Request for a generic GM credit chronicle


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Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

For those asking for repeat credit, let me ask you a question.

If you were in a situtaion of either having to GM an scenario again for no credit or players have to go home due to a lack of GM, what would you do?

4/5

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Artanthos wrote:

You would need to develop a large pool of players in order to do so.

A win/win for Paizo and the DM.

I'm beginning to come to the realization that my area may be an anomaly. With at least six venues running games, we're running (I'm guessing/estimating) about 28 scenarios a month (many for more than one table). Some of those may be repeats of a scenario run earlier in the month (or earlier in the year) at a different venue, so there is almost always an opportunity to run a scenario more than once. Yes, we sometimes have waiting lists and it's possible not everyone who wants to play will be able (our player base seems to be ever increasing), but that's usually not due to a lack of GMs, but rather a lack of tables and/or space.

In my area, I have never heard of an inability to find a GM for a table because a GM refused to run a scenario again for no credit.


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Dragnmoon wrote:

For those asking for repeat credit, let me ask you a question.

If you were in a situtaion of either having to GM an scenario again for no credit or players have to go home due to a lack of GM, what would you do?

Ooh, nice way to frame it up as the good guys vs. the bad guys.

How about this one, someone calls for a GM 70 miles away, and you respond 'yes' and drive down there and take care of the lack because you want credit for the module. Does that make you a slimy mercenary? (and yes, I have done this)

So to answer your question, without the GM credit, no I wouldn't have driven the 70 miles, and yes those players would have gone home.

Happy?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Dragnmoon wrote:

For those asking for repeat credit, let me ask you a question.

If you were in a situtaion of either having to GM an scenario again for no credit or players have to go home due to a lack of GM, what would you do?

Find something else to play that wasn't PFS, just like the other players.

Or if that's not an option because it's Paizocon and a GM just got taken out with food poisoning then I'd run the scenario as best I could, understanding that it was an exceptional situation. But the key there is that it was exceptional.

If the convention was being run in a way that made this likely or frequent I simply wouldn't bother attending in future, and might well cut my stay short and find something else to do for the rest of the weekend.

Extra GM credit wouldn't transform my approach to the situation, but it would make me more likely to run PFS in the first instance; it would be a pleasant reward in the second; and I still wouldn't bother turning up in the third (and I now skip those conventions completely).

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

drbuzzard wrote:

So to answer your question, without the GM credit, no I wouldn't have driven the 70 miles, and yes those players would have gone home.

Happy?

If you are driving 70 Miles to a game, as a coordinator I would not begrudge you.


Dragnmoon wrote:

For those asking for repeat credit, let me ask you a question.

If you were in a situtaion of either having to GM an scenario again for no credit or players have to go home due to a lack of GM, what would you do?

I'm fairly new to PFS, and on months I can play at all, I dm on average 2-3 times in those months. However, I strongly prefer to run 1-5s because I can apply them to low level characters. I strongly prefer not to run the same scenarios again and I only will do so when given incentives toward it, such as at large cons, or there is nothing else going on. Typically, my stance is that I already am DMing at good rate, so why should I sacrifice additionally so that other people can loaf. With that said, out of 28 credits, I have around 7 repeats.

Some people are in areas where a small number of dms run everything. I'm not in one of those areas. It's virtually all 0-2 stars around here, and virtually every one of them wants credit for low level characters. As a result, I've seen many decent DMs decide to play at their assigned tables instead of repeating a scenario as a DM.


Dragnmoon wrote:


If you are driving 70 Miles to a game, as a coordinator I would not begrudge you.

Where is the limit on that? I often drive around 30 miles to one game store, and do judge there. My normal game store is around 15 miles away.

Is there some radius of travel at which point it is acceptable for me to feel put upon?

Shadow Lodge

Correct me if I am wrong but you can get repeat credit for any level one or low tier scenario or module as both a player and a GM correct?

4/5

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
drbuzzard wrote:
Is there some radius of travel at which point it is acceptable for me to feel put upon?

Tone and intent are so hard to convey in these forums, so please don't think I'm being flippant or snarky.

But if doing something makes you "feel put upon," you probably shouldn't do it.


graypark wrote:


Tone and intent are so hard to convey in these forums, so please don't think I'm being flippant or snarky.
But if doing something makes you "feel put upon," you probably shouldn't do it.

Ok, let's try this phrasing. A what radius of travel am I supposed to feel a clear conscience for not stepping up to judge a module without reward so those poor PC waifs don't have to go home with hungry tummies?

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

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Personally, I think that the true value in GM credit is that it enables GMs to maintain their characters as players. Were it not for GM credit, I'd probably have a single character around level 6. As it stands, I have a level 8, a level 7, a level 4 and a level 2. If I had repeat credit, I'd have another 17 credits. Why have I repeated scenarios so much? Because I run at my local game day and online for a small crew of 4-7 players. When I prepare a scenario for one, if I like it, I will often run it for the other. Do I need these extra 17 credits? Hardly. It would be nice, but it's by no means necessary. I think that my running these scenarios multiple times has been valuable. It's nice to be able to have a wide variety of characters to choose from when I do play, and having that variety helps me show newer players how various classes can be played interestingly and effectively.

In the end, I seriously doubt that anybody would start GMming, though, just to get repeat chronicle sheets. Why? Because the average player doesn't spend that much on consumables, meaning that the GM chronicle is more of a parity with what the PC would have earned had they played rather than GM. It just helps them keep up with their friends.

So, what WOULD be the effect of repeat chronicles? It would be a nice nod to GMs, especially convention GMs. It would encourage the creation of new and hopefully unique characters, since convention GMs wouldn't be able to apply all 5 chronicles to the same character. It certainly would not be game breaking.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

The Point of that question was to point out that PFS needs GMs that want to GM that want to grow PFS and the community, no matter the reward. That PFS and its growth is more important than a GM reward.

GM credit is nice but it is not needed. What we need are more GMs that GM because they Love to, and they want PFS to grow in their area.

In a normal situation the Coordinator schedules games weeks out and requests GMs. If no one picks up the GMing that shows that you have too many players that don't care if a game does not happen and players have to go home or never show because there is no GM. In situations like that there is no growth and no community.

If I have a GM that refuses to GM because he does not get any credit out of it, then he does not care about our growth and community, and I don't need or want GMs like that because they are just a stop gap for that one day not a investment for our growth.

We need ideas that encourage more GMs to GM because they want to help PFS grow, to help the local community. GM credit only encourages more selfishness and GMing just to get credit. GMs like that are useless to me as a coordinator because they are not helping my area grow.

So any Ideas on how to get more GMs that want to help the community and the growth of PFS? Because that is what I need right now.


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So, here's the thing.

Many of you are saying that GM credit encourages people to just run a scenario once without getting to know it. You don't support extra GM credit because you think that will just become more widespread.

But isn't the point of this to encourage people to run a scenario more than once? If the trouble with GMs is they don't get to know the scenarios well, and running a scenario four times is the only way to get good at it, isn't this exactly what we should be doing to encourage that very phenomenon?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

drbuzzard wrote:
Ok, let's try this phrasing. A what radius of travel am I supposed to feel a clear conscience for not stepping up to judge a module without reward so those poor PC waifs don't have to go home with hungry tummies?

To tell you the truth, if you have to ask this question, I don't want you to GM, because your are not fostering community. Which is fine, not everyone needs to fit what I need for a GM.


Dragnmoon wrote:


If I have a GM that refuses to GM because he does not get any credit out of it, then he does not care about our growth and community, and I don't need or want GMs like that because they are just a stop gap for that one day not a investment for our growth.

We need ideas that encourage more GMs to GM because they want to help PFS grow, to help the local community. GM credit only encourages more selfishness and GMing just to get credit. GMs like that are useless to me as a coordinator because they are not helping my area grow.

So any Ideas on how to get more GMs that want to help the community and the growth of PFS? Because that is what I need right now.

Notice how you make a distinction between people that are gms and players. That is probably your problem. People are a gm or a player for a particular table, not in general.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Dragnmoon wrote:
drbuzzard wrote:
Ok, let's try this phrasing. A what radius of travel am I supposed to feel a clear conscience for not stepping up to judge a module without reward so those poor PC waifs don't have to go home with hungry tummies?
To tell you the truth, if you have to ask this question, I don't want you to GM, because your are not fostering community. Which is fine, not everyone needs to fit what I need for a GM.

Sorry, Dragnmoon, I find this offensive.

I GM every other Saturday. I *also* have stepped up to GM at other bi-weekly events when something gangs aglay, *and* I keep a 'first steps kit' in case we need a spare table.

So you're saying that because I want to have a 'Devil We Know' kit for those emergencies, and get GM credit for running it again I'm not fostering community? You actually believe that my 'sucking it up' and GMing a new scenario instead of playing or sending people home is not 'fostering community'?

To tell you the truth, if you feel that way, I don't want you to play, because you are not fostering community. Which is fine, not everyone needs to fit what I need for a player.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
But isn't the point of this to encourage people to run a scenario more than once?

I think for those of us against this idea, That GMs should not need to be encouraged to have to GM, they should be GMing because they want to, they want to see the sense of community fostered and PFS to grow in their area.

We want ways to get more GMs with that mentality because that helps PFS as a whole more than players who need incentives and rewards to GM.

A Gm who does so only because he is getting credit is fine for a short duration fix, but it does not help PFS in the long run because that GM is not helping the sense of community and growth. Having a GM gming because it helps the area encourage the same in other players, while having GMs who only GM for credit encourages that in other players.

Incentives work very well for Large Events because you need a quick fix to fit all those chairs, but are not a great help for long time growth.

Shadow Lodge

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:

So, here's the thing.

Many of you are saying that GM credit encourages people to just run a scenario once without getting to know it. You don't support extra GM credit because you think that will just become more widespread.

But isn't the point of this to encourage people to run a scenario more than once? If the trouble with GMs is they don't get to know the scenarios well, and running a scenario four times is the only way to get good at it, isn't this exactly what we should be doing to encourage that very phenomenon?

It would be interesting if there was a different sheet or check box that you marked each time you run a scenario.

for example, the first time you run a scenario you get normal rewards. The next time you run you get a title or some sort of trinket/RP reward specific to that scenario that you can apply to a character. The third time you get a boon of some kind that has a minor effect. If you run it a fourth time it restarts back at the first reward, except for a different character.


Dragnmoon wrote:
drbuzzard wrote:
Ok, let's try this phrasing. A what radius of travel am I supposed to feel a clear conscience for not stepping up to judge a module without reward so those poor PC waifs don't have to go home with hungry tummies?
To tell you the truth, if you have to ask this question, I don't want you to GM, because your are not fostering community. Which is fine, not everyone needs to fit what I need for a GM.

I'm so sorry that that I am not willing to forgo my own interest for the betterment of the PFS collective.

Hmm, I wonder if one of our highest rates judges who does it because it helps business at his game store should give it up as well. I mean damn, that's pure self interest. We can't have that.

Or perhaps people will manage to muddle along just fine with people who act in their own interest. We seem to be doing pretty well in my area, and have no lack of new players. I guess my damned selfish behavior hasn't ruined anything.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Matthew Morris wrote:

Sorry, Dragnmoon, I find this offensive.

I GM every other Saturday. I *also* have stepped up to GM at other bi-weekly events when something gangs aglay, *and* I keep a 'first steps kit' in case we need a spare table.

Then for you more GM credit is a Nicety not a necessity. I am fine with that. If no more credit was given it would not stop you from GMing, that is great!

I am aiming my comments only at those who will not GMing if they get nothing for it.

4/5

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

In many threads across these forums, I've seen trust mentioned more than once.

I have but one, final thing to contribute to this conversation: I trust our campaign leadership.

Whatever is decided, my desire to GM or not GM will remain unchanged. I trust our campaign leadership to consider this discussion and either act or not act as they deem appropriate. And I'm more than willing to support whatever decision is made.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

People are complicated. No person is motivated solely by one thing. Lots of factors go into decision making. GM credit would just be one part of a larger decision making process, one which would also involve giving back to the community and having fun running a scenario.


Dragnmoon wrote:


Then for you more GM credit is a Nicety not a necessity. I am fine with that. If no more credit was given it would not stop you from GMing, that is great!

I am aiming my comments only at those who will not GMing if they get nothing for it.

So you'd rather have a lousy GM who wants to 'foster community' than a top flight GM with mercenary motives.

Good to know.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

I just don't think WHY people GM is important. I think HOW they GM is though. (While surely these can be related, they are not identical and I think people are incorrectly using anecdotal experiences regarding HOW to paint broad brush strokes about WHY)

Are you GMing because you feel duty bound to contribute your fair share?
Are you GMing because you don't want to pay this week's entry fee?
Are you GMing because you can get another chronicle sheet?
Are you GMing because you want to learn what that side of the table is like?

Are we really suggesting it's a bad idea to encourage people to GM because they might GM for a reason we don't like?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Dragnmoon wrote:
GM credit only encourages more selfishness and GMing just to get credit. GMs like that are useless to me as a coordinator because they are not helping my area grow.

On the contrary, GMs like that are absolutely what you need to help your area grow. They increase the number of tables, and so long as they're professional about it and run every table to the best of their ability they're just as valid as a GM motivated by sheer virtuousness.

We're not talking about players who refuse to do their bit, meaning they take from the community without giving anything back. We're talking about GMs who've run scenarios before - who've stepped up and done their fair share already. Anyone who's willing to do that already has my thanks, and if we can find a way to encourage them to run even more games then we should consider it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Let's look at the other side.

Players can also help the community and the growth of PFS.

They can do so by helping new players learn the game and the Rules of PFS. They can encourage new players to join. There are plenty of things that can help just as a player, which is great! If you don't want to or can't encourage growth as a GM do so as a player.


I see no real need for this.
PFS already provides GMs with way way way more reward for GMing than most live campaigns. You get 1xp, 2pp, all the gold, and the boons. There are also a bunch of other rewards you may get for GMing at your local game night or convention.

As a counter example, I also GM shadowrun missions. As a GM I get.....NOTHING.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

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Lab_Rat wrote:

I see no real need for this.

PFS already provides GMs with way way way more reward for GMing than most live campaigns. You get 1xp, 2pp, all the gold, and the boons. There are also a bunch of other rewards you may get for GMing at your local game night or convention.

As a counter example, I also GM shadowrun missions. As a GM I get.....NOTHING.

Just because something is done poorly in another campaign doesn't mean that we should do it poorly.

Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

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It seems some people here which made themselves an important and therefore also respected part of this community because they obviously contribute a lot in one way or the other should sometimes too take a break, step back and breathe through.

I noticed this in some other threads too, the tone often gets very harsh very quick, mostly unneccesarily. Everyone shares this problem of communicating here in written form, where subtones and intentions are not so clear, but only the written word remains.

Some also make rather strong occurances and speak about a "we" often in relation with a "don´t want this or that". Such is very fit to alienate and exclude other people. Surely no good thing.

Also it really can´t be the point to pressure through one´s own view of something called "table variation" to dominance, because this game is after all mostly communication.

As far as i can see it, players and GM´s are the same and in an optimal way one should be able to do both. That is one of the main points for getting a GM credit, because it enables people to keep their own character in range of the group they play with.
Getting credit for one scenario as GM and player empowered me personaly very much. I was able to play Frostfur Captives here on this forum online thanks to a nice person, which also showed me how to GM in a good way pushing the scenario at points where the players faltered.
Shortly after i hosted the first PFS Game in my region very successfuly with that scenario. I have some players here that tend to falter very much for roleplay reasons and spend hours with little things and i could use my experiences quite good. The players felt a little railroaded but at the same time liked the scenario and the fact what was accomplished in one evening.

So far i´m the only PFS GM here. Being able to GM the same scenario twice perhaps with different groups and get a credit would empower me muh further. Of course i would also love to play new scenarios, but at the moment i´m looking at a very new player base here and i´m the only one buying stuff and also my time is limited. I do enjoy GMing just for GMing, because it´s fun to enable others to have fun and tell a good story.

Against this speaks the fact that there are seasons and Paizo of course wants and needs to sell stuff. Also the campaign moves on.

This discussion has a lot more layers than some persons admitt and there may be people who find themselves in completely different situations. "Judging" those people from afar furthers nothing, but spoils the motto of cooperation.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

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The idea I am getting at, is that for sustained growth of PFS in a local area it is better to have a sense of community and Esprit de corps, without that the community may fail and further growth may not happen. I have seen things fail because of that lack of community, but I have never seen something fail because the majority was doing it because they loved it unless there was some kind of outside influence.

Having a few GMs that only do so because they get something out of it can be fine as long as they are not your majority. A Majority will influence more than a Minority. I want to avoid the majority of my GMs only doing so because they get something out of it because a community may not sustain that and grow.

Anything that encourages Esprit de corps is a lot more preferable then things that may encourage the opposite Someone who does something more for the community then the opposite encourages that in others, and that is what I would rather see. Having more people in your group that encourages that can be better because without that in the long run it may fall apart.

I am not trying to insult anyone here, I am just trying to show my opinion on what I think is better for the growth of PFS. If you are being insulted then you are reading what I am writing incorrectly and/or adding things I am not saying.


I was more making the statement that PFS is NOT done poorly. It is in fact done extremely well.


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Lab_Rat wrote:
I was more making the statement that PFS is NOT done poorly. It is in fact done extremely well.

That doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

Also, a thought I had while I wandered off to do dishes: If I could run Dalsine Affair over and over for credit, I'd probably never run anything else. So maybe this idea does have some drawbacks, in that it could easily encourage hyperspecialization, which isn't ideal.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:
I was more making the statement that PFS is NOT done poorly. It is in fact done extremely well.

That doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

Also, a thought I had while I wandered off to do dishes: If I could run Dalsine Affair over and over for credit, I'd probably never run anything else. So maybe this idea does have some drawbacks.

Odd, I really didn't care for that scenario when I ran it. Regardless, you'd quickly run out of players who could play it for credit.

4/5

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I've noticed that players in my area only play when they get chronicle sheets. I'm starting to worry that they only play so they can advance their characters, rather than for the good of the community.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Dragnmoon wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

Sorry, Dragnmoon, I find this offensive.

I GM every other Saturday. I *also* have stepped up to GM at other bi-weekly events when something gangs aglay, *and* I keep a 'first steps kit' in case we need a spare table.

Then for you more GM credit is a Nicety not a necessity. I am fine with that. If no more credit was given it would not stop you from GMing, that is great!

I am aiming my comments only at those who will not GMing if they get nothing for it.

You missed the point of my post in only quoting part of it.

I have a 'first steps kit' because (unless I understand wrong) I can claim GM credit multiple times for First Steps. I don't keep a 'Devil We Know' kit, because I don't get GM credit. From a mercenary POV, I can put 'first steps' on a First level character, and then have an 'above average' level 1 to ride shotgun on a table of 'squeeky newbies' and help keep them alive. "Yup, bought this CLW wand you're sucking dry with my first 2 PP, important thing to learn."*

When I show up at the table, and I see 7+ other people, I'm forsaking my registered space at a table for my higher tier character, which I enjoy playing, to instead run a game for 'walk ins'. Is the goal to get them to be more than 'walk ins?' Hells yes. Do I want some compensation for my sacrifice? Would I be less inclined to 'take the hit' if I got nothing out of it? Yes.**

Aside: I'm running tables at Origins not for the badge/parking pass (though those are nice) but to put my mental health to the test. Again... Mercenary.

*

Spoiler:
The Icebound Outpost, Ksenia had GM credit on her, and as a result, CLW. Because we were a table of 3, I took on a Kyra to save the GM the headache. Since we were level ones (well Ksenia was level 2) my PP powered CLW wand was our major source of healing.

**
Spoiler:
Now I've a VC who is good at gifting us scenarios. I'd be more willing to run Fortress of the Nail, or Quest for Perfection, since I didn't pay for them, and I enjoy the scenarios. But again it's less cost out of pocket for me vs. less reward.


Netopalis wrote:
Odd, I really didn't care for that scenario when I ran it. Regardless, you'd quickly run out of players who could play it for credit.

It wouldn't be that quick. We have a lot of players. But yeah, that's my thought. Nerds, on the whole, tend to be a little bit obsessive about their favorite things. So people will get really in to one scenario and run it over and over and then they'll run out of players and many of them will wander off. The current system encourages variation, which is good.

Or ... maybe not, since the rewards would still be there for everything else. Hm. It's hard to predict.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston aka Netopalis

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
Odd, I really didn't care for that scenario when I ran it. Regardless, you'd quickly run out of players who could play it for credit.

It wouldn't be that quick. We have a lot of players. But yeah, that's my thought. Nerds, on the whole, tend to be a little bit obsessive about their favorite things. So people will get really in to one scenario and run it over and over and then they'll run out of players and many of them will wander off. The current system encourages variation, which is good.

Or ... maybe not, since the rewards would still be there for everything else. Hm. It's hard to predict.

Well, I've ran Severing Ties 4 times: Twice at a convention, once for my local game day and once online. Would I do it again if asked? Absolutely! It's definitely one of my favorite scenarios. I imagine that I'll end up running The Veteran's Vault about 7 times, between my Origins GM schedule and my online/local game days. I doubt that I'll ever experience burnout on the first one because it's a great scenario. As for the second...ask me in a couple of months. :P


Have to say I agree with most of everything Dragnmoon has said in this thread.

It isn't about how far you're willing to drive, or even the GM credit or lack thereof. It's about people who are willing to step up and do what's needed in order to grow our hobby what we are all a part of and enjoy.

There are those that GM only when necessary and for them the GM credit is key, there are those that travel god only knows how may hours (10 at least for me**) to attend a convention and GM -- if for no other reason than to give those local GMs a chance for a break and to sit down and play. ** and no, didn't receive GM credit for all of those as most of them were re-runs for me**

I'll state my case again; the balance we have is perfect.

edit to avoid assuming anything for anyone

Grand Lodge

Insulting the motivations of GMs because they dont align with your own isnt going to accomplish anything in this thread. I dont agree with the idea behind this thread, but I dont need to insult anyone else to say it.

Feel free to have your own opinions on the matter, but ridiculing one another isnt going to get this thread looked at for any reason beyond possibly deleting posts.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

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Matthew Morris wrote:

You missed the point of my post in only quoting part of it.

I have a 'first steps kit' because (unless I understand wrong) I can claim GM credit multiple times for First Steps. I don't keep a 'Devil We Know' kit, because I don't get GM credit.

Yes I did miss don't part, sorry.

We are at a point in our growth of our local area where walk-ins are not an issue unless we had an extreme number show up all at once.

Where I am having problems is having GMs that are willing to GM to help us grow.

We have about 6 GMs that will always GM no matter what, and I run 6 games throughout the day. So if 1 or more GMs can't make it It is like pulling teeth here to get someone else to GM. I have about 6 more players that are good at GMing but rarely GM unless it is a Convention and they are getting in for free, the scenario for free and getting a Boon. One of them it is a funds issue so I don't count him, I know he wants to but has limitations that make it difficult.

I have warned about cancelling games, about having to send players home and still people do not sign up to GM.

I have failed at encouraging community and finding more GMs who want to GM for our community. More GM credit will not help that because the games I am offering they have Not GMed so that is not an issue. I need ways and ideas to get people to GM or find GMs that want to GM because they love it and because they love adding to the community.

I have a couple of players that are almost ready to fit that bill but are not quite there.

I have too many players that care little about the community and that is just encouraging it more. I am friends with most of our players and I like most of them so I don't want to do anything that will make them leave but I need to find a way to get them think more about other players and making sure everyone gets to play then just thinking of themselves.

The idea of more GM credit can be helpful, but it can also be harmful as shown by those who have posted their experience on it.

What we need are ideas that a Helpful without being harmful.

Though I have some ideas for doing this locally with help with our VLs (And by putting more heads together on our problem) I would like to see more ideas that work campaign wide, and I just don't see more GM credit as that idea due to it's harmful side.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
Have to say I agree with most of everything Dragnmoon has said in this thread.

Sorry about that Thea... Hope that did not hurt you too much for you to say that...;)

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:

Have to say I agree with most of everything Dragnmoon has said in this thread.

O_O

I...I just...where am I, again?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Drogon wrote:
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:

Have to say I agree with most of everything Dragnmoon has said in this thread.

O_O

I...I just...where am I, again?

Colorado?

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Dragnmoon,

We *do* have GM growth here as well. A couple (female, for you data crunchers) new GMs are cooking nicely, and I'm more than happy to play a pre-gen, or better still one of my experienced or brand new characters to 'ride shotgun'. This also allows me to play a scenario I may have already GMed, and makes sure they have a friendly player to serve as 'training wheels' (aside, season 1 scenarios are great for this. Full PFS rules, without being overwhelmed for options.)

So my need to step up will (in theory) be less and less. We still are blessed with walk ins, as well as some local folk who I can't seem to lure to the store.

Any change is going to have pros and cons. Discussing if the change will do more harm than good is fine. Dismissing the change, or arguing for the change, w.o consideration is not.

The Exchange

Doug Miles wrote:
I don't really start to enjoy a scenario until I have run it 3 or 4 times as a GM. That is my motivation to run a scenario multiple times; the players get a progressively better experience. I concur with TetsujinOni. In addition, all the work prepping a scenario is done on the front end. GMing the same scenario multiple times is like running downhill.

This is an argument for allowing GMs to get credit more than once IMO.

There are a lot of GMs that Master Games out of necessity, these GMs usually don't want to run the same thing multiple times, because they want credit. I know of at least 1 (myself).

I have run a couple things more than once. (Burnt offerings, Feast of Ravenmoor, City of strangers) I can certainly tell that my being prepared and having the insight of "oh this is how these PCs handled it" makes the scenario better, makes me a better GM that session, and helps everyone else out :).

I try very hard to only run things I have played, just to have a little better insight into the adventure from a player side.

I always want to create the most fun experience I can (I own a store, it's VERY important that players enjoy their experience) However, I also like playing higher level characters a lot and I always have a million things I want to build... so I want them credits :).

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Ooops, before I start getting my local players to think I am insulting them ;) I want to make clear that they do a great job as players and fostering a helpful attitude as players, it is just a pain to get them to GM. ;)


Matthew Morris wrote:
A couple new GMs are cooking nicely

Maybe this is regional, but here in San Diego we allow our GMs to leave alive and totally uncooked. I guess that qualifies as a reward in and of itself?

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
A couple new GMs are cooking nicely
Maybe this is regional, but here in San Diego we allow our GMs to leave alive and totally uncooked. I guess that qualifies as a reward in and of itself?

GMing with me and Michael McNerney at the same table? What else are you going to do in the hot seat?

4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Aside from the supposition that a GM isn't any good unless they're a martyr, why do we care about their motivation?

Grizzled, selfless veteran GM: Are you all prepped and ready to go?
Newbie GM: I sure am. Nervous, though. You know, I'm not sure my character would survive this. Glad he'll be getting his credit from the sidelines. Plus he'll level up, which will be nice so I can finally start doing those 5-9s.
Grizzled, selfless veteran GM (barely concealing his disgust): You clearly aren't cut out for this. Give me that scenario, go home, and think about why you're even here. This is for the good of the community.

AND THE COMMUNITY GROWS

Maybe the reason many of us find it hard to get GMs is because they're held to an impossibly high standard, while players are treated like delicate flowers who must be catered to lest they threaten to leave the campaign.

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