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But my real prediction is that all Season Zero scenarios will be requested to be removed from future play. There's no good in continuing adventures set 5 years ago, with different factions and different adversaries. The challenge ratings are ridiculous and the overall feel, to me, anyways, just isn't the same as the newer ones.
I have heard whispers of this being a likely possibility. I don't know if they'll wait till the end of summer when season 5 rolls out or start with this announcement. We'll find out today!
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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But my real prediction is that all Season Zero scenarios will be requested to be removed from future play. There's no good in continuing adventures set 5 years ago, with different factions and different adversaries. The challenge ratings are ridiculous and the overall feel, to me, anyways, just isn't the same as the newer ones.I have heard whispers of this being a likely possibility. I don't know if they'll wait till the end of summer when season 5 rolls out or start with this announcement. We'll find out today!
I hope they don't retire Season 0 entirely - without Season 0, Among the Dead makes no sense, and several decent scenarios would be lost. Season 0 gives a nice option for GMs who want to run a second, short session with low risk to players after a really rough scenario.
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Does anyone think that no faction should be removed?
Right here. Unless there's going to be a substantial uptick in the quality of faction missions, I don't see any reason that we should cut two random and completely arbitrary skill checks from each session when there will still be eight remaining.
But my real prediction is that all Season Zero scenarios will be requested to be removed from future play. There's no good in continuing adventures set 5 years ago, with different factions and different adversaries. The challenge ratings are ridiculous and the overall feel, to me, anyways, just isn't the same as the newer ones.
God, I hope not. The only people hurt by that will be new players, and that's not good. Also, Perils of the Pirate Pact is a must for any low-level wizard. You know what I'm talking about.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'd not like to see Season 0 go, unless it 'goes' by being replaced by upgraded versions. Mists of Mwangi comes readily to mind as 'too good to miss'.
Re: Lantern Lodge my problem with lantern lodge is the 'faction' it represents is too big. If it represented loyalists who want to see the Lung empire restored, that would be one thing, but now we have a 'lodge' that represents how many different nations? It needs a name change, a mission change, or axed.
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Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
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Re: Lantern Lodge my problem with lantern lodge is the 'faction' it represents is too big. If it represented loyalists who want to see the Lung empire restored, that would be one thing, but now we have a 'lodge' that represents how many different nations? It needs a name change, a mission change, or axed.
That might be a bit of an overall Tian Xia problem. Compared to the main regions, Tian Xia is always Tian Xia and seldomly a particular region or nation. Starting with character languages.
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I think instead of guessing who is going, we narrow down who is NOT going.
Andoran = 'nuff said.
Grand Lodge = you almost have to have the "not-a-faction faction" for those who don't want to mess around with the power struggle. There was a huge demand for this faction, so it's safe.
Silver Crusade = safe. There is no way they are moving in season 5 to a Worldwound crusade storyline and leaving a faction full of paladins and LG clerics named "CRUSADE" out.
Qadira = probably safe. I've seen an absolute ton of Qadirans, and many are also excellent roleplayers to boot.
Shadow Lodge = probably safe. I'll admit, my personal knowledge of how the factions are doing is limited, but this one seems popular enough and successful enough to make the cut.
That's half of them right out of the conversation.
Osirion = iffy. Early seasons had a bit of egyptian-tomb crawl missions, they just seem to have moved away from it flavor-wise. Ripe for a shake up in leadership.
Cheliax = iffy. Like I've said, almost every single one of these guys I've met has been an excellent roleplayer. While I understand Mike's desire to make PFS more kid-friendly, the folks who want to play EEEEEE-VILE have to have a home, and this is it. Prediction: they get the "faction leader change probabtion" treatment. Which leads me to...
Taldor = iffy. They've already gotten the faction head swap. I'd hate to see them go, as they were the "court intrigue" faction, and the only place where nobility even had any lip-service. I'd hate to see my Ulfen Guard bard-barian have to swap factions, especially after I painted a Taldan tabard on his mini!
That leaves us with two;
Lantern Lodge = Meh. It was a home for ninjas and samurai when they were first introduced, and had a whole season themed around them. To me they smack of product-placement, and their flavor of the month is past. Boring as white rice (IMO), they have next to nothing to offer in the new season. Unless they are safe because there needs to be a permenant home for asian-themed characters, this one is at the top of my list.
Sczarni = Meh again. Once the campaign shifts away from Varisia (and not into Ustalav), why have what is really a regional, ethnocentric crime family gain continent-wide influence? Not sure how popular this one is, but it is a niche within a niche, and I just don't see it making the cut.
All of course, IMHO.
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Please don't retire Season Zero... there are some really fun ones in there that I would be sad to see unavailable for future players.
My bets on factions getting eliminated: Osirion and Shadow Lodge (with the later basically joining into the Grand Lodge now that the Shadow conflict is effectively over).
I also foresee Zarta being replaced (which I am sad about as one of my characters is a 5th cousin to her as part of his back-story)... although I wouldn't be surprised to see her again as a recurring NPC or even (gasp!) villian in Season Five.
Man that clock is movin' slow today... can't wait to find out what is up!
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Please don't retire Season Zero... there are some really fun ones in there that I would be sad to see unavailable for future players.
My bets on factions getting eliminated: Osirion and Shadow Lodge (with the later basically joining into the Grand Lodge now that the Shadow conflict is effectively over).
I also foresee Zarta being replaced (which I am sad about as one of my characters is a 5th cousin to her as part of his back-story)... although I wouldn't be surprised to see her again as a recurring NPC or even (gasp!) villian in Season Five.
Man that clock is movin' slow today... can't wait to find out what is up!
The Shadow Lodge conflict is far from over, as one Season 4 scenario shows. Furthermore, Grandmaster Torch is still working to ensure the safety and security of Pathfinders, while the Society continues to randomly send new agents through bizarre tapestries into alternate dimensions to explore suicidal cults, to infiltrate embassies of some of the most powerful nations in Golarion and to...
So, there's that.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Amusingly, the Shadow Lodge/Grand Lodge conflict fills, I feel, a real need. Such disputes have happened in real life.
Now that said, one of the things I remember from reading Mother Jones' biography was that the two enemies of the worker were the corporation and their own leadership. Meaning that if the later got too complacent, they became a threat to the employee. (My dad experienced this first hand) If Paizo continues to advance the faction war, a 'grey council' style revolt against the Shadow Lodge, for many of the same reasons the Shadow Lodge claims to support against the Grand Lodge, would make sense.
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How do you (positively) sum up Taldor in one sentence?
"Your once and future rulers..."
"Decadence, Intrigue, Paperwork"*
"With Great Beards Comes Great Power"
"My Dinner with Aroden"
"Home of Oppara Winfrey"
* = Changed from "Decadence, Intrigue, Bureaucracy" at the request of the ArchLaughwright of the High Council of Comedic Arts as "paperwork" was deemed, in the special PFS PUNCHLINE subcommittee of COMEDIC SCRIBES committee, a punchier word with the plosive and hard K sounds as well as having a smaller syllable count.
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Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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Amusingly, the Shadow Lodge/Grand Lodge conflict fills, I feel, a real need. Such disputes have happened in real life.
Now that said, one of the things I remember from reading Mother Jones' biography was that the two enemies of the worker were the corporation and their own leadership. Meaning that if the later got too complacent, they became a threat to the employee. (My dad experienced this first hand) If Paizo continues to advance the faction war, a 'grey council' style revolt against the Shadow Lodge, for many of the same reasons the Shadow Lodge claims to support against the Grand Lodge, would make sense.
I smell a scenario there...the Matewan Incident?
The Matewan being a ship, of course, that is wholly unconnected to labor history. :P
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Silver Crusade = safe. There is no way they are moving in season 5 to a Worldwound crusade storyline and leaving a faction full of paladins and LG clerics named "CRUSADE" out.
Oh yeah! I didn't think of that. Okay, so they're safe. Which means your predictions line up with mine: Lantern Lodge and Sczarni.
Loot prediction: You don't get extra loot for playing up, you get loot for the tier you are.There are bigger risks, but not bigger rewards?
Agreed. If that's the resolution, it's going to present problems.
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If that's the resolution, it's going to present problems.
On the other hand, it would help to take away the incentive to build a super-powered PC which strips the fun of his tablemates away.
And tables could play up solely for a challenge, not for any additional rewards. Tables could play the Tier that's most appropriate for them, instead of what's best for their gold purses.
-Matt
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One of the problems with all these predictions is that they're based on people's personal preferences. They told us 6 months ago that if they eliminated factions, it would be based on which are least popular/successful (I really hope it's by numbers, not % completion of faction missions), based on participation in season 4 scenarios only.
Add me to the list that doesn't want to see season 0 scenarios retired. They're sometimes a pain to prep for those of us who never played 3.5, so don't know the quirks in the rules regarding that, but there are some fun adventures in there.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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There are bigger risks, but not bigger rewards?Loot prediction: You don't get extra loot for playing up, you get loot for the tier you are.
Just cut the gold down to the appropriate amount, but leave the chronicle access, boons, etc. the same.
That's pretty pointless with most old chronicles - by the time you can afford the named items you've usually got more than enough fame to be able to buy them anyway, and really worthwhile boons are few and far between. But campaign management have stated their intent is to make the chronicle awards more interesting, so this could be enough of a reward.
Edit: And, in any case, there was a pretty strong body of responders saying "we play up for the challenge, not for the reward" when we were asked why we played up; cutting the rewards down isn't going to change things for them.
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A pretty disasterous way of deciding things though. I mean, is there anyone who would rather lose Cheliax than the Grand Lodge?
*raises hand*
I am not really a huge fan of the content that Cheliax throws into the game, whereas I like the fact that there is a faction that is very much for the Ten. I find it really awkward to roleplay as the Paracountess and kinda brush over it when I'm GMing.
I'm not saying that PFS should be completely sanitary, just that I sometimes find that Cheliax roleplays a little too much which turns me off of the game, and I think that the particular kind of roleplaying that Cheliax lends itself towards would die down a bit if it were not a faction.
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In all the tables I've run and played at, I've had exactly 2 Silver Crusade players.
Honestly, I think it would make a great plot device to have the heads of the Crusade missing/ indisposed for the duration (at least chunk of it) of Season 5. The theme appears to be demons, and not only are paladins/ clerics opposed to them.... but so are devils.
Devils = law
Demons = chaos
We have some awesome opportunities to see further interaction between Cheliax and the Crusade, and really - the Crusade is stiffly lawful and blind to anything that they don't consider "good"... why are they still dealing with the Society?
The Pathfinder Society is reckless and takes little thought of endangering operatives. These don't make positive qualities in my mind for a bunch of stiff-lipped paladins and higher-than-thous.
Just my opinion, though.
I've gone Silver Crusade for all of my characters after the first. I have little interest in the political intrigue and I'm not interested in committing any sort of questionable or evil act. Having a pure good group is important I think.
I'll have to wait and see what happens. I'm not interested in making any predictions.
Paladins, as a class, need a home they can feel good about in PFS just as much as the EEE-VILE (sorta) Chelaxians. Andoran, while "good", have had some pretty questionable faction missions. Grand Lodge might be ok, but some classes need some safe choices for factions, and this is one.
Plus, Silver Crusade vs Cheliax would play up well, much better than Andoran vs Cheliax. Likeise, I think Taldor vs Qadira needs to happen, just like Grand vs Shadow Lodges. Every faction needs at least one, perhaps two "opposites", not for pvp, but for good natured rivalries.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Amusingly, the Shadow Lodge/Grand Lodge conflict fills, I feel, a real need. Such disputes have happened in real life.
Now that said, one of the things I remember from reading Mother Jones' biography was that the two enemies of the worker were the corporation and their own leadership. Meaning that if the later got too complacent, they became a threat to the employee. (My dad experienced this first hand) If Paizo continues to advance the faction war, a 'grey council' style revolt against the Shadow Lodge, for many of the same reasons the Shadow Lodge claims to support against the Grand Lodge, would make sense.
I smell a scenario there...the Matewan Incident?
The Matewan being a ship, of course, that is wholly unconnected to labor history. :P
Amusingly searching Wikipedia turned up This which jogged my memory. I'm pretty sure this is where Mother Jones walked right up to the machinegunners baiting them to shoot her. (Sounds like a typical day in an Andoran town to me. :P)
Also reminded me of Rendville, near where I grew up.
(It's amazing how much history happened in my little county.
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There are bigger risks, but not bigger rewards?Loot prediction: You don't get extra loot for playing up, you get loot for the tier you are.
Sure!
What most people have been saying is that they play up for the greater challenge. So, if this is true, then they shouldn't care if the rewards don't change, right?
Personally, I think the rewards should be based on character level, and should be constant throughout the various adventures.
Example:
Level 1: 500gp
Level 2: 750gp
Level 3: 1000gp
Level 4: 1500gp
...
Or something like that. This would help balance the "wealth by level" issues, I think.
Oh, and also, I think that the available items on the chronicle should reflect the sub-tier, since those are the items that were found/encountered.
Also, if we were to do this, then you could (potentially) apply a pregen chronicle to any character, of any level (since they would only get wealth based on their level).
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Sure!
What most people have been saying is that they play up for the greater challenge. So, if this is true, then they shouldn't care if the rewards don't change, right?
Actually, I think it was the consensus that most play up for the loot. I was/am planning to play Ksenia up whenever possible for the challenge, but also for the reward (since I'd be blowing through consumables much faster.)
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I don't think they are getting rid of season zero, but...
My guess/hope for wealth change is new standardized chronicle sheets for season zero, to bring rewards more in line with later seasons. No longer should we suffer through crappy sheets like "Drow of the Darkland Pyramids" with underwhelming gold for their tier!
That would make my day.
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On the other hand, it would help to take away the incentive to build a super-powered PC which strips the fun of his tablemates away.
And tables could play up solely for a challenge, not for any additional rewards. Tables could play the Tier that's most appropriate for them, instead of what's best for their gold purses.
Right, but what about mismatched tables? When everything shakes down, sometimes there's no way around a table composed of two 5th levels and two 1st levels. The 1st levels don't want to play up with no reward, and if the 5th levels play down with no penalty they can do the scenario by themselves.
Although I guess this could prompt the 5th levels to make new 1st level characters. But sometimes you just really need that one XP so you can play the module the next day. Although, since the XP wouldn't change ...
... well. I guess it could work, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea. :P
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I don't think they are getting rid of season zero, but...
My guess/hope for wealth change is new standardized chronicle sheets for season zero, to bring rewards more in line with later seasons. No longer should we suffer through crappy sheets like "Drow of the Darkland Pyramids" with underwhelming gold for their tier!
That would make my day.
But yeah, I agree.
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I do not think that the Chilish faction should be removed. It needs to be changed somewhat. Baroness Zetra needs to be replaced she is far too decadant as written by the writers to last long in the political strugles as written. I think The New Chilish Faction leader should be the Hellknight that is Married to the Blackrose sister. Provides much more to Role play Then Zetra. Has the Adoran guy as a nemisis. He also has ties to an important ally to the society.
I do not see the Churuch of Asmodeus supporting Barness Zetra in any way she is too decadant for thier tastes IMO.
As far as the two factions being axed I wold think that the Lanturn lodge and the Scarzni for the reason in my lodge I have on seen 1 character from each of thoose factions and I play in a fairly large area the Bay Area.
As far as Wealth By level goes I hate it I realize that it is nessary for balance reasons but I think for the risks pathfinders take the wealth they get is chinchy the TEN are cheap skates IMO. Increase the wealth in levels 1-5 but keep it the same in levels 6 to 11 this would IMO stop people from thinking the need to Play up at lower levels to get more wealth.
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I think Two Wolves has it correct. I think the three safest are Andoran, Silver Crusade and Grand Lodge and I would be surprised to see any of those three go. Personally I think it's two of Taldor, Szcarni, Lantern Lodge, Osirion and Cheliax.
Personally I like all the factions. I'm sorry to see two go.
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My active characters and factions are
Holden Kane - Gunslinger 8/ Cleric 1 - Silver Crusade
Nuri the Blind - Barbarian 1/ Oracle 2 / Sorcerer 1 -Osirian
Marcell Tibor - Fighter 2/ Bard 1 - Taldor
Vance Caster - Wizard 1 - Grand Lodge
and my dead character was
Bin - Alchemist 1 - Qadira
I'd hate to lose Taldor or Silver Crusade because those factions add the most to my characters that have them, roleplay-wise.
Osirian seems to be a favorite of the store I organize in. Though Shadow Lodge seems to have the most failed missions.
In the end I'd like to see Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge go because I don't have ideas for characters from them.
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Considering that there are season zero scenarios scheduled for Gen Con this year, this does not seem likely.I hope they don't retire Season 0 entirely - without Season 0, Among the Dead makes no sense, and several decent scenarios would be lost. Season 0 gives a nice option for GMs who want to run a second, short session with low risk to players after a really rough scenario.But my real prediction is that all Season Zero scenarios will be requested to be removed from future play. There's no good in continuing adventures set 5 years ago, with different factions and different adversaries. The challenge ratings are ridiculous and the overall feel, to me, anyways, just isn't the same as the newer ones.I have heard whispers of this being a likely possibility. I don't know if they'll wait till the end of summer when season 5 rolls out or start with this announcement. We'll find out today!
Yeah...I'm running Among the Living, Among the Dead, and Among the Gods there, so they can't be getting rid of season 0 (at least in its entirety). I'd also think it would be counterproductive overall IMO.
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I am curious. I see differences of opinion on which factions should be removed.
Does anyone think that no faction should be removed?
(I do not. I do think at least two factions should go.)
I think 9 factions should be removed, personally, or at least reduced in importance so the game again becomes a TEAM game, instead of a bunch of individuals after different things, who might accidentally accomplish the Society's assignment along the way. Factions should be unlinked from equipment access at the very least, so you aren't penalized by refusing to go and pick up a special set of panties for someone who isn't your employer, instead of doing your job.
If it's only two going? I vote for Sczarni, and Sczarni. A faction whose stated objective is "use the Society for personal gain" has no place in a group game except as an enemy.