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Edit: And, in any case, there was a pretty strong body of responders saying "we play up for the challenge, not for the reward" when we were asked why we played up; cutting the rewards down isn't going to change things for them.
What most people have been saying is that they play up for the greater challenge. So, if this is true, then they shouldn't care if the rewards don't change, right?
No one said that.
You must not play up very much, because if you did you’d realize the enormous risk involved. Especially now in deadly season 4. Extra gold is definitely needed for consumables and raise dead (which is inevitable).
If PFS is changing the rewards for playing up, I think this is going to be a very strong negative change. The reason: There’s no way someone will play up with a low level PC if the rewards are identical. This will prevent a lot of tables from happening. The theorycrafters will like the change initially and then realize how horrible it is in practice.
We have some awesome opportunities to see further interaction between Cheliax and the Crusade, and really - the Crusade is stiffly lawful and blind to anything that they don't consider "good"... why are they still dealing with the Society?
Silver Crusade is still dealing with society in order to do good in Golarion. Missions can be done as good or as “bad” as you want to do them. It’s really up to the individual. Pathfinder Society has a lot of power, it makes sense to have influence over this power.
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If it's only two going? I vote for Sczarni, and Sczarni. A faction whose stated objective is "use the Society for personal gain" has no place in a group game except as an enemy.
The game you describe sounds incredibly dull to me.
This campaign is not meant to be hero-centric. Pathfinders are not, on the whole, heroes. They're tomb raiders. Grave robbers. Murder hobos. Scum.
If we take out all the conflict and make everything PG, we're taking out the fun.
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I'd really hate to see Cheliax go. I think them and Taldor probably have more personality than other factions, which is why I like them so much. Silver Crusade serves a necessary purpose. Those are the three I'll get upset about if they go. There are others I'd have to think about how to treat my PCs if they have to change factions, but those are the three factions that really matter to me.
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I think 9 factions should be removed, personally, or at least reduced in importance so the game again becomes a TEAM game, instead of a bunch of individuals after different things, who might accidentally accomplish the Society's assignment along the way. Factions should be unlinked from equipment access at the very least, so you aren't penalized by refusing to go and pick up a special set of panties for someone who isn't your employer, instead of doing your job.
We agree, I wish PFS didn't have factions at all (which is why in my home game everyone is Shadow Lodge.). Unfortunately there's no way they're going to wipe out factions, it's what makes PFS "unique".
I do wish they would unlink fame from purchases though and just use PP as extra "loot" (which is enough reason to gain them imo). That way, they can actually make faction missions difficult without making players unhappy.
I'd mostly just be bothered if Silver Crusade went. I'm actually fine with Cheliax too. I like having lots of options so long as there aren't so many they start to hurt each other, and I happen to like Cheliax for getting interesting missions.
I have had issues in the past with rivalries so I don't think we really need that. Some players take it a little further than others. We're all friends here after all.
Haters gonna hate, Cheliax isn't going anywhere. And just to rub it in, I'm going to create and roleplay the hell out of a super creepy, BDSM Paladin. :P
Well then... This will definitely be one of the more interesting things I see today. I could totally see this happening now!
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Haters gonna hate, Cheliax isn't going anywhere. And just to rub it in, I'm going to create and roleplay the hell out of a super creepy, BDSM Paladin. :P
Heh, shame you're in California, I'm looking at my next Inquisitor being a Heritic of Sheylin, who studies the art of pain to better understand (and redeem) Kuthites :-)
I smell Buddy comedy!
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Could the wealth change be something with how the chronicle loot is handled? Like, maybe you actually acquire the items themselves and decide whether to keep or sell each item (instead of automatically getting gold)? Or maybe they're taking the popular suggestion of offering a tiny discount on items purchased from a chronicle sheet?
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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If we take out all the conflict and make everything PG, we're taking out the fun.
PFS pretty much has to be PG - it's played at conventions, in game stores, and in a lot of places where young people are present (and even playing). I've had players as young as seven at the table with me.
And while practically all of the teens and pre-teens probably know at least as much as any scenario will even hint at about sex, they still tend to get uncomfortable when the topic comes up when people as old as their parents (or, in my case, grandparents) are present.
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1) Lantern Lodge (lack of flavor. Wasn’t even interesting in Tian Xia and if they can’t do it there…)
2) Sczarni (lack of players)
They have potential; they’re just not realizing it. If they can’t be made more interesting, kick them as well:
1) Qadira (just not interesting or riskée/cut throat enough)
2) Taldor (where’s the intrigue and s@#! disturbing? We saw some in season 0, that’s about it. *Yawn*)
3) Shadow Lodge (I wish they’d take a different and more interesting narrative angle. I want them to go after and investigate the Decemvirate directly. Protecting the low ranking Pathfinders should just be a ploy)
1) Cheliax (toned down compared to prior seasons, but still the best. Usually the best PCs too)
2) Grand Lodge (it’s sometimes hard (and interesting) to go above and beyond)
3) Sczarni (a little bit of nastiness can be interesting)
4) Silver Crusade (being good can make the mission harder, but that’s interesting imo)
But the truth is that there isn’t time for faction missions during a scenario if there are 6 different factions at the table. They can’t be complex. Plus, it can be really boring watching people do faction missions, especially if they are exclusionary.
Friends can certainly roleplay companions with opposed views.I have had issues in the past with rivalries so I don't think we really need that. Some players take it a little further than others. We're all friends here after all.
Oh I understand that. I've seen it often and I'm okay with playful teasing or some banter now and then. Sometimes its become a problem with a player takes a step too far or plays up the rivalry however, even if I'm completely unwilling to be antagonistic. Hopefully its an isolated problem if any.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Sex is more of an issue than killing, robbing or torture?
In the US? Have you been here?
"I'm absolutely okay with Timmy decapitating everything in sight and/or blasting away with myriad guns/rockets/whatever. But God help you, Mr. video game designer, if he sees even a hint of nipple."
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A little under three hours to go until we can stop debating which factions should go and start lamenting which factions did go.
The more I think about it, if the intent was partially to allow in game actions/results to affect the campaign, then I'm fine with all of the factions being in jeopardy, and no faction should receive an automatic pass. If it's purely a numbers game, whether that's total prestige gained or a percentage of success or some combination of the two, if a faction comes up short, a faction comes up short. Whichever are cut, they are bound to be someone's favorite, and someone is bound to be upset to see them go. Maybe if a popular faction is cut it'll serve as a wakeup call that actions do matter.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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If it's only two going? I vote for Sczarni, and Sczarni. A faction whose stated objective is "use the Society for personal gain" has no place in a group game except as an enemy.
Ahhh, I was wondering why there wasn't a Lamplighter post in the Sczarni forum. Sure the Sczarni are going to attract some people who skew evilish... but anyone who is interested should read the Taltos series by Steven Brust for some background on why a rogue might want to be part of a large, wealthy, powerful, and generally good/neutral adventuring group and how that might eventually change their viewpoint.
Also, if we're going to get rid of the evil in PFS (which I definitely disagree with), we should start with:
I hope the results go more towards 'more interesting' play, and not just 'less evil/odd.' For me, more interesting wins every time.
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Could the wealth change be something with how the chronicle loot is handled? Like, maybe you actually acquire the items themselves and decide whether to keep or sell each item (instead of automatically getting gold)? Or maybe they're taking the popular suggestion of offering a tiny discount on items purchased from a chronicle sheet?
Or making the wealth less advantageous to play up?
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Haters gonna hate, Cheliax isn't going anywhere. And just to rub it in, I'm going to create and roleplay the hell out of a super creepy, BDSM Paladin. :PHeh, shame you're in California, I'm looking at my next Inquisitor being a Heritic of Sheylin, who studies the art of pain to better understand (and redeem) Kuthites :-)
I smell Buddy comedy!
That's not Buddy comedy you smell...
:P there's always cons friend.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Could the wealth change be something with how the chronicle loot is handled? Like, maybe you actually acquire the items themselves and decide whether to keep or sell each item (instead of automatically getting gold)? Or maybe they're taking the popular suggestion of offering a tiny discount on items purchased from a chronicle sheet?Or making the wealth less advantageous to play up?
People have already guessed that. Gotta be different! ;)
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Waitasecond...
Does that mean they're all going away?
-Matt
One could only hope.
Seriously...if the statement made before about the lack of any real oomph behind the abandoned "faction war" is any indication, to me it means that perhaps the whole faction concept should just go out the window altogether.
Either that or drop it down to three factions and re-introduce the war, with real consequences.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I have not yet had that pleasure.Sex is more of an issue than killing, robbing or torture?In the US? Have you been here?
"I'm absolutely okay with Timmy decapitating everything in sight and/or blasting away with myriad guns/rockets/whatever. But God help you, Mr. video game designer, if he sees even a hint of nipple."
Our current society is defined by our past. Protestant religious values and revolutionary zeal are two of the most distinct pieces of American history, displayed by our current society's prudishness and love of guns. There are, of course, plenty of examples of differing opinions and values, but the public routinely supports laws that demonize sex and other "deviant" lifestyles, while vociferously denouncing any law that inhibits peoples' right to weaponize and "defend" themselves.
Still worth the visit, though. Especially for the gaming conventions.
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Fame will become disconnected from purchase limits, they will isntead be limited by level, among other things this allows missions to become more difficult/interesting without screwing people of their ability to purchase gear.
Yes, yes, and yes! You still want to do your mission, but you don't get completely screwed by having a low-skill character or a character that's played a lot of modules.
Great idea! I love it!
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Maybe if a popular faction is cut it'll serve as a wakeup call that actions do matter.So that'll teach us to, what, take our gaming passtime more seriously?
Not sure that makes any kind of sense...
More just as a signal that going forward the success/fail results will shape the game world, potentially in big ways. That's already been hinted at with the addition of checkboxes for different result conditions when reporting.
I'm not saying they should cut a popular faction. I'm just saying if it's really based on results, they could cut a popular faction, and it could signal similarly big changes in the future based on the collective outcome of scenarios, which is, at least, interesting to think about.
Personally, I'd probably want to see the Grand Lodge and the Lantern Lodge go, for the same reasons that have been listed.
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PFS pretty much has to be PG - it's played at conventions, in game stores, and in a lot of places where young people are present (and even playing). I've had players as young as seven at the table with me.
This is demonstrably untrue. PFS is not pretty much PG. As evidenced by The Grand High Strumpet Herself. If you choose to censor the parts of it that aren't PG when you run, that's your business. But I don't think we should take them out entirely.
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PFS pretty much has to be PG - it's played at conventions, in game stores, and in a lot of places where young people are present (and even playing). I've had players as young as seven at the table with me.This is demonstrably untrue. PFS is not pretty much PG. As evidenced by The Grand High Strumpet Herself. If you choose to censor the parts of it that aren't PG when you run, that's your business. But I don't think we should take them out entirely.
This is kind of derailing the thread but I think if they are old enough to pretend kill someone then they are old enough to hear about pretend sex or sexual innuendo's that are/are not sometimes hinted at.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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This is kind of derailing the thread but I think if they are old enough to pretend kill someone then they are old enough to hear about pretend sex or sexual innuendo's that are/are not sometimes hinted at.PFS pretty much has to be PG - it's played at conventions, in game stores, and in a lot of places where young people are present (and even playing). I've had players as young as seven at the table with me.This is demonstrably untrue. PFS is not pretty much PG. As evidenced by The Grand High Strumpet Herself. If you choose to censor the parts of it that aren't PG when you run, that's your business. But I don't think we should take them out entirely.
Heh. Once, again, have you been to the US?
As a store owner and PFS coordinator I have been questioned by, and given strict instructions by many a parent. Overwhelmingly, violence gets the okay; sex is to be assiduously avoided.
I don't disagree with you, but I think you would be very surprised to find out how disagreeable parents are with that stance.
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from george RR martin.
“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a p***s entering a v****a, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, p*****s entering v*****s have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.”
Here's the link, I think.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Here's the link, I think.
Sweet, thanks! Guess it's time to go pee and otherwise make sure I don't need to move for a while.
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heh how about this.
Merging Cheliax and Andoran. They're both former Taldor colonies.
Merge Grand and Shadow Lodge. Torch has become The Man. ;-)
All tongue in cheek, but I don't want to see the Bravo Foxtrots absorb the Crusade.
Probably the most amazing post I've ever seen. :)
Blue Falcons!!!
My understanding is that it is the Lantern Lodge, (people just don't like it or care about it at all) and either Osirion or Cheliax. More likely Cheliax, but the two are close. Cheliax really only had the "I'm a bad-boy, spank me" thing going for it, but after the other five factions came out, well they really where not the only anti-hero on the block, and really not that interesting in the end. Hell Knights, yes. Cheliax, no. Osirion, on the other hand, to my understanding has always been the least popular of the original 5, but unlike Cheliax, hasn't really had any competition sweep the under the rug. So whle they are still not that popular, they haven't become obsolete.
That being said, with a few of the recent "save Cheliax" scenarios, I wouldn't be surprzed if Osirion gets dropped and Cheliax just gets another face.
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Last second rampant speculation! Last second rampant speculation!
Cheliax and Osirion are removed! Wealth is divorced from Fame and tied to level! Factions are joined in the same manner as buying a vanity, by spending PP instead of at character creation! Hasbro buys Paizo and the campaign is becoming Living Forgotten Pwthfinder Society Realms by Paizo, a Hasbro subsidiary! Alien spaghetti monsters will become the new campaign administrators! The cucumbers see the future! Delicious sugar beets!
Two of those predictions are ones I think might actually be right. Five points to whoever guesses which ones. ;)
