogue. Youc an get similar AC, and eventually all of your Dex-based skills will be more than high enough. Plus, if you play a ninja instead of a rogue, you can just use a katana rather than wasting a feat on the ECB.

In another thread, I posted a level 10 ninja build that does over 50 DPR. It's not the top of the DPR charts, but it's more than respectable.

I always say power attack. I meant Piranha strike. Is the Katana fineseable?

Piranha strike doesn't work on Rapiers or Katanas. The weapon must be light.

I know I'll probably get drowned out, but I love evasion. Especially as a front liner. It's one of the primary reasons I go Rogue over Ninja. Evasion has saved my life so many times, especially on lower hit point builds.

Silver Crusade

No the katana is not finessable, which is why it's a Str based ninja.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
No the katana is not finessable, which is why it's a Str based ninja.

I wasn't sure what Alejandro was alluding to, not you. I am just making sure that someone using a Katana or ECB doesn't dump a feat on Piranha Strike and then can't use it since his weapon isn't light.

Liberty's Edge

Proioxis wrote:
OP post

Hi and welcome. Ignore the "Rogues are the Suxor" people, they don't actually like to play the game, only do math equations and criticize anyone who doesn't powergame as the One True Way.

Sad really.

As to how to make the thing you want, you are going to want to max your dex and take weapon finesse as your 2nd level rogue talent as you said.

Don't be afraid to go with a class like halfling. If the Advanced race guide is allowed you can get 30ft of movement, plus you get a +1 to hit and AC, as well as +4 to Stealth and bonuses to perception.

Your +2 to Dex and Charisma help your concept, and that -2 to strength will be mostly overcome by you being a dex build focusing on sneak attack.

You are on the right track with the rapier critical stuff.

Good luck and have fun!


Obviously, Ciretose, once again you are just completely missing the-

wait...

Ngggggh...

Hrrrrghtttt...

I...I agree with Ciretose.

Liberty's Edge

Lamontius wrote:

Obviously, Ciretose, once again you are just completely missing the-

wait...

Ngggggh...

Hrrrrghtttt...

I...I agree with Ciretose.

:)


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
edit: forget power attack. Use Piranha strike.
Pihrana strike only works on light weapons :P pretty sure elven blade doesn't apply

If you can finesse the weapon, you can use Piranha strike. ECB is a finesse weapon when used 2 handed.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
edit: forget power attack. Use Piranha strike.
Pihrana strike only works on light weapons :P pretty sure elven blade doesn't apply
If you can finesse the weapon, you can use Piranha strike. ECB is a finesse weapon when used 2 handed.

Bit of a necro, going over my old posts and saw a dangling unmentionable.

Benefit: When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus on damage rolls increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before the attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. This feat cannot be used in conjunction with the Power Attack feat.

This says nothing about the condition for use being finessable, it says light.

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