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Compared to alchemists, bards and inquisitors, the magus seems rather weak. He has a medium BAB and no good way to increase it. There's an arcana that let's him add his intelligence bonus but that one uses a swift action and is also rather costly. He can also increase his weapons enhancement bonus, but he can't raise it over +5.
With the limitation of haste, zorroing Arcane Marks doesn't seem that good, either. Shocking Grasp seems impressive till you meet an archer or charger. Blades Dash + Spell Combat is nice, but he's still limited to a one-handed weapon, so true pounce is probably better.
I have to say, I'm unimpressed. So, what is great about the magus?
They cook encounters with an impressive pounce ability and the ability to spam touch spells while full attacking while hasted. Sounds like a fun gig to me. Dervish dance makes them dependant on just dex/int with a bit of con love. They have abilities that enhance their weapon and can still attack in the same turn and can use metamagic for almost free using their arcana. They're also the only class that can use magic and full attack in the same turn without quickened spells.
Optimized Shocking Grasp use is good for burst damage. A first level spell that does 10d6 that doubles on 15-20 and has an extra +3 to hit versus targets with metal armor isn't that bad. And then there's weapon damage too. Doesn't compare to an optimized archer like you said, but few things do for raw damage.
Weapon Enhancing capping at +5 isn't the end of the world; you just add other properties after that. Still I understand what you mean about Magus hit rates; 3/4 BAB with the -2 from Spell Combat can be daunting, though Spell Combat also lets you buff yourself and still attack in one round so it's nice on action economy.
Jadeite they hit really hard, and with their intelligence they can have a decent number of skills.
Shocking grasp still does a lot of damage. They don't have to do the most damage. They just have to do enough to make the bad guy cry, and they can do that.
Its the most elegant combination of magic and combat I have seen in a d20 rpg. They are not the best at anything, nor should they be since they have a varied skill set. They are still really good at both match and combat, just not the best.
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the ability to spam touch spells while full attacking while hasted.
Official FAQ: "Magus: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
No. Spell combat is its own kind of full-round action, and is not a full attack action."
Is it not? Huh. Guess I need to keep up with recent FAQs.
TAKE AN EXTRAPLANAR RACE AND MAGUS, AND U JUST BEAT THE GAME OF PATHFINDER!
such aasimar or tiefling
Hasted Assault gives them 1 minute/level Haste activated as a Swift Action, not for Spell Combat but everything else works.
If you can't use Hasted Assault or Haste, then 'zorro'ing Arcane Mark' (or any other spell) is always an option for extra attack.
Critical Strike also triggers an extra spell casting as swift action whenever you Crit, which can be within Spell Combat.
Arcane Pool Weapon Enhancement is a swift action but persists 1 minuter/level,
granting free attack bonus or equivalent weapon qualities, so you are unlikely to be unable to benefit from it somehow.
Arcane Accuracy grants INT to attack as Insight bonus, also stacking.
Dispelling Strike is nice (especially that it lasts 1 minute/level, and Spell Reflection is awesome (Immediate Action!).
Counterstrike is great for anti-caster tactics, they qualify for Fighter Feats, and have nice Saves.
As mentioned, the action economy is very nice. Lots of Swift Actions, but many of them persist for a decent duration,
so you can be activating different ones several rounds in a row if you want.
Personally, I alway allow Swift Actions to be taken as a Standard Action, so you could do several in 1 buff round,
but even without that house-rule they are very strong in that department.
Besides damaging spells, they get a good number of offensive/defensive buffs and utility spells,
and can much better deal with opponents not normally amenable to attck rolls.
And Spell Blending/Grt Spell Access are very nice, something like Calcific Touch is great for Maguses.
(Critting on DEX damage is not nice)
Arcane Accuracy: Spend a swift action to add your intelligence modifier to all attack rolls.
At later levels: Spend a swift action to make all your melee attacks target touch AC
Compared to alchemists, bards and inquisitors, the magus seems rather weak. He has a medium BAB and no good way to increase it. There's an arcana that let's him add his intelligence bonus but that one uses a swift action and is also rather costly. He can also increase his weapons enhancement bonus, but he can't raise it over +5.
With the limitation of haste, zorroing Arcane Marks doesn't seem that good, either. Shocking Grasp seems impressive till you meet an archer or charger. Blades Dash + Spell Combat is nice, but he's still limited to a one-handed weapon, so true pounce is probably better.I have to say, I'm unimpressed. So, what is great about the magus?
No way to increase BAB? What about True Strike, Bull's Strength, magic weapon built into the class (bladebound).
Or Haste.
They can deliver touch spells through melee attacks. They cast spells in the same round as a full attack, and they don't even have to cough up an attack to do it.
Not sure what your problem with a +5 cap on enhanced weapons. Every other class suffers the same penalty.
Can a Magus outdamage a fighter? At level one, maybe. At higher levels? Not unless the fighter is built wrong. Nothing's stopping you from playing a fighter.
To answer your question, a Magus is (arguably) about as close as PF comes to a Jedi.
The magus is the only incarnation of a martial/arcane hybrid class that actually melds the two parts together with synergy. Why WotC never made something similar is mind-boggling.
The magus is the only incarnation of a martial/arcane hybrid class that actually melds the two parts together with synergy. Why WotC never made something similar is mind-boggling.
Duskblade is something similar.. There were quiet a few gish type base classes in 3.5 actually. Several variants that cast and wore armor and had 3/4 bab. Best not to compare to 3.5 on the forums though.
Compared to alchemists, bards and inquisitors, the magus seems rather weak. He has a medium BAB and no good way to increase it. There's an arcana that let's him add his intelligence bonus but that one uses a swift action and is also rather costly. He can also increase his weapons enhancement bonus, but he can't raise it over +5.
With the limitation of haste, zorroing Arcane Marks doesn't seem that good, either. Shocking Grasp seems impressive till you meet an archer or charger. Blades Dash + Spell Combat is nice, but he's still limited to a one-handed weapon, so true pounce is probably better.I have to say, I'm unimpressed. So, what is great about the magus?
They cheat. At first level the Magus can cast a spell and melee attack. At second level, that spell, if the range is touch, allows the Magus to make a second melee attack. (Note that Arcane Mark a 0 level touch spell, means that the Magus can have two melee attacks from level 2 on.)
The Arcane Pool also allows the Magus to add many of the properties to their sword. This also means that the Magus isn't spending money on his main weapon.
They cheat. At first level the Magus can cast a spell and melee attack. At second level, that spell, if the range is touch, allows the Magus to make a second melee attack. (Note that Arcane Mark a 0 level touch spell, means that the Magus can have two melee attacks from level 2 on.)
I can only imagine the power of someone who takes a -2 on their attacks to make 2 attacks in a round. Could only be worse if they got iteratives too!
Really though, its actually supposed to be very similar to two weapon fighting. Without the enhances they would be too far behind on hit to get past AC really.
The magus is the only incarnation of a martial/arcane hybrid class that actually melds the two parts together with synergy. Why WotC never made something similar is mind-boggling.Duskblade is something similar.. There were quiet a few gish type base classes in 3.5 actually. Several variants that cast and wore armor and had 3/4 bab. Best not to compare to 3.5 on the forums though.
That's why I mentioned "with synergy". All other martial/arcane hybrid classes and PrCs allowed either/or casting or weapon attacks, and none added any kind of non-spell self-buffs or special features like the magus does with the magus arcana.
Hahhahaha elven enough to glitter.
*tear
They're great skirmishers with all the burst damage and abilities to get in and out of fights. Stab someone and cast Vanish. Then appear behind your next victim and dispatch them with a shocking grasp spellstrike.
They're also fun. Ya know, the reason to play the game in the first place? Being an agile spellcaster that weaves magic into melee combat is pretty exciting and makes you feel awesome.
Though Dervish Dance is popular, there's a number of fun ways to build them. I personally wanted to make a whip magus or a cestus magus so I'm an arcane brawler of sorts.
Honestly the Magus and the Inquisitor are two sides of the same coin.
Both are 3/4 casters than can buff the crap out of themselves faster than any other class.
Compare Arcane Pool to Judgement (Justice+Destruction)
both are swift actions that enchance thier attacks beyond normal, work on everybody and last all combat long.
Both have Strong Fort/Will saves.
Both have badass spellists The Magus list is far more blasty/utility while the inquisitor list is Mostly Buff.
Both Fight best in Meduim Armor (the Inquis loses certain abilities for going heavier and the magus has to wait till 7 to get it)
Both Get heaps of skills.
Both are my favorite classes.
Particularly the Hexcrafter who does all the normal magus stuff but get access to HEXES. Slumber, Flight and Misfortune are POWERFUL options that while not being compatable with spell combat add a heap of versatility.
and
Witchunter Inquisitor who laugh at pally saves vs Magic.
Both are awesome classes cause they serve as Skillmonkey+Melee Badass at the same time cause they make action economy thier B!+ch.
Inquisitor is more durable.
Magus is more versatile.
Honestly the Magus and the Inquisitor are two sides of the same coin.
Both are 3/4 casters than can buff the crap out of themselves faster than any other class.
Compare Arcane Pool to Judgement (Justice+Destruction)
both are swift actions that enchance thier attacks beyond normal, work on everybody and last all combat long.Both have Strong Fort/Will saves.
Both have badass spellists The Magus list is far more blasty/utility while the inquisitor list is Mostly Buff.
Both Fight best in Meduim Armor (the Inquis loses certain abilities for going heavier and the magus has to wait till 7 to get it)
Both Get heaps of skills.
Both are my favorite classes.
Particularly the Hexcrafter who does all the normal magus stuff but get access to HEXES. Slumber, Flight and Misfortune are POWERFUL options that while not being compatable with spell combat add a heap of versatility.
and
Witchunter Inquisitor who laugh at pally saves vs Magic.Both are awesome classes cause they serve as Skillmonkey+Melee Badass at the same time cause they make action economy thier B!+ch.
Inquisitor is more durable.
Magus is more versatile.
Huh, I never really thought of the Inquisitor in that light. I always thought of it as a "watered" down Paladin. I think I'll go over the class again.
Huh, I never really thought of the Inquisitor in that light. I always thought of it as a "watered" down Paladin. I think I'll go over the class again.Honestly the Magus and the Inquisitor are two sides of the same coin.
Both are 3/4 casters than can buff the crap out of themselves faster than any other class.
Compare Arcane Pool to Judgement (Justice+Destruction)
both are swift actions that enchance thier attacks beyond normal, work on everybody and last all combat long.Both have Strong Fort/Will saves.
Both have badass spellists The Magus list is far more blasty/utility while the inquisitor list is Mostly Buff.
Both Fight best in Meduim Armor (the Inquis loses certain abilities for going heavier and the magus has to wait till 7 to get it)
Both Get heaps of skills.
Both are my favorite classes.
Particularly the Hexcrafter who does all the normal magus stuff but get access to HEXES. Slumber, Flight and Misfortune are POWERFUL options that while not being compatable with spell combat add a heap of versatility.
and
Witchunter Inquisitor who laugh at pally saves vs Magic.Both are awesome classes cause they serve as Skillmonkey+Melee Badass at the same time cause they make action economy thier B!+ch.
Inquisitor is more durable.
Magus is more versatile.
Check out this Avatar. I was playing Grimm in Council of thieves and he ruled combat. Fought 1h+shield non TWF.
Managed rescources well. Stood next to the party tower shield fighter with a 30 AC (thanks to shieldwall)and outdid him on damage nearly all the time (thanks BANE)
Would pair up with the party Urban Ranger and Stealth better than her (thanks to invis+stealth synergy)
Grimm only failed ONE save in 8 whole levels of play.
Grimm used his Tactics power to make sure the party wizard always went first.
Grimm had whatever combat feat he wanted on tap thanks to Student of War domain power.
Yep Inquisitors are pretty much a one man army. IN MELEE.
My ranger Varrel is just as awesome because he chooses how the fight goes. Nowhere near as tough, but his burst damage is way higher. And he can fly, and he can Save or Sleep encounters without a single spell used. And he can buff the party and fight at the same time.
Two different flavors of awesome
oh,
simple answer to why a magus is awesome.
Go to youtube and watch the trailer for Dragonage 2.
I win. ;)
thematically yes. Seemed to blend fighting with spells to me.
A staff magus in that case.
spells cast?
Lightning bolt, infernal healing.
used arcane pool to give the staff flaming property.
dunno about the whole rip the arms off bit at the end. I actually finished the game and never saw that spell become available.
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I would hardly call the magus more versatile than the inquisitor. Especially those based on Shocking Grasp are pretty much one trick ponies.
I'd forgotten about the Hexcrafter. Yes, he's nice, but that has more to do with hexes being kind of broken.
Arcane Accuracy is a nice boost, but costly and uses up your swift actions, so it can't be combined with things like Arcane Strike.
I'm not saying that the ability to enhancements on a weapon isn't useful. But it doesn't give you a better chance to hit things once everyone else has a +5 weapon, too.
As for True Strike: Gaining +18 on your first iterative isn't bad. But you also take a -2 on all other attacks and get no extra attack from haste. It's still useful for combat maneuvers.
The ability to cast a spell and attack in the same round becomes much less impressive if you have 1. a hard time actually hitting and 2. not much of an impact unless you channel touch spells.
And even your intensified empowered maximized shocking grasp critical will have to deal with Spell Resistance.
shocking grasp with elemental spell feat are not one trick ponies.
you dont call a fighter a one trick ponie just because he can only do damage with his weapons.
a magus can decide to cast web/black tentacles/grease/.... and a whole lot more when they need it.
a bladebound magus gets a free intelegent weapon to boot making alot of its money to go to other enhancing gear
its all fun and games if you always can do alot of damage and its nice to see a goblin slit in half because you did 5 times its HP in damage.
but you dont wack a giant in one strike! a magus can! he can burst damage so hard you can cut down the hard foes just as fast as the weaker one's just becazuse you decide when to use your high damage spells.
just consider casting 2 shocking grasp each turn as you got spell perfection and can use hasten metamagic feat for free!
i love playing a magus!
Versatility difference comes to spellist.
Can the inquisitor Cast Glitterdust?
Vanish?
Fly?
Invisibility?
Move+Full Attack (Bladed Dash)
Cast Blasty Spells?
Summon Communal Mounts?
Serrens Armor Lock is Awesome!
Control the Battlefield with Web
Float through Barriers (Gaseous Form)
Also a Inquisitor can't get more free spells via Pearls of Power or Spell Recall.
Inquisitor IS a better melee than a Magus
but The magus still rocks melee hard, can buff allies simultaneously fighting, (full attack+haste for example)
and can solve problems outside of combat easier.
'Hey buddy, can you cast BLEND and Fly up to that 3rd story building boarded up room over this crowd and scope it out? At 5th level?
Hexcrafter: Sure.
Inquisitor: Get Bent.
Actually the Inquisitor does get Invisibility and vanish.
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Play it for the role playing, not the mechanics.
Thank you for your highly original and very useful addition to the discussion.
Inquisitor does have Invisibility, and Greater Invisibility.
There are "blasty" Inquisitor spells.
Inquisitor has many swift action spells.
There a tons of Debuffs like Armor Lock.
The Inquisitor has tons of buffs.
The Inquisitor can heal, and remove conditions.
The Inquisitor casts in fullplate.
That's what I get for posting on the run.
Anyway for seeing why Magus rocks? Play it and see. As I said, the Hexcrafter is particularly strong at combining burst damage with debuff.Check out the guide.
Walter's guide to the magus is sound, but the builds could be stronger. His advice on spell selection is great.
The way I see it
Bard: decent melee, skill monkey, BEST PARTY BUFFER.
Inquisitor: BRINGS THE PAIN in melee if done right, ok skill monkey, pretty damn selfish buffer If he wants to be awesome in combat. Good sneak.
Magus: Best burst damage BAR NONE when he tries, decent melee+lay down party buff or battle control. Good Skill monkey (particularly with Knowledges because of High INT mod). Can be a caster trouble shooter. Extra spell endurance via pearls which Bards/Inquisitors can't use.
All 3 are different shades of awesome.
Btw I can only speak for normal magus, Hexcrafter and Staff magus. Haven't played the others yet.
Only played a Witchunter Inquisitor. Had a blast.
Classes that bring as much to the table as these are why I don't play fighters anymore...
Compared to alchemists, bards and inquisitors, the magus seems rather weak. He has a medium BAB and no good way to increase it. There's an arcana that let's him add his intelligence bonus but that one uses a swift action and is also rather costly. He can also increase his weapons enhancement bonus, but he can't raise it over +5.
With the limitation of haste, zorroing Arcane Marks doesn't seem that good, either. Shocking Grasp seems impressive till you meet an archer or charger. Blades Dash + Spell Combat is nice, but he's still limited to a one-handed weapon, so true pounce is probably better.I have to say, I'm unimpressed. So, what is great about the magus?
For me just one thing: Magus is the character i always want to play (if you read the sorcerer from 3.0 PHB)
The magus is the Real sorcerer (alas Magus in latin means sorcerer)
They cheat. At first level the Magus can cast a spell and melee attack. At second level, that spell, if the range is touch, allows the Magus to make a second melee attack. (Note that Arcane Mark a 0 level touch spell, means that the Magus can have two melee attacks from level 2 on.)I can only imagine the power of someone who takes a -2 on their attacks to make 2 attacks in a round. Could only be worse if they got iteratives too!
Really though, its actually supposed to be very similar to two weapon fighting. Without the enhances they would be too far behind on hit to get past AC really.
Except that two weapon fighting requires a Dex of 15, and Magus doesn't. Plus if you use an attack touch spell, you are getting a third attack. You don't have to have two enchanted weapons, (or even one) because those attacks are all with the same weapon. It is a big improvement over two weapon fighting.
the ability to spam touch spells while full attacking while hasted.Official FAQ: "Magus: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
No. Spell combat is its own kind of full-round action, and is not a full attack action."
I am not a big fan of granting a class 2 or 3 bonus attacks per round but I find it odd not to grant an extra attack for a haste or a speed weapon since you basically make a full attack with that weapon except in name, on one hand giving a bunch of extra's and then taking away the 'basic' options, I wonder whether that is a RAW or RAI motivated answer.
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Warlock: STR Ranger's Guide to the Hexcrafter.
Yes, it certainly helps the magus if you ignore rules like 'no PA on touch attacks'.
Concerning Spell Combat plus Spellstrike with Cantrips, it should be compared with something like this:
Wild Fighting (Ex): At 2nd level, even when not raging, wild ragers often fight with reckless, savage abandon. A wild rager using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at her highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of her next turn, however, she takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and –4 penalty to AC. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
It should also be noted, that Spell Combat has a significant chance of failure, at least at lower levels. To cast Arcane Mark defensively, you need to succeed on a DC 15 concentration check. So a 2nd level magus has a pretty good chance on using a full round action to make one attack with a -2 penalty.
Also, TWF is usually a bad option unless you have significant damage bonuses which a Arcane Mark spamming magus usually lacks.
Jealous much? :)