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Chief executives of the nation's largest companies earned an average of
$12.3 million in total pay last year -- 354 times more than a typical
American worker, according to the AFL-CIO.
The average worker made $34,645 last year, according to the group that
represents over 50 trade unions.
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Hey, >this< one says "annual household income of $63,091 per year on average, before taxes"
It must include all the CEO's in the average.
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The ironic thing is without CEO's the average worker wouldn't have a job.
Maybe this is not ironic.
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The ironic thing is without CEO's the average worker wouldn't have a job.
Maybe this is not ironic.
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The problem isn't that that people believe that CEOs shouldn't be well compensated.
The problem is that the scale has gotten so completely out of whack.
History does have at least one example of this situation ... 1780's France. We know how that turned out ...
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The ironic thing is without CEO's the average worker wouldn't have a job.
Maybe this is not ironic.
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A CEO is important, particularly as an organizing and driving force within an organization. But the CEO wouldn't have a job without the workers AND customers. CEO's are facilitators who improve the flow between supply and demand, but they don't actually create either one.
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1780's France. We know how that turned out
IANDB but....Time to bust out the final blades. Viva la galt!!!!
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The ironic thing is without CEO's the average worker wouldn't have a job.
Maybe this is not ironic.
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The problem isn't that that people believe that CEOs shouldn't be well compensated.
The problem is that the scale has gotten so completely out of whack.
History does have at least one example of this situation ... 1780's France. We know how that turned out ...
Let them eat Big Macs?
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
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Chief executives of the nation's largest companies earned an average of
$12.3 million in total pay last year -- 354 times more than a typical
American worker, according to the AFL-CIO.The average worker made $34,645 last year, according to the group that
represents over 50 trade unions..
And they are running a company that emplyoys thousands or 10s of thousands of avg workers so they are in fact under paid. Stop the class warfare rhetoric! Without the "evil" corporations with their "overpaid" CEOs the avg worker doesn't have a job.
No one complains about athletes or movie stars and they contribute nothing to our society but entertainment not to mention our politicians that are actually a net negative. Without businesses there are no jobs as the unions at Hostess found out earlier this year. Now those workers make $0.
Grand Magus using class warfare rhetoric? Hmm, that's a new one.
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Thoroughly anti-union article, but it appears those Hostess workers are making more than $0.
By the way, gentlemen above, it's Vive le Galt!
So they were even more horribly underpaid back in 1982 when the average was only 42 times the typical worker? And that difference explains the horrible economy back then and our current blissful times?
This is what I was saying above about the scale being completely out of whack. At 42x the average worker, the CEO is well compensated (as he/she should be), but not so overpaid that it becomes harmful to the company or the economy at large.
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We need these wages to motivate us to crush your dreams and ruin your favorite rpgs.
MHA HA HA!!!!
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Chief executives of the nation's largest companies earned an average of
$12.3 million in total pay last year -- 354 times more than a typical
American worker, according to the AFL-CIO.The average worker made $34,645 last year, according to the group that
represents over 50 trade unions..
And they are running a company that emplyoys thousands or 10s of thousands of avg workers so they are in fact under paid. Stop the class warfare rhetoric! Without the "evil" corporations with their "overpaid" CEOs the avg worker doesn't have a job.
No one complains about athletes or movie stars and they contribute nothing to our society but entertainment not to mention our politicians that are actually a net negative. Without businesses there are no jobs as the unions at Hostess found out earlier this year. Now those workers make $0.
I complain about athletes and movie stars. Even just within the movie industry the top stars are paid too much IMO. The cult of celebrity focuses on a few individuals but the modern movie takes hundreds of, if not over a thousand, people to create. Particularly the no-name actors get paid virtually nothing for their appearances.
The athletes I'm a little less worried about, particularly because as an industry there is less of a difference between the highest paid and the lowest, compared to other industries. The NFL minimum is $375,000 for a rookie. While that's not millions, it's still a pretty good wage and there is a major difference between the talent on the team and the guy sweeping the stands.
Lastly, politicians aren't a net loss. The strength of our government and the rule of law within it, particularly compared to places like Russia, China and Somalia, are major reasons why we have a stronger economy and the freedoms that we have. In China you have to bribe your kids teacher to get good grades, corruption there makes our politicians looks like boy scouts.
And they are running a company that emplyoys thousands or 10s of thousands of avg workers so they are in fact under paid. Stop the class warfare rhetoric! Without the "evil" corporations with their "overpaid" CEOs the avg worker doesn't have a job.
No one complains about athletes or movie stars and they contribute nothing to our society but entertainment not to mention our politicians that are actually a net negative. Without businesses there are no jobs as the unions at Hostess found out earlier this year. Now those workers make $0.
3/10
Um...does anybody ever feel overpaid? Raise your hand if you feel that way. And if so why have you not agreed to take less.
Personaly yes there are over paid CEOs...as there are overpaid Union Workers...heck that teenager down at the Buger King who sit around and does nothing but texts is being Overpaid. Being overpaid has nothing to do with your wealth level...just really bad work ethic.
Lollygagging teenagers getting paid the minimum wage, lazy Teamsters only loading 180 pkgs/hour instead of 215, CEOs reaping multimillion bonuses from companies they wreck, 's all the same thing.
Lollygagging teenagers getting paid the minimum wage, lazy Teamsters only loading 180 pkgs/hour instead of 215, CEOs reaping multimillion bonuses from companies they wreck, 's all the same thing.
It is. It is the entitled BS people are believing in. Not saying the CEO is not somehow better because you find in all walks of life. Just that we should look at the entire issue...not just the top.
Poor work ethic and a sense of entitlement.
Also as a Teamster Union member(work for UPS) where do you get the lazy Teamster member only loading 185/hour as oppose to 215/hour? That has not been my experience.
From being a Teamster steward defending Teamster members at UPS in Massachusetts from douchebag managers talking about "underproductivity."
From being a Teamster steward defending Teamster members at UPS in Massachusetts from douchebag managers talking about "underproductivity."
Ok so...at what rate would you say that a Union member is being lazy? Or is that a impossibilty in your opinion?
It's not an impossibility, but it's also not my concern. It's management's.
To be honest, though, that douchebag manager was cycled to another part of the building years ago and, since then, there have been no complaints about laziness from any of my supervisors.
It's not an impossibility, but it's also not my concern. It's management's.
It is also my concern when I am sent into a truck with somebody that does half the work I am doing.
To be honest, though, that douchebag manager was cycled to another part of the building years ago and, since then, there have been no complaints about laziness from any of my supervisors.
Douchbag managers are a problem...I'll agree with that. I have had alot in my time.
It is also my concern when I am sent into a truck with somebody that does half the work I am doing.
Well, Brother Kretzer, that is annoying, but as a preloader I usually work alone. Lemme ask you something, have you made your 30 days?
Well, Brother Kretzer, that is annoying, but as a preloader I usually work alone. Lemme ask you something, have you made your 30 days?It is also my concern when I am sent into a truck with somebody that does half the work I am doing.
Past that...just over a year now.
Um...does anybody ever feel overpaid? Raise your hand if you feel that way. And if so why have you not agreed to take less.
Personaly yes there are over paid CEOs...as there are overpaid Union Workers...heck that teenager down at the Buger King who sit around and does nothing but texts is being Overpaid. Being overpaid has nothing to do with your wealth level...just really bad work ethic.
I have been in positions where I've felt overpaid, even though I was making less than my male peers.
I tried to have my annual raise amount added to the raise pool for my department so I could give it to my guys. "We can't do that."
I tried to have my bonus distributed to my department. "We can't do that."
I'm sure it was all BS. There's no reason they couldn't do that except that it would make everyone else look bad. Why do you think there's such a taboo on sharing salary information within companies?
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Well, Brother Kretzer, that is annoying, but as a preloader I usually work alone. Lemme ask you something, have you made your 30 days?It is also my concern when I am sent into a truck with somebody that does half the work I am doing.
Past that...just over a year now.
Well, Brother, here's the facts:
Some Solidarity Talk
There's a concept from revolutionary socialism that goes like this: it is the interests of the douchebag managers to get you to work as hard as possible for as little as possible. Conversely, it is in the interests of the Teamster brothers and sisters to work as little as possible for as much as possible. It's called the class struggle.
Now, there are a lot of places out there in the world, and there's UPS. And after 20 years in the menial labor/retail proletarian workforce, I have never worked for an employer where the class struggle was more real.
So, I'll ask you this: is the other guy really lazy, or he is just smarter than you? Now, I understand that there is really a chance that he is lazy--or older, or less physically fit, or whatever. But still, most people come into UPS with a work ethic from outside UPS and it doesn't get you anywhere. The reward for being a good, industrious worker at UPS is: more work. Congratulations! It takes some people a year to figure this out, it takes some people 5-6 years. It didn't take me any time at all, of course, because I was a revolutionary socialist before I started at the job, but still.
Now, two things: Believe it or not, I work hard when I'm at UPS. I perform my assigned task ably and timely and am relied upon by my (non)-douchebag (don't tell him I said that!) part-time supervisor to help out the other "lazy" workers. But, still, you've got to establish limits on how hard you will work and how hard you won't work. Remember, the more you milk it, the more you get paid. So, if I'm already helping somebody load their trucks, and then my (non)douchebag pt supe asks me to go help somebody else, I go to the bathroom. Or get a drink. Or, shiznit, I'll go have a cigarette.
Most importantly: who gives a f!+~?!? UPS pulled in 4 and a HALF BILLION DOLLARS IN PROFITS LAST YEAR!!! They break records, every f*#!ing quarter!!! With us all being lazy, and taking too many bathroom breaks, and smoking cigaretts on the clock, and they're still kicking Fed Ex's ass and the USPS and DHL--forget about it. And they can never ship our jobs to Mexico--there's a reason I decided in my 30s to start life over at UPS. I may be lazy, but I ain't no dummy.
On the off-chance that you're co-worker is really lazy. You can either rat him out and be a douchebag or--and this is much more fun--match his pace!! Is this guy a talker? See if he likes to play D&D or read sci-fi books. I'm always surprised at how many fellow nerds I find at work. Anyway, start chatting him up. When management notices that you're slacking when you're working with this dude, guess what? They'll have you work with someone else!!
F&~# UPS.
Um...does anybody ever feel overpaid? Raise your hand if you feel that way. And if so why have you not agreed to take less.
Personaly yes there are over paid CEOs...as there are overpaid Union Workers...heck that teenager down at the Buger King who sit around and does nothing but texts is being Overpaid. Being overpaid has nothing to do with your wealth level...just really bad work ethic.
I have been in positions where I've felt overpaid, even though I was making less than my male peers.
I tried to have my annual raise amount added to the raise pool for my department so I could give it to my guys. "We can't do that."
I tried to have my bonus distributed to my department. "We can't do that."
I'm sure it was all BS. There's no reason they couldn't do that except that it would make everyone else look bad. Why do you think there's such a taboo on sharing salary information within companies?
I'm not going to go looking for articles, but I remember back in 2008 people taking voluntary reductions in pay to keep coworkers employed was all the rage. It's also telling that in the only two actual examples that have been mentioned in this thread that I remember (Hostess and AA), employees sat on wage freezes for years. And it seems like everywhere you look unions are giving up concession after concession.
Not at UPS, though.
The more they make, the more we take.
Vive le Galt!
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Here is an example of one specific topic that separates highly compensated
CEOs from people like YOU: A CEO at a "big" company can read and
understand > this < paper.
Guys like you will open it, read the title, scoff, scroll down and gasp
at the presence of what appears to be math, and then (here’s the rub)
furiously come up with arguments and post links in your attempt to
demonstrate having this type of knowledge in your repertoire of business
tools is at best hyperbole; and absolutely a waste of time. (Not to mention –just plain evil-
because of the use of derivatives.) And other such things, so you can
keep your ignorance secure and never really have to learn anything new.
E.g. "Good business people learn by doing, and don't need no highfaluting book theories. Gah, nerds."
(the double negative was added as a social class indicator)
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Here is an example of one specific topic that separates highly compensated
CEOs from people like YOU: A CEO at a "big" company can read and
understand > this < paper.Guys like you will open it, read the title, scoff, scroll down and gasp
at the presence of what appears to be math, and then (here’s the rub)
furiously come up with arguments and post links in your attempt to
demonstrate having this type of knowledge in your repertoire of business
tools is at best hyperbole; and absolutely a waste of time. (Not to mention –just plain evil-
because of the use of derivatives.) And other such things, so you can
keep your ignorance secure and never really have to learn anything new.
Omigod! they can read math! No wonder they get paid hundreds of times what I do.
Wait. I can read math. Probably types of math they can't. So can the engineers at my firm. And the professors that wrote the paper in the first place. None of them are being paid like CEOs.
And just for the obligatory dig at derivatives, A lot of that stuff, based on all sorts of highfaluting arguments, blew the whole economy to hell a couple of years ago. There were plenty of technical papers written saying it was all perfectly safe and all the risks were hedged so nothing could go wrong.
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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL L !!!
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From a speech by some commie dude reprinted in the pamphlet Karl Marx: Capitalist Anarchy and the Immiseration of the Working Class:
"I've been reading this book, Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and Unknowns in the Dazzling World of Derivatives (2006), by a veteran trader, Styajit Das. It's very entertaining, really funny. At one point Das was working for an investment bank that was seeking to induce a Japanese pension fund manager to become its client:
'The bank had courted him ceaselessly for years, to no avail. It turned out the fund manager had a weakness--a cliched partiality for very tall, long-legged, blue-eyed, blonde women. The bank assumed the woman need not be Japanese.
'A global search was undertaken and the human resources (HR) department performed admirably. The bank found a stereotypical Scandinavian woman to cover the fund manager. The woman--please don't laugh--was called [Madame Sissyl]. She was bright, pleasant and efficient, but there was one problem--she had no knowledge of derivatives. She had a background in cosmetics. The bank hired her anyway, figuring, correctly it turned out, that the fund manager wasn't that interested in derivatives.'"
But, yeah, I can't read that book, but down with FIRE!
It's a very good pamphlet, comrades. It reprints a wonderful series of articles from The Galtic Worker called "Wall Street and the War Against Labor" that they originally put out after the 1997 UPS Strike (pay attention, Brother Kretzer).
Send me $2 and I'll get you a copy.
Vive le Galt!
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Here is an example of one specific topic that separates highly compensated
CEOs from people like YOU: A CEO at a "big" company can read and
understand > this < paper.Guys like you will open it, read the title, scoff, scroll down and gasp
at the presence of what appears to be math, and then (here’s the rub)
furiously come up with arguments and post links in your attempt to
demonstrate having this type of knowledge in your repertoire of business
tools is at best hyperbole; and absolutely a waste of time. (Not to mention –just plain evil-
because of the use of derivatives.) And other such things, so you can
keep your ignorance secure and never really have to learn anything new.E.g. "Good business people learn by doing, and don't need no highfaluting book theories. Gah, nerds."
(the double negative was added as a social class indicator)
See, what you're doing here is implying that other people reading and posting on this thread are anti-CEO.
Nobody seems to have really made such a statement (well, there's always the comrade...), instead they have opined that certain wage differentials are unseemly.
Now, it just so happens that I have an uncle who can read and understand documents like that. In fact, he wrote documents like that (now semi-retired). He has made it pretty clear to me that understanding and applying such economic theories is not an especially mighty feat. In fact, he has taught many people to understand documents like that.
To be honest, it reminds me of the archaeological journals I read at university. Should I earn 354 times the salary of the average worker simply because I can read journals which assume prior knowledge.
Most journals do this, part of the point of journals is that they're specialist publications which don't bother to explain themselves to the uninitiated.
So, here are some direct questions for you:
Do you believe that the wages of most CEOs accurately reflect their worth?
How would you classify/describe that worth?
Yeah. That's about what I expected.
You and me both. As usual, the bluster quickly collapses in the face of facts. Sadly, that never seems to make any difference.
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Chief executives of the nation's largest companies earned an average of $12.3 million in total pay last year
This isn't the problem.
The average worker made $34,645 last year
THIS is.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
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Here is an example of one specific topic that separates highly compensated
CEOs from people like YOU: A CEO at a "big" company can read and
understand > this < paper.Guys like you will open it, read the title, scoff, scroll down and gasp
at the presence of what appears to be math, and then (here’s the rub)
furiously come up with arguments and post links in your attempt to
demonstrate having this type of knowledge in your repertoire of business
tools is at best hyperbole; and absolutely a waste of time. (Not to mention –just plain evil-
because of the use of derivatives.) And other such things, so you can
keep your ignorance secure and never really have to learn anything new.E.g. "Good business people learn by doing, and don't need no highfaluting book theories. Gah, nerds."
(the double negative was added as a social class indicator).
Did you seriously just link a paper that was integral to the investment strategies that led up to the financial crisis of 2008?
Yeah. That's about what I expected.You and me both. As usual, the bluster quickly collapses in the face of facts. Sadly, that never seems to make any difference.
Did you seriously just link a paper that was integral to the investment strategies that led up to the financial crisis of 2008?
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Well, I have won this thread quite handily too.
Ok, I'm off again. See you around Christmas time.
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> this <
What the hell is a non-linear derivative? That sounds like wizard's speak.