Increasing alchemical item DCs


Advice

Silver Crusade

I'm a huge fan of alchemical items, just the idea of someone using non magical things in creative ways always makes me smile. And now that I'm playing an alchemist, it's come to a bit of a head. But my problem is that as I'm leveling up, the DCs of my items aside from my own bombs aren't scaling. Being able to use a tanglefoot bag or thunderstone to great effect is getting harder and harder, and I was wondering if there was anyway of increasing the DC of these items, possibly by paying more or a higher craft check.

Silver Crusade

Anyone? Am I stuck with trying to do this in E6?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

That is a good question (for which I do not have a good answer). I am not sure that the game even allows "Masterwork" versions of these items.


This sounds familiar. Was there a way to do this in 3.5?

Silver Crusade

I just want to figure out a way, but it's the problem with most equipment. You get to a certain point, and you can't use it anymore, because it doesn't scale. I want Alchemist Fire that's as useful at lv 10 as it is at lv 1. Same with tanglefoot bags and other fun items rather than letting a major part of my character rust away.

Sovereign Court

I've never heard of a way to do it in Pathfinder. The thing is, your discoveries are based in part off alchemical items. Instead of the alchemist creating better tanglefoot bags, he focuses on his bombs, and then adds the effect of a tanglefoot bag to them. Or alchemical fire (immolation bomb). Or thunderstones (concussive bomb). Etc., etc.


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This would belong under houserules, but here's a shot at it.

The formula for single-use potions is spell level x caster level x cost. For potions, the cost is 50gp. I think we could house rule to use the same formula, but always insert the base cost of the alchemical item for "cost" (e.g. Alchemist Fire 20gp, Thunderstone 30gp, Tanglefoot Bag 50gp, etc.).

As for the rest, well, magic items based on spell DC only goes up with higher level spells, so to get the DC of of a wand of sleep (usually DC 11) to go up to DC 12, you need to make it at a higher level, (which in many cases means a Heighened metamagic spell but that's beside the point). It also means the caster level must go up by 2 for each higher level.

So level 1 requires caster level 1, level 2 requires caster level 3, level 3 requires caster level 5, etc. So if you want a Thunderstone to gain +1 DC, assuming the base was a level 1 item from a level 1 alchemist, you would need a level 2 item from a level 3 alchemist.

Old cost: 1 x 1 x 30 = 30 gp (15 to make it yourself)
New cost: 2 x 3 x 30 = 180 gp (90 to make it yourself)

If you wanted a DC 20 Thunderstone, that would require a level 5 Thunderstone made by a level 9 alchemist:

New cost: 5 x 9 x 30 = 1,350 gp (675 to make it yourself)

Pure houserule, of course, but it fits the formula system that is established elsewhere in the CRB. Without this houserule, I don't think it can be done by RAW, not that I know of.


I don't know of any official raw way, but I've also longed for there to be an official method to have the same alchemical and poison items available at high level, but with enhanced DCs. The effects that already exist are great and sufficient for the most part, but the fact that once you get to level 10 they stop being a real challenge is bothersome. If you play as an Assassin, it would be nice for your poisons to get stronger as you increase your alchemy score to craft them. It's lame that the first ability you get as an assassin is something thats almost useless once you've spent a few levels as an assassin.


Claxon wrote:
I don't know of any official raw way, but I've also longed for there to be an official method to have the same alchemical and poison items available at high level, but with enhanced DCs. The effects that already exist are great and sufficient for the most part, but the fact that once you get to level 10 they stop being a real challenge is bothersome. If you play as an Assassin, it would be nice for your poisons to get stronger as you increase your alchemy score to craft them. It's lame that the first ability you get as an assassin is something thats almost useless once you've spent a few levels as an assassin.

Well, there's a good set of rules at http://davidvs.net/games/pathfinder-poisons.shtml that are not in any way official but provide my group with a useful and fairly balanced set of rules for custom poisons. It wouldn't be that hard to extend them to cover other alchemical items. (In particular, if all you want to do is change the save DC, just do a bit of multiplication.)


What about adding half your ranks in craft: alchemy to the DC of any alchemical items you make?

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