The loss of two beloved factions [mild spoilers]


Pathfinder Society

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4/5 *

Netopalis wrote:
Afraid so, Red. On the plus side, you probably have time to build a SL PC up to the point where they can play in this before August.

Well then I am going to be running this. Why did they decide to make it 3-7?

Grand Lodge 5/5

Probably cause it would allow the most people to play the scenario and get the reward. It's not very hard to get a character up to level 3 in time to get these scenarios in before mid August. If this was any higher it would be very difficult to get. There are many fewer 7-11 players.

I wonder if I used a level 4 or 7 pregen on a character # that was shadow lodge at the time I could apply the boon when I got to the appropriate level?

4/5 *

5-9 would have made as much sense I think.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Amazing Red wrote:
5-9 would have made as much sense I think.

Would be nice if it was 'supersized' to allow encounters for 3-9, or better still all levels :-)

Dark Archive

So on the blog the campaign staff heavily implied that the ending of the Shadow Lodge is going to blindside us all with a crazy twist.

Thoughts?

My money is that Grandmaster Torch is revealed to have been the Raksasha master of the Aspis Consortium THE WHOLE TIME!!!

4/5 *

Victor Zajic wrote:

So on the blog the campaign staff heavily implied that the ending of the Shadow Lodge is going to blindside us all with a crazy twist.

Thoughts?

My money is that Grandmaster Torch is revealed to have been the Raksasha master of the Aspis Consortium THE WHOLE TIME!!!

What a twist!

Yea, I would have liked have played my one SL PC since he fits the SL pretty well. I mean I can level my LL PC to 3 to play it Way of the Kirin, but I would have liked the closure. Guess Ashur will take the paracountess up on her offer..

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite.
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

4/5 *

So that means we get the full reward even if we're applying it out of tier, Mike?

4/5

Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

Excellent! Thanks very much. Helps to be able to plan ahead for this.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

Would this also work for GM credit on a character in tier?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Amazing Red wrote:
So that means we get the full reward even if we're applying it out of tier, Mike?

Sure

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Preston Hudson wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

Would this also work for GM credit on a character in tier?

Sure

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

Thanks for clarifying!

Rats, now I have to decide if I want to level my druid to 12 and go through EOTS next week or use another character...

4/5 *

Sweet. Thanks Mike!

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

Michael Brock wrote:
Preston Hudson wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

Would this also work for GM credit on a character in tier?
Sure

Many thanks on the reply.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

So I guess I'm out of luck for my one SL character that is about to (hopefully) finish Eyes of the Ten this weekend?

Oh well, my LL Tengu will still get to have fun before going Sczarni :)

Scarab Sages 4/5

Just had a thought. Will Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge continue to have faction missions in the season 4 scenarios following their retirement scenarios? 4-22 to 4-26 for LL, 4-24 to 4-26 for SL. Or would it be best to pick a new faction after playing their final scenarios, especially if you want your success or failure "counted?"

Silver Crusade 4/5

Michael Meunier wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
redward wrote:

Does anyone know if you can apply the GM credit to an out-of-tier character that is retired?

For example, my Shadow Lodge character is level 11. Do I need to save one of her last XP slots for the GM credit for Rivalry's End?

Yes, for 4-21 and 4-23, GM credit may be applied outside of tier range so characters who are deserving receive the "end game" reward for both factions.

Yes, save one of her last XP slots for GM credit.

So I guess I'm out of luck for my one SL character that is about to (hopefully) finish Eyes of the Ten this weekend?

Oh well, my LL Tengu will still get to have fun before going Sczarni :)

I might GM this just to put the Shadow Lodge boon on my level 14 PC, just in case I ever get around to playing him again. Then again, I might look to see how good the boon is, along with the rest of the loot on this thing, and just apply it to one of my other, non-SL, PCs instead (who are actually in the 3-7 range).

For Lantern Lodge, I just need to get my level 2 LL member up to 3 in time to play Way of the Kirin.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Netopalis wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

.

Shadow Lodge wanted to keep the 10 from abusing Pathfinders. Done-ish.
Have you PLAYED Season 4?

Or 5, 3, 2, 1, or 0?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Silly question.

How is the change over going to be done in the profile?

That is, how does a player make the change over for the faction he/she is gonna go into from the retired faction?

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

My understanding, from announcements made at the beginning of Season 4, is that the factions on the cutting block were the ones which accomplished the lowest percentage of faction missions

Someone brought up the question to the campaign leadership at the time and they explained that, no, it's not a question of size of faction membership (Andoran would win, hands down) but how successful the factions were at accomplishing their goals. 90 successful missions out of 100 would be better than 120 successful missions out of 200.

If that criteria changed, I missed it.


TimD wrote:

Very disappointed at the loss of Shadow Lodge.

It was one of the things that actually made me start playing in PFS a few months ago.

-TimD

I have to agree, I like playing those who watch the watchers..

to be honest my Ninja's entire reason for being in the pathfinders is now shot.

I wish there was a REAL way to be unaligned

5/5 5/55/55/5

Chris Mortika wrote:

My understanding, from announcements made at the beginning of Season 4, is that the factions on the cutting block were the ones which accomplished the lowest percentage of faction missions

Someone brought up the question to the campaign leadership at the time and they explained that, no, it's not a question of size of faction membership (Andoran would win, hands down) but how successful the factions were at accomplishing their goals. 90 successful missions out of 100 would be better than 120 successful missions out of 200.

If that criteria changed, I missed it.

Judging from the letters the faction heads sent out, they either decided to ignore that, or are saving doing something with that for later. I was really dissapointed by the bait and switch.

5/5

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread, but they did cover it in the podcast. The elimination of the Lantern Lodge and the Shadow Lodge as playable faction choices does not mean that they are being eliminated from the campaign. So, it is very likely that we will continue to see Amara Li and Torch and their organizations (depending on what happens in the scenarios, I suppose) in the future. We just won't see them an organization with the same scope as the player factions. In a lot of ways, fans of both faction should be excited by this, as it's very possible that we're going to see these factions in shine in story-based ways they haven't been able to before.

Grand Lodge 1/5

So whats the end game scenario for Lantern Lodge characters? I have a Samurai Magus that I need to get into it.


Helaman wrote:
So whats the end game scenario for Lantern Lodge characters? I have a Samurai Magus that I need to get into it.

Way of the Kirin

Grand Lodge 1/5

Great so we've only got June and July to play it before the faction ends... just groovy.

Sovereign Court

I really expected Cheliax to be on the chopping block. I think a nice war in the inner sea would liven things up a bit. I hope everyone realizes that the people of Goloran are being shaped and groomed to fight in the Blood war between Hell and The Abyss, with Golaran as the Battlefield.

Will the two defunct factions be replaced by something else?????

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Confidentially, Captain, and just between the two of us:

(1) The Blood War isn't part of the Golarion mythos.

(2) A hot war among the inner sea nations is extremely unlikely, because that's going to be one of those watershed events, affecting all the stories Paizo wants to tell. (Except for Mothune and Nithromas. They're in a hot war, and it will never end.)

(3) Yes. A grilled cheese sandwich and a pufferfish. At least, that's what I've been told.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Wish there was a more 'Viking appropriate' lodge.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

Shadow Lodge seemed to be an important faction. After playing "Eyes of the Ten" and seeing just what kind of scum the Ten were, I came out thinking the Shadow Lodge had a serious point.

I was all set to start a new SL character based off that experience.

Still, I wouldn't have minded on of the national factions having a serious setback, preferably Qadira and Osirion because they seem the least involved and the least relevant to the storyline.

But perhaps that is an argument for putting more stories in those countries rather than the Varisia I'm tired of.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Taldor could sort of fit the bill with the Ulfen Guard. Andoran might also, with thieir love for ships, freedom, and history of surviving in the wilds.

That being said, there isn't really a lot of cross-over between being a viking and factions. You could be a viking and be a member of basically any faction fairly reasonably. An Osirion that loves the thrill of raiding old dungeons and pileagng forgotten treasure, a Silver Crusader that has a love for battle and exploration, and chooses to focus it against evil, or a Sczarni that just wants to rape/murder/steal everything, but not have a chaotic evil alignment on their sheet. :)

2/5

DM Beckett wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Castilliano wrote:

.

Shadow Lodge wanted to keep the 10 from abusing Pathfinders. Done-ish.
Have you PLAYED Season 4?
Or 5, 3, 2, 1, or 0?

Sending adventurers on dangerous adventures=abuse?

Hmm...
(And arguably, seasons 0-early 3 are not very dangerous)

The 10 needs oversight, and Shadow Lodge has established that oversight.
Done.
I wrote 'done-ish' because, yea, it's still dangerous, but continued oversight is fairly dull, unless there's an ongoing conflict. Which there isn't. (Is there?)

I also think a lot of the season 4 mission statements have been clear about the role the PFs have in the overall scheme.
Read intro of Refuge of Time to understand one long arc, and then there's Fortress of the Nail for another. And Fabric of Reality brings a nice close to the many tapestry/anti-Aspis missions.
The PCs have been upgraded from erstwhile pawns (though admittedly they are still pieces) to savvy participants.

If you think the 10 shouldn't be sending PFs on dangerous missions, well...that's just silly.
I'd add that many of my first missions were from Torch, and I can't say he's looking after my PCs any better than any other faction head.

So maybe we need a Shadow Shadow Lodge? Or say...a faction representing light, like say...a LANTERN lodge! Oh, crap, I see what's happened here! The Lantern Lodge and the Shadow Lodge have overlapping areas at the same level and are cancelling each other out! Doh! Somebody really misunderstood the light/dark rules there!
/silly

Cheers, JMK

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

Taldor could sort of fit the bill with the Ulfen Guard. Andoran might also, with thieir love for ships, freedom, and history of surviving in the wilds.

That being said, there isn't really a lot of cross-over between being a viking and factions.

Indeed, it was more a partnership mentaility, there just didn't seem to be an organic fit for raiders, other than Sczarni.

Taldor seemed to have the Ulfen guards, but that almost felt like you were 'The Help' at best.

Maybe its time for the rise of the White Witches, or the Linnorm Kings meeting the Society to uncover the lost secrets of the Icy Reaches.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Hi, new on messageboards :)

I wonder the titles that we have earned from LL/SL are going to be remain or what?

And, about this 14th of August, can LL or SL PCs are able to play as their factions are still be LL of SL until the 14th of August, even they have played these so-called retierement scenarios for these respective factions, such as the Way of the Kirin..

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston

Castilliano: what oversight do you refer to?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Razzle the Second wrote:

Hi, new on messageboards :)

I wonder the titles that we have earned from LL/SL are going to be remain or what?

The word so far is yes. Members of those factions will get to keep all titiles, boons, and vanities related to their previous faction, (in addition to being able to purchase new faction material for the faction they switch to. This means that one the two factions are gone, no one else will be able to purchase the things they did, but you will get to keep them.

Razzle the Second wrote:
And, about this 14th of August, can LL or SL PCs are able to play as their factions are still be LL of SL until the 14th of August, even they have played these so-called retierement scenarios for these respective factions, such as the Way of the Kirin..

I'm not sure what your asking, but we are not really sure yet. The new PFS Guide will come out before then, which will give the details, but it seems like you can remain in your faction up until Aug 14th. There will probably be some method for a limited free rebuild (related to factions) before that point, and I would imagine that ven if you play through your factions retirement scenario, you may opt to not change factions until season 5 and Aug 14th, but I'm not sure.


Helaman wrote:
So whats the end game scenario for Lantern Lodge characters? I have a Samurai Magus that I need to get into it.

From what I understand, Tian Xia is going to be conspired by a hobgoblin army lead by a sorcerer lich. The order of the day is to stick it to the Lantern Lodge.

2/5

Netopalis wrote:
Castilliano: what oversight do you refer to?

No oversight players & PCs get to be a part of, but one written into the storyline by the developers.

(Though I would be interested in a scenario allowing for PCs to help directly with oversight.)

The Shadow Lodge has acted to curtail the Ten abusing Pathfinders.
The SL acted against the Ten in earlier seasons, and set up numerous missions on behalf of lost or endangered PFs. They gained followers and strength, and Torch became one of the major mission assigners, a major face for PFS. SL has established a presence that the Ten cannot ignore.
Unless one is supposing the Ten is acting out of line, then the Shadow Lodge's mission has been fulfilled.

I'm not sure what it means for the Ten to be in or out of line though, or what sparked the Shadow Lodge's creation.

This is just what I've picked up, and I'm relatively new to PFS.
IMO, this is all flavor. I don't see a significant difference in what types of tasks get assigned, nor in how we are treated by the bosses.
I would actually like to do some pathfinding myself, not just be part of political maneuvers. If there were an Explorers Lodge, the bulk of my PCs would join.

Cheers, JMK


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Castilliano wrote:
Unless one is supposing the Ten is acting out of line, then the Shadow Lodge's mission has been fulfilled.

"well, we proved our point by doing the job ourselves. Time to leave!"

I don't know if this logic works... but okay. I've never liked the idea of working for superiors when I don't know their motives

Grand Lodge 2/5

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
and I would imagine that ven if you play through your factions retirement scenario, you may opt to not change factions until season 5 and Aug 14th, but I'm not sure.

That is what I was wondering ^^ Thanks for the opinions..

2/5

MrSin wrote:
Castilliano wrote:
Unless one is supposing the Ten is acting out of line, then the Shadow Lodge's mission has been fulfilled.

"well, we proved our point by doing the job ourselves. Time to leave!"

I don't know if this logic works... but okay. I've never liked the idea of working for superiors when I don't know their motives

Leave? The Shadow Lodge is remaining as an NPC faction (AFAIK). They'll continue to look for abuses to rectify. But if there are no such abuses, SL is in a holding pattern which isn't very exciting for PCs.

I think with Season 5 heading toward a more Good-aligned PFS (as per Mark), having disputes with the Ten detracts from that. That doesn't mean there won't be some infiltration or corruption to excise, but that we don't need an active PC faction to handle it.
I'd be surprised if Torch didn't have any SL-style missions for us.

The motives of the Ten have been pretty above board in Season 4, not just telling you 'why', but some of the briefings even go into the whole process/timeline that led to 'why' and what they'll do with the data/items if you succeed. (Essentially summing up past scenarios and setting scene for follow up scenarios.)
If anything, it's been the faction heads acting shady (i.e. kill this guy who knows about my affair), not the Ten.

Gotta run, JMK

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Actually, due to both the corrupting influences of both the area and the spawn of where season 5 is suppossed to focus on heavily, it seems like an even greater need for a group to keep an eye out on their own "leadership", both and especially the 10, but also as you said the some of the Faction heads as well, which are being called out.

Not to mention that we all know for a fact that the PFS has more than a few items that the Abyss would just love to have returned to them, and the Shadow Lodge actually has a very real ongoing purpose within the game, both out of character for people that just don't like being yes-men for the PFS and a sort of police force against poor leadership from above.

Dark Archive 5/5

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I just really hope we get to take out Sheila Heidmarch in Rivalry's End. :P

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Ebonfeather wrote:
I just really hope we get to take out Sheila Heidmarch in Rivalry's End. :P

If by "take out" you mean a romantic dinner, followed by um, well whatever...Sure she's married, but "swinging" is not a 21st century concept :-)

2/5 *

Ebonfeather wrote:
I just really hope we get to take out Sheila Heidmarch in Rivalry's End. :P

What did she do? I must have missed that scenario.

4/5

Jason S wrote:
Ebonfeather wrote:
I just really hope we get to take out Sheila Heidmarch in Rivalry's End. :P

What did she do? I must have missed that scenario.

She's evil beyond the Aspis in Race for the Runecarved Key. She seems pretty reasonable most of the rest of the time, but the sheer amount of evil in RftRK has turned a lot of people against her.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Her reaction to a Pathfinder agent gone missing while undercover in "Cultists' Kiss" is appalling.

1/5 Contributor

I am, as ever, confused and disappointed by some reactions to Sheila Heidmarch as I measure them against the reactions to the in-game actions of pretty much any other VC or faction head. I don't know for sure what standard she's being held to, though, sadly, I have my suspicions.

Dark Archive 5/5

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Jason S wrote:
Ebonfeather wrote:
I just really hope we get to take out Sheila Heidmarch in Rivalry's End. :P
What did she do? I must have missed that scenario.

Well, in

Race for the Runecarved Key:
she demonstrated that she'll do whatever it takes to get what she wants, as long as she can just have Pathfinders do it for her.

In

Race for the Runcarved Key II:
she basically dumped a bunch of Pathfinders in a hell dimension and said "Good luck!"

In

Wrath's Shadow:
she couldn't even be bothered to meet us in person before sending us off on a total suicide mission.

In several cases she's basically said, "Please don't get killed, because that would make me look bad," and meant it.

And after reading her biography in

Shattered Star:
one is left wondering if Canayven Heidmarch is even Canayven Heidmarch anymore.

So I'm holding out hope that

in the season finale:
the risen Runelord somehow possesses her body and we get to kill it.

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