Champions of Purity - Summon Good Creatures lists - Add or Replace?


Rules Questions


The "Summoning Good Creatures" lists on the inside back cover confuse me a little.

There is a feat there which says, as part of its benefit, that casters "also gain access to the list of good monsters above."

So far, so good. Except... many of them are already available. Many are Celestial-template versions of the standard animal, and those are already in the Core description of the spell.

So... if they are meant to be additions, they are not, and there are others that are also available (Celestial Dire Rat, for example) in the Core that are not on this list.

If the new list is meant to replace the Core, that might make more sense, but that is not what it says. I can see taking away some options for balance, as there are several new options that might be stronger.

Are the lists here meant to replace the standard lists in the Core Rulebook, or to add to them?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

How do you have this book?

Sczarni

I believe you are supposed to replace the list entirely.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No, seriously, I have a subscription to the Pathfinder Player Companion books, and I don't have this book yet.

How the hell do you have this book?


It just means your copy hasn't shipped yet. You get access to the PDF when they ship your copy.


Ansel Krulwich wrote:
It just means your copy hasn't shipped yet. You get access to the PDF when they ship your copy.

Yep.. my subscriptions don't show on my main posting "alias", but my subscription shipped late yesterday afternoon Pacific time.. and I immediately downloaded the PDF.

Mikaze has a good rundown of the contents in the product discussion thread.

lantzkev wrote:
I believe you are supposed to replace the list entirely.

I agree that it seems likely the intent is to replace the standard list, but it does not say that. The wording may be an artifact of editing; perhaps the second benefit was originally listed first, or perhaps there was another benefit that was later cut... but as written, these seem to be additions.

There are several that *are* additions, and that is something players of good-aligned conjurer/summoner types will appreciate.


What is the wording of the entry?


"Champions of Purity, Summon Good Monsters feat wrote:


Benefit: When casting summon monster, you also gain access to
the list of good monsters above. Your righteous determination grants
these summoned creatures the Diehard feat. You may still summon
creatures from the standard list, but without the Diehard feat.

As written, it seems to be trying to add to the selections.

Edit: I guess the point may be that these get the effects of Diehard while the standard list does not... except that there are still entries on the standard list that seem quite like the ones on the modified list.

Dark Archive

Urath DM wrote:
"Champions of Purity, Summon Good Monsters feat wrote:


Benefit: When casting summon monster, you also gain access to
the list of good monsters above. Your righteous determination grants
these summoned creatures the Diehard feat. You may still summon
creatures from the standard list, but without the Diehard feat.

As written, it seems to be trying to add to the selections.

Edit: I guess the point may be that these get the effects of Diehard while the standard list does not... except that there are still entries on the standard list that seem quite like the ones on the modified list.

That clears it up quite a bit. You add the new critters, some of which are also on the 'old' list, but only stuff on the new list gets Diehard, which explains why some critters on the standard list are also on the new list, because they are eligible for Diehard, unlike other critters on the standard list.

Of course, a strict interpretation of the rules would have Diehard being useless for summoned creatures, but, clearly, in this case, it's intended to work, and the Diehard-y summoned creatures not disappearing until they reach negative Con score, instead of at 0.


So, when they say Diehard, they actually mean ferocity?

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