Menhir Savant's Place Magic ability and stacking


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Here's the ability:

Place Magic (Su):

At 2nd level, a menhir savant learns to identify and tap into ley lines in different types of terrain. As a free action, she can tap into the magic of a nearby ley line and increase her caster level by +1 for 1 round. She can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom bonus.

This ability replaces woodland stride and trackless step.


Now then, I already looked on the boards using the search function to see if this has been answered already.

The bonus to caster level is untyped. The action required is a free action. There's is no "once per round" limitation.

Suppose I have a druid at level 2 with the Fire Domain. What is stopping me from using 3 free actions on my turn to cast a 5d4 burning hands spell? Or at level 5 from spending 5 free actions to cast a 10d6 fireball? Is the only limit the 6 (3+wisMod) per day?

Please note I'm not asking how you would houserule this to work in your home game. If I was asking that, I'd put it in the Advice forum.


Those are hardly the best uses of Place Magic... Try it on long duration buffs. :)

I think by RAW, it does stack with itself. I don't think by RAW the "same source" restriction on spells applies here since it is neither a spell nor spell-like.

I also think it's poorly written and should probably not stack with itself, and played it as such when I had my last Menhir Savant. But I know, you don't want houserules...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yes, buffs would tend to be a better choice, but that level 2 druid can only get one burning hands per day (seeing as it's his domain spell and he only gets one slot for it), and so he'd better make it count. Then he uses the other 4 Place Magics on buffs or whatnot.


Bonuses from the same source don't stack. Place magic is the same source as itself. So it doesn't stack.

Sovereign Court

tonyz wrote:

Bonuses from the same source don't stack. Place magic is the same source as itself. So it doesn't stack.

You're right, and here is a quote

Quote:

Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.[/url]


Hmm, I thought the same source rule was only in the magic section for spells. I'm happy to be wrong.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Thanks! I felt I was missing something.

Sovereign Court

For a short moment I was thinking that power was much bigger than I thought, and kicking myself for not taking menhir savant.


You should be kicking yourself. :p

Menhir Savant is much more than +1 CL a few times a day.

It's also detecting most of the things in the bestiary you can't just see normally at will. And free teleporting the party across the globe repeatedly every day. And later on, getting to go Ethereal for rounds/level/day.

Sovereign Court

Yeah, true. I guess I was just a little bit too dead-set on woodland stride. Oh well, it would be a bit weird flavor, what with the barbarian level and all. It's a bit of a funky druid build, but I've gotten lucky with rolling stats so it works quite well.


I was going to start a new topic but this is pretty relevant to the discussion. I'll try Necromancy here first. ^_^

Would Place Magic stack with the Dwarven racial trait Strength of the land?

Strength of the Land:
You are able to tap into the
living energy of the world to shatter lesser magic. You
gain a +1 trait bonus on caster level checks while
touching the ground or unworked stone. This
includes dispel checks and checks to overcome
spell resistance.

RAW I think its a go, right? There is no type on PM and SotL provides the +1 ECL as a trait bonus. This would enable a level 1 Dwarven Menhir Savant to have ECL 3 a decent amount of times a day so long as you were on the ground or touching natural stone.

Could a Wild shaped as bird or indoor druid just pick up a rock in talon/offhand and still benefit from SotL? What about just a simple rock on a string necklace? RAW seems to imply yes but RAI it sounds cheesy.

A situational +2ECL potentially 7+times a day nets action economy out of SNA at level 1 under the right circumstances. Sounds like decent mojo to me.

I feel like I may have answered my own main question in the writing of this but have raised another. So I'd still like to put it to debate! Is the slightly mediocre seeming trait worth it to get a solid +2 ECL some of the time?


The Aggro wrote:


Is the slightly mediocre seeming trait worth it to get a solid +2 ECL some of the time?

Erp. Easymode edit. I forgot place magic only begins at Savant -2- so you cannot in fact maintain efficient SNAs at level one. however level 2 ECL4 remains viable? maybe? Dang! Probably missing something but I'm still going to try it out.

Sovereign Court

Also, note that strength of the land doesn't increase your caster level. It increases your caster level CHECKS! So it helps you penetrate spell resistance, dispel magic, and a few other things, but won't raise your spell duration or damage dice (menhir savant will, as will orange ioun stones, which actually raise caster level).

I had a dwarf earth-themed druid with it, and realized about halfway through the campaign that I had been playing the trait wrong.


GralphidB wrote:

Also, note that strength of the land doesn't increase your caster level. It increases your caster level CHECKS! So it helps you penetrate spell resistance, dispel magic, and a few other things, but won't raise your spell duration or damage dice (menhir savant will, as will orange ioun stones, which actually raise caster level).

I had a dwarf earth-themed druid with it, and realized about halfway through the campaign that I had been playing the trait wrong.

Dang! After rereading it you are totally right. Thanks for pointing that out. I thought it sounded a little too good as I first read it. Would have been sweet though!

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