Help with new Rogue


Advice


Hi all,

I've only played a couple of sessions in PFS and ended up with a half elf Rogue. I am enjoying it so far, but I will level up soon and find it a bit daunting.

Here are my stats as it stands (any tweaks here are welcome as I believe you can do that until you level up):

STR 14
DEX 19
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 12
CHA 7

As for feats, I have Weapon Finesse and Skill Focus (Perception). Right now I have a rapier and a light crossbow, but I like the idea of dual wielding hand crossbows at a distance and then switching to short swords or something up close. I've read some of the threads on dual wield and it looks like it may be more trouble than it's worth, but it would just be really cool if I could work it out.

I am enjoying the stealthy aspects of the character, so help me out- better to focus on a single weapon and tons of sneak attack damage (which I assume will go up either way) or is the TWF idea workable?

Also, I took Craft (Alchemy) and plan to do interesting things with it, either taking Craft (Weapons) and making my own crossbow bolts with various nasty things in them or focusing more on poisons.

So if I read right I get another feat and a Rogue Talent when I level? And how many skill points?

Thanks in advance for all the pointers!

Edit: I realize that is a godawful CHA stat, but we have two other party members that are awesome at Diplomacy, etc.


First and foremost, I would recommend doing something that captures your imagination. That being said, you are going to have a hard time playing at later levels if your build is not thoughtful.

your main body of reading should be here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m612?Guide-to-the-Class-Guides

Read the rogue guides they have sound advice. However, don't make the mistake of going solely by what they recommend. This is a game of imagination and if doing a dual wielding short sword build (among the more popular options) does't sound fun to you, take the majority of the advice given, but make sure to leave some feat and talent slots for stuff that just sounds fun.

At level two, you will receive evasion as a "free" feat. You will also get a rogue talent. Rogues get 8+INT mod skill points (9 in your case)Rogue being your favored class, (Right?) will grant you either an extra skill point, an extra hit point, or a race specific benefit. Most go for the extra HP.


If you want a 2 hander rogue try this:
Your stat array should look like this ++DEX>+CON>STR>INT>WIS>-CHA
r1 sneak attack 1d6, imp initiative, weapon finesse
r3 sneak attack 2d6, exotic weapon, Elven Curve Blade (ECB). A finesseable 2 hand weapon (deals 1d10 damage).
r5 sneak attack 3d6, desperate battler (gives you +1/+1 if you have no allies within 10 feet). Good for use on the surprise round. Alternately you can substitute a feat that gives you an extra 1d6 of sneak attack @ BAB +3 (sorry, I don't remember the name of the feat).
r7 sneak attack, 4d6, power attack (crank up that 2 handed weapon damage).
r9 sneak attack, 5d6, vital strike
r10 advanced talent (opportunist)
r11 sneak attack, 6d6, improved critical ECB
Make your ECB agile so you can add DEX to damage. Then add weapon pluses when you can. Also start working on step up & strike and maybe critical focus.


My Knife Fighter is a similar build.
It's half-elf and I swapped out the Adaptability for Dual Minded (to beef up the Will Save).
I took the first level as Fighter (for the HP and the proficiency with All Martial), the other 3 levels (as he's 4th now) as Rogue (Knife Master Archtype)
S:12
D:19 (Includes level 4 and racial bumps)
Co:12
I:14
W:14
Ch:7
Char-1 Feat: Weapon Finesse
Ftr-1 Feat: 2 Weapon Fighting
Char-3 Feat: Weapon Focus(Kukri)
Rog-2 Talent: Combat Trick(2 Weapon Defense)

With a flank, the character currently attacks with a +9 with a single Mithral Kukri, or +7/+7 with a pair. Primary deals 1D4+2D8+1 and off does 1D4+2D8+0.

My maxed out skills are Acrobatics, Climb, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth.
These skills have 1 rank each: Appraise, Knowledge Dungeoneering, Engineering, and Local, and Linguistics.

Now, since the Knife Master loses Trapfinding and Trap Sense, most people would think, "Why bother with Disable Device?" Because you can still disable machanical traps... AND locks and since I'm usually the closest thing to a Rogue in the group...


I'm shocked that the other posts weren't "LOL Rogues suck, play a a Bard/Vivisectionist/UrbanRanger/etc". Sort of refreshing actually.


I've always been a fan of the Rogue class. It's great on its own or when used to suppliment other classes. They're even better when you use other classes to suppliment the Rogue. 5 levels of straight Fighter can up your effectivness with your particular weapon of chioce with access to Weapon Spec and the Weapon Training 1. The Armor Training 1 makes that Mithral Chain Shirt viable a lot longer too with the additional +1 to Max Dex (from +6 to +7). The extra BAB and Fort doesn't hurt either.

5 or 6 levels of Monk with the rest Rogue makes for a super fast sneak thief/hit and run kind of build.

Rouge mixed with Ranger can be pretty dirty too. And these are just a few martial suggestions.

Rogue with Wizard or Sorcerer? Pretty fun.
I've been toying with the idea for a Rogue-Cleric build. Channel Smite Sneak Attack anyone?

Silver Crusade

You can't actually craft anything in PFS unless you're an alchemist or a gunslinger, so that idea is right out the window. Wielding a single weapon will probably do more damage for you in the end. Consider taking a level 1 rebuild and taking the half-elf alternate racial trait Ancestral Arms to get yourself proficiency with an Elven curve blade.

And for god's sake, ignore Alejandro's post. Any thread where somebody even mentions rogues he pops in and pastes that post in no matter how many times people tell him it's terrible.

As a half-elf, how do you have 2 feats at level 1? You might want to consider not taking weapon finesse with a feat slot and taking the Finess Rogue rogue talent at level 2.

Sczarni

If dual-wielding appeals to you, you certainly picked the right class for it. Getting in multiple sneak attacks per round will make you a regular buzz-saw when you want to be.

Dual-wielding hand crossbows is very difficult due to the fact that you need to hold the crossbow in one hand and reload a new bolt into it with the other hand. Firing and re-loading two practically requires you juggle them.

In addition, it's much harder to sneak attack repeatedly with ranged weapons than it is with melee weapons. In melee, all you have to do is flank, but at range you need to make a fresh Stealth check with every attack, at a -20 penalty, and once he sees you the jig's up. I'd recommend sneaking up to the enemy with a dagger in your off-hand and your crossbow in your main hand, opening combat with a well-placed crossbow bolt, then drawing your rapier and moving in to finish the job.

@Bigdaddyjug: Half-elves get Skill Focus as a bonus feat.

Silver Crusade

I knew I was missing something extremely obvious and right in front of my face, I just couldn't figure out what it was.

Oddly enough, that and the ability to get Elven curve blade proficiency are 2 of the reasons I was making my next PFS ninja a half-elf. Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, get a wand of Lead Blades and be doing 2d8 + 18 + 5d6 damage per attack at level 10.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
You can't actually craft anything in PFS unless you're an alchemist or a gunslinger, so that idea is right out the window.

If he wants to focus on crafting poisons in PFS he can do so with a Poisoner Rogue as well.


make him a strangler. This lets you SA grappled victims.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:

If you want a 2 hander rogue try this:

Your stat array should look like this ++DEX>+CON>STR>INT>WIS>-CHA
r1 sneak attack 1d6, imp initiative, weapon finesse
r3 sneak attack 2d6, exotic weapon, Elven Curve Blade (ECB). A finesseable 2 hand weapon (deals 1d10 damage).
r5 sneak attack 3d6, desperate battler (gives you +1/+1 if you have no allies within 10 feet). Good for use on the surprise round. Alternately you can substitute a feat that gives you an extra 1d6 of sneak attack @ BAB +3 (sorry, I don't remember the name of the feat).
r7 sneak attack, 4d6, power attack (crank up that 2 handed weapon damage).
r9 sneak attack, 5d6, vital strike
r10 advanced talent (opportunist)
r11 sneak attack, 6d6, improved critical ECB
Make your ECB agile so you can add DEX to damage. Then add weapon pluses when you can. Also start working on step up & strike and maybe critical focus.

He could give up Skill Focus and gain Proficiency with the ECB for free as a racial trait using Ancestral Arms. And it gives him a free feat.

I wouldn't bother with a STR over 13, just get Power Attack and make your ECB Agile.
Don't waste your valuable 1st feat on Weapon Finesse, when you level to 2, change it up so you can get the Finesse Rogue Talent, and swap that feat out for something else (Combat Reflexes is really good).
Shadow Strike is a very important feat to pick up at some point.

Personally, I would try switching Skill Focus for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dueling Sword) since you can use it with weapon Finesse, and use it with a short sword in the off-hand, take two-weapon fighting and Finesse Rogue at level 2, and get Agile Weapons by lvl 8-ish, the first one being the Dueling Sword.

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