Goblin Squad Member
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I've always liked the sagas of mmorpg players of SWG when Jedi were RARE. Why?
In the universe: <1%
In the game: <5% ?
Part of the definition of "Jedi" is it's frequency ie 1:1,000,000 or something is probably in the lore of that IP (I have no idea)?
The same definition criteria probably needs to be used if you use certain "non-core" races? Not all, but certainly some.
If you have higher frequency of players being Jedi, they are not Jedi. It's the same fallacy of mmorpgs: "everyone is a hero or saviour of the world" (white) = a blank story.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fantasizing well beyond the minimally viable product I think it would be great to include a rich 'monster-play' facility in PFO.
The system I think I would prefer is that the player can purchase a session of monster play from the GW store that enables one session of monster play.
The player would be able to select the type of monster (more powerful=more expensive=better loot) but not where that monster would spawn. The monster would not get an in-game map, and it would spawn in a random spot remote from any settlement. He would have a 'session' potentially four hours in which to rampage, and would carry a desirable item to drop if beaten.
So if I purchased an Ogre I would have four hours to discover where I spawned, determine how to get the item I carry near to the settlement/entity I wish to enhance, and make it there without getting myself killed.
Naturally I would role-play the opportunity the best I could, and fight hard to give my fellow players a good time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fantasizing well beyond the minimally viable product I think it would be great to include a rich 'monster-play' facility in PFO.
The system I think I would prefer is that the player can purchase a session of monster play from the GW store that enables one session of monster play.
The player would be able to select the type of monster (more powerful=more expensive=better loot) but not where that monster would spawn. The monster would not get an in-game map, and it would spawn in a random spot remote from any settlement. He would have a 'session' potentially four hours in which to rampage, and would carry a desirable item to drop if beaten.
So if I purchased an Ogre I would have four hours to discover where I spawned, determine how to get the item I carry near to the settlement/entity I wish to enhance, and make it there without getting myself killed.
Naturally I would role-play the opportunity the best I could, and fight hard to give my fellow players a good time.
I really can't see any harm in something like that, Being. Only fun and possible relief from the boredom of same-old same-old. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really can't see any harm in something like that, Being. Only fun and possible relief from the boredom of same-old same-old. :)Fantasizing well beyond the minimally viable product I think it would be great to include a rich 'monster-play' facility in PFO.
The system I think I would prefer is that the player can purchase a session of monster play from the GW store that enables one session of monster play.
The player would be able to select the type of monster (more powerful=more expensive=better loot) but not where that monster would spawn. The monster would not get an in-game map, and it would spawn in a random spot remote from any settlement. He would have a 'session' potentially four hours in which to rampage, and would carry a desirable item to drop if beaten.
So if I purchased an Ogre I would have four hours to discover where I spawned, determine how to get the item I carry near to the settlement/entity I wish to enhance, and make it there without getting myself killed.
Naturally I would role-play the opportunity the best I could, and fight hard to give my fellow players a good time.
I think the best use is not only for the individual but also for other player characters out in the wilds or otherwise more tailored to other RP scenarios or otherwise. If there are conditions of rating or otherwise positive feedback on the role of the player taking such a role, which feeds back to a discount etc, there's potential there maybe.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Agreed AvenaOats. By "fun" I do mean fun for the player/monsters as well as "fun" for the random PCs that he/she comes across and the "fun" generated by making it an RP event. :)
Yes, you know in Skyrim they have a very sound system of dragons autonomously flying around and responding very proactively to players and even fighting other monsters if they trundle into them.
But for all the good of that system, players still ended up feeling that these mighty flying Dragons could be somewhat "cheesed" (either pathing or through abusing low level xp gains) and actually ended up saying "the roaring of a wild bear" out of sight and getting closer put more fear in them than a flying dragon!
Give players a "roar" ability too for eg!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lets say that every idea that can be exploited will be exploited by players. Second IF they wanted to put in alternate Races, I would suggest Adding Templates Acquirable In game at lets say level 16 or so. This would allow players and developers around a year and a half to get in to there characters and produce the templates to be available. So a 16 level character wants to become lets say a ware of some type they can then go to some designated area and perform some ritual or something and attain the template. To keep the balance make the added abilities cost XP and since ability scores have no real affect in game besides being allowed to train certain feats and abilities giving a character a visual change and some new trainable powers would be balanced and provide a greater range of versatility in player choice.
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Goblin Squad Member
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At least for the first experiment, I think I would be more comfortable with an additional race with a Race Point total equal to or lesser than the core races, rather than were-critters or vampires, which represent a substantial gain in power compared to the pre-infection/pre-undeath version of the character's race.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree with KarlBob.
(I would point out though that the Pathfinder werewolf template is only CR+1, which equals LA+1. LA+1 becomes negligible around level 5 or 6 for PCs.)
I wasn't aware of that. I would have thought it raised the CR more than that. In that case, I'll reserve my hesitation for vampires (Unless that template is also CR+1).
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Goblin Squad Member
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CR is pointless in adding a template to a player in a MMO, If all u do is give a player some new powers that are scaled and a new sprite to make them more unique then there is no harm done. Also doing it at a higher level would minimize any change in power between players. Since they stated in the blog that even being high level wont make you Un-killable. For something like a vampire having powers like flight wouldn't be any different then a wizard casting flight. All of the abilities any template would get would just be a way for fighter type or mage types to get a few abilities they wouldn't normally get. Being restricted to what you have on your passive slots and active slots limits this as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Avena, I am not aware of any skills that would allow this. Handle Animal and Animal Empathy wouldn't give the result you are looking for, and as their names imply, they only work on natural animals. Monstrous creatures can't be influenced by them, not even monstrous mounts. I suppose it may be possible for PfO to include something that would, but it isn't part of PFRPG Core. For what you are looking to do, as far as I know, only spells will accomplish it.
As for non-common and exotic races, I hope some do get added, but down the line once all the advanced classes are added. A Tengu Ninja or Samurai would be awesome, or a Rat Folk or Cat Folk Rogue, or even a Kobold Rogue or Fighter (tail whip is cool, and natural stealth very helpful). Heck, a Dhampire Undead Hunter (Paladin or Cleric, or maybe a Wizard [Necromancer who uses his/her skills to put down Undead] or Undead bloodline Sorcerer that does the same as the Wizard, not to mention an Inquisitor) would also be a very cool combo. My only hope, as stated above is that the various "non-Core" classes get added first (though I won't miss Gunslinger if it is left out, but that is personal preference) before any race from the Advanced race Guide is introduced. Just MHO, but I'd like to see versatility for the core races first.
Given GW's desire to have PfO last a long, long time, there will be plenty of time to introduce as much of PFRPG as they are allowed to do so given the OGL limitations. I think they will do just that, but it will likely take some time, but hey, I plan on spending two-and-a-half years working on my Wizard alone :)
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...Just from what I generally see in tabletop games, though, I've learned to be wary about allowing monsters as PCs in Golarion.
Here's a known fact: Look for Good, Lawful or even Neutral goblins in all of Pathfinder's books and modules. Look for Good kobolds or orcs.
Sure, there might be one or two. One or two.
That number grows in an MMO way more than it should. Golarion is not a setting for monstrous heroes. Period.
I don't know if it will help, but I believe there's actually a canon precedent in the Pathfinder universe: the quite popular "We Be Goblins!" and upcoming sequel "We Be Goblins, Too!" adventures, with Mogmurch, Reta Bigbad, Chuffy Lickwound, and Poog of Zarongel as playable PC Goblin heroes in the first adventure (and, reportedly, in the second adventure as well).
If the reviews of "We Be Goblins!" are anything to go by, players everywhere actually do get into the right spirit of things and play the Goblin heroes in character, and have a lot of fun doing so. I would suggest it worked because of the fabulous and memorable Pathfinder Goblin artwork, the vivid and exciting "fluff" in the books which helped visualize how the Goblins think and act, and the other great support found in the module and other source materials for creating a believable and detailed world for these creatures to live in. Good character models, artwork, animations, and level/area design should accomplish that in an MMORPG medium.
A number of users have suggested charging extra to play monster races to discourage playing them.
I'm going to try something different, and suggest the opposite:
Take a monster race - I suggest the Goblins. Place upon them a low level cap, perhaps maximum of Level 3 (or, the PFO equivalent). And, make them FREE to play, for test-drive and preview accounts.
By their nature, they will likely attract the trolls and troublemakers, but the damage that could be done is limited, and trolling and troublemaking is really not far out of character for them. They'll proliferate in great numbers as special-snowflake types whose lives are cheap, but then what else would you expect from monstrous humanoid mooks? They will probably get kicked around a bit in PvP by players who get sick of Goblin griefing, and that's totally in-character as well. The monster PCs who are able to get along and organize and subsist in that environment by making themselves useful to more traditional PC races might actually carve out a civilized niche for themselves, and those who are able to organize may be able to alternatively launch monster sieges and become real threats to an extent, but eventually players are going to want to pay out the money to move on and become something other than the lowest-common-denominator chew-toys of the game world.
So, let us go forth with the battle cry, "Free Goblins!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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Take a monster race - I suggest the Goblins. Place upon them a low level cap, perhaps maximum of Level 3 (or, the PFO equivalent). And, make them FREE to play, for test-drive and preview accounts.
Exactly: Different progress path -> different gameplay objective: Namely act crazed and short-term and cannon-fodder variant of fun.
Perhaps free to play but with privilege condition for players who have high reputation or otherwise deemed "good sportsmanship" elsewhere. Also have productive activities for Goblins too: So they are perhaps going around creating goblin villages around monster hexes for npc goblins - so it's not always combat mode. Even if the rate of creating goblin tribal villages is slow, still rewarding for the "goblin player".
Additionally/alternatively: Log in as a Goblin x2 a fortnight or month as a limit. So players could organise to log in as goblins all at once or just log in and mess around individually as a Goblin. Perhaps log-ins or duration as Goblin credit earnt?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@yronimos
I love the concept of your idea.
It does raise, in my mind, a disturbing possibility that might turn out to be not so rare and not so situational. We know that the power curve will not be steep, "level 3" equivalent masses of free to play goblins could be quite significant.
As FTP they may not know much about the game and how to do a lot of real damage. If you throw in "experienced" players to guide and organize them, they could become very significant and dangerous. Private little FTP armies that burn Points of Interest with nothing to lose and bad/wrong/fun to gain. Very attractive to the elements of the nasty side of MMO gaming.
With a lot of safeguards and restrictions, your idea could be very entertaining though. So Cudos! for that. :)
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Better yet, limit playable Goblins to Goblin Squad members and make it a KS add-on.
I understand why you might want that, but some of us were short on funds when the kickstarter was rolling. Plus I found out about it late. Don't you already get a bunch of stuff without making it harder for me to be a goblin?